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07/02/2008 02:45:08 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by scalvert:
The net effect would be to desaturate one part of the photo relative to the rest. Still a DQ IMO. |
???! Now that's an interesting take on it. |
"I'll be voting DQ for any attempt to artificially isolate the color in post processing." I can't speak for the others, but as an obvious attempt to skirt the rules, it would get a DQ from me. |
Well then, the rules aren't written very clearly. They should be written to disallow desaturation and saturation increases. As it's written now a user should be allowed to boost saturation in PP without any concern of DQ. |
Yes, this is my point...
R.
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07/02/2008 02:50:04 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I am so so sorry guys that I have become a pain in the arse, I even feel like a pain in the arse to myself right now.
I am even worried about Dodge and Burn as it darkens and lightens.
I think that the SC is going to have a horribly horrid time with this challenge |
You're not alone here. I'm usually pretty confident about these things and yet *I'm* confused by this as well. I mean, I have a good grasp on ONE thing: take a picture straight from camera and submit it and I'll be fine. This, I assume, is what these very helpful "stick to the spirit of the rules" commenters are pointing out.
I wish it were that simple... But it isn't.
The rule, as written, plus Shannon's comments, have the net effect of basically bringing into doubt ANY sort of color adjustment applied to the image at all. And that makes it scary. Nobody wants an inadvertent DQ, nobody wants to be pegged as someone who was trying to "skirt the rules", but why (Oh, WHY?) was this set as an ADVANCED challenge when it's effectively, with this special rule, much closer to a basic challenge?
R.
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07/02/2008 03:10:11 PM · #53 |
| I don't understand why this should be so difficult to grasp. "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!" So sataurate, desaturate, change colors, whatever... just don't do it selectively. The point of the challenge is to have a point of color, and it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you could create it in Photoshop. |
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07/02/2008 03:10:34 PM · #54 |
I just did a HDR and tone mapped my shot and I am unsure if that is even allowed, as you are using the same shot but different exposures and it makes it darker, which I think would make that illegal to use as well.
I think that Landon should weigh in on this to be honest, it was not made up by the SC and the rules where not made up by them either, so they are scrambling as much as us right now. I am sure Scarvlet has run to the hills screaming never to be seen again! |
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07/02/2008 03:18:17 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
So sataurate, desaturate, change colors, whatever... just don't do it selectively. |
arkkkkkkkk now I am contimplating running to the hills over this contridiction to your earlier posts |
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07/02/2008 03:19:57 PM · #56 |
| Shoot something for Weathered. :-/ |
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07/02/2008 03:22:02 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Shoot something for Weathered. :-/ |
lol, you are lovely!! And even though I have been a pain in the arse, you have stuck through this thread all by yourself, so kudos to you
actually I am going to do this challenge and shoot a swan on water. then it will be black and white. Phew,,,oh wait , is white a colour LOL |
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07/02/2008 03:23:43 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by JustinM:
As long as people play with the spirit of the rule and maybe not the letter things would go a lot better. who knows? |
Stop being sensible! |
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07/02/2008 03:27:30 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I don't understand why this should be so difficult to grasp. "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!" So sataurate, desaturate, change colors, whatever... just don't do it selectively. The point of the challenge is to have a point of color, and it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you could create it in Photoshop. |
Shannon, don't you GET it?
In our NORMAL, everyday processing, we change the relative saturation of different colors to make the image look right, or even natural sometimes; for example, I frequently have to desaturate yellows on late-afternoon landscape shots with grass in them, because the green looks to vibrant to be natural if I don't.
Now we all UNDERSTAND that the point of this challenge is to find something that pops out by reason of its color, NATURALLY. We're not taking exception to that, we really aren't. What's confusing us is whether it's permitted to do our normal, routine, color-adjustment-to-suit-our-personal-tastes type processing if it does not have the effect of artificially enhancing the particular subject that is supposed to be isolated. A lot of use the strangely-named 'selective color" adjustment layer to monkey with overall color balance between light and dark areas, for instance.
And now we scared that if we do this perfectly routine color adjusting with these tools we may run afoul of the law. it's not a matter of wanting to push the challenge envelope, okay?
R.
Message edited by author 2008-07-02 15:27:58.
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07/02/2008 03:30:51 PM · #60 |
| even shadows and highlights can change the colours , dodge and burn can make it darker or lighter or it pumps up a colour, I just do nto know what tools we can use and I am scared poopless of making another mistake |
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07/02/2008 03:32:11 PM · #61 |
| 95+% of us won't have to worry about it much. As long as we don't do anything abbynormal, like desaturate the red channel or up the sat on the yellow channel to highlight our single point of color, we'll be fine. Should you think you'll be in the top 5, though, you definitely need to make sure you get the whole issue clarified. :-) |
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07/02/2008 03:46:40 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Seems simple enough: "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!"
My personal interpretation is that this challenge is similar to B&W in Color, where the whole point is to tackle the color problem in the scene rather than Photoshop. With that in mind, I'll be voting DQ for any attempt to artificially isolate the color in post processing. That would include partial desaturation and even desaturating entire color channels since either is a "sort" of selective desaturation. Instead of trying to figure out ways to skirt the desaturation restriction, you should be trying to find an appropriate scene to capture! |
What about the other "textbook" ways to draw your eyes to one part of the picture, such as dodging/burning, selective sharpening/softening, painting white and black on a soft light layer etc? Legal IYO or no? |
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07/02/2008 03:49:08 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
95+% of us won't have to worry about it much. As long as we don't do anything abbynormal, like desaturate the red channel or up the sat on the yellow channel to highlight our single point of color, we'll be fine. Should you think you'll be in the top 5, though, you definitely need to make sure you get the whole issue clarified. :-) |
I'm all right then lol. |
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07/02/2008 03:50:48 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
95+% of us won't have to worry about it much. As long as we don't do anything abbynormal, like desaturate the red channel or up the sat on the yellow channel to highlight our single point of color, we'll be fine. Should you think you'll be in the top 5, though, you definitely need to make sure you get the whole issue clarified. :-) |
The way the special rules for this are written, I should be able to boost saturation in the blues if needed to make the sky pop a little more, or boost the yellows to make a flower more vivid. That is NOT desaturation. However, according to the statement made by Scalvert earlier, his interpretation of the rules conflicts with what's written.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
you can artificially enhance your color in the OTHER direction, of course, by choosing the desired element,s electing for it, and amping UP the color. |
The net effect would be to desaturate one part of the photo relative to the rest. Still a DQ IMO. |
I understand the overall concern; preventing someone from desaturating all but one element to meet the challenge. However, the rules should not be ambiguous and rewritten on the fly in matters of DQ'ing a challenge entry. |
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07/02/2008 03:58:18 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I should be able to boost saturation in the blues if needed to make the sky pop a little more, or boost the yellows to make a flower more vivid. That is NOT desaturation. However, according to the statement made by Scalvert earlier, his interpretation of the rules conflicts with what's written. |
Read what Bear posted again: "...if you preset your camera in one of the more muted modes, then you can isolate-by-saturating and (apparently) skirt this issue altogether. It's not in the spirit of the challenge..." I responded that the net effect would be selective desaturation and that I, personally, would vote DQ for the obvious attempt to flaunt the rules. |
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07/02/2008 04:07:31 PM · #66 |
Read what Bear posted again: "...if you preset your camera in one of the more muted modes, then you can isolate-by-saturating and (apparently) skirt this issue altogether. It's not in the spirit of the challenge..." I responded that the net effect would be selective desaturation and that I, personally, would vote DQ for the obvious attempt to flaunt the rules.
So having read this thread it appears that this is really an out of Camera minimal editing challenge, as long as your camera is set to a standard parameter for color and not a saturated parameter.
So lets get out there and shoot some color.
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07/02/2008 04:09:31 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by BrianR:
So having read this thread it appears that this is really an out of Camera minimal editing challenge... |
No it's not. "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!" Otherwise, it's Advanced Editing business-as-usual. |
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07/02/2008 04:11:16 PM · #68 |
I am sending you a bottle of Gin Scal!!
anyways, I sent in my photo with the exact steps (even remembered to write them down) and see what happenes. Hopefully will get a reply fairly soon so i can reshoot if need be |
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07/02/2008 04:17:01 PM · #69 |
Hmm, wonders if this challenge was better for basic editing?
shannon, can you have a quick look at the question I posed you 2 (of my) posts ago, and give an opinion for my (and everyone else's) benefit please? |
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07/02/2008 04:17:43 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I am sending you a bottle of Gin Scal!! |
I think we all need the gin after trying to get our heads around this lol. |
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07/02/2008 04:19:03 PM · #71 |
| Nah, ours is laced with valium. |
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07/02/2008 04:23:11 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by BrianR:
So having read this thread it appears that this is really an out of Camera minimal editing challenge... |
No it's not. "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!" Otherwise, it's Advanced Editing business-as-usual. |
Now why didn't you say say this in the beginning.  HA HA
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07/02/2008 06:31:58 PM · #73 |
Has anybody thought of using a very popular thing called LIGHT?
Just Point it and Shoot it.
Lights of all types Flash/Strobe/Snoot/Laser/Flashlight/Candle/Sunlight, shined even through colored gels and films. Or bing out some colored lights. The placement of light can add interesting effects, too.
Just make a pinhole (or any shape) in some cardboard (or other translucent material) and shine a light through it.
No need to get boggled down by the vagueries of rule interpretation. |
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07/02/2008 07:22:43 PM · #74 |
I guess the fact that I am not a photographer or a processor or a computer guru or even an artist gives me an edge on this one.
When I read the challenge description I thought of many possibilities (too bad I don't own a camera and I have no talent) :)
IMHO this is a simple task...find something, that naturally occurs, that is different from it's surroundings by color. (I am singing the song from Seasame Street...which one is not like the others?) I would be perfectly happy to see 300 entries of yellow frogs on green lilly pads...well maybe not, but you get my meaning.
White (yes it's a color) flower against a red-limestone wall.
Red ball floating in a pool.
Brown rock in a green field.
Just my thoughts.
Art speaks differently to different people.
Something that doesn't fit because of it's point of color differing from it's surroundings. |
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07/03/2008 12:42:56 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
No it's not. "No sort of selective desaturation allowed!" Otherwise, it's Advanced Editing business-as-usual. |
Is it safe to assume I can desaturate or saturate the entire image as long as I don't isolate one portion or color? For example, I am allowed to up the saturation in my RAW conversion tool as long as the whole image is affected.
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