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03/06/2008 04:03:07 PM · #26 |
One of the things I really like about how the challenges here work is that no matter where one is on the Journey to Photographic Excellence, one can improve one's own score and feel good.
I am, in a sense, competing against myself... not against all of the folks who ribbon. If my score is improving, for the most part, then I feel like I'm getting better. I think even the frequent ribbon-winners and even the brown-ribbon winners can say the same thing.
When looking at it from this point of view, the newbies and the oldies as well as the professionals and amateurs can all use the same contest.
I also can learn by looking at the ribbon winners' photos and seeing what made them win. Incorporating the photos of higher scores with the photos of lower scores is training me to see what I like and don't like about each and allowing me to put that to work in my own photos.
If I had to compete only with people in my same range, then I don't think I'd learn as much.
BUT, it was an interesting idea to consider and I'm glad you brought it up, OP.
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03/06/2008 04:07:58 PM · #27 |
Not trying to diss the idea but there are a couple of recurring problems here.
1) if you say a challenge is only open to someone who joined in the last 6 months, then if the next Superstar happens to sign up, they still pick up a ribbon, and a novice still feels they never had a hope.
2) If you say the challenge is only open to people who have an average score of say less than 5 (at time of posting) then I'm not sure who you are helping or indeed who would be queuing up to vote.
While people would still get to win and would feel good at having a ribbon - has it actually helped them in the long run? There is surely a danger that they have not come up to the Ribbon - so much as it has come down to them . .
Besides - scoring and great photo's can often be surprisingly different :- )
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03/06/2008 04:10:37 PM · #28 |
| Iâm new and I want to compete with the best. |
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03/06/2008 05:31:22 PM · #29 |
Good News - Hope for newbies - Stats from  goodman
Goodman has more ribbons than almost everyone on this site. If you look at her progress from when she started to now, the improvement is inspirational. I think the thing to do and what I did was too not worry about where you place at the beginning. When I started I picked personal goals, first was try to break a 6 score then 6.25, etc. I thought of it more as entering a long distance race, and continually trying to improve my time, rather then keep up with those who have been training and playing for a few years. There are ways to learn that will really help you besides getting comments and finishing well in the weekly challenges. I look at tons of images to find little gems and photographers who inspire me by either what they see or how they succeed in their vision, continue to follow their work. I have looked at over 700 images in the last two days alone. Commenting on images that I like, and putting into words what pleases me about a photo, helps me look for those positives in my own compositions. Maybe these will give you ideas to help improve. Don't worry about the scores too much. I just went from a personal best(7.6+) to a 5.1 with only one comment. I like both shots equally, so you have to enter what you like too. :) |
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03/06/2008 08:39:05 PM · #30 |
Many of the newbies don't seem to stick around very long. Or if they do they stop competing. They will enter a couple of challenges, do poorly and then never enter again. I've been looking at a lot of register user profiles and this is extremely common. Perhaps having a novice challenge would encourage them to stick around.
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03/06/2008 09:04:00 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Moose408:
Many of the newbies don't seem to stick around very long. Or if they do they stop competing. They will enter a couple of challenges, do poorly and then never enter again. I've been looking at a lot of register user profiles and this is extremely common. Perhaps having a novice challenge would encourage them to stick around. |
I doubt having separate challenges will improve the scores. |
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03/06/2008 09:09:29 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
When you join, I think and belive that you get this HUGE crash course on photogrpahy.
I wasnt thegreatest of photographers, never have been never will be, but I am sure as hell better than I was when I started here.
You learn so so so much from all the experts, the tutorials, the forums and looking at amazing photos and bad photos, it is never ending. And for that, priceless |
WELL SAID!! HEAR HEAR!! |
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03/06/2008 09:13:38 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Moose408:
Many of the newbies don't seem to stick around very long. Or if they do they stop competing. They will enter a couple of challenges, do poorly and then never enter again. I've been looking at a lot of register user profiles and this is extremely common. Perhaps having a novice challenge would encourage them to stick around. |
I think this is an extremely common phenomenon at all websites which offer free registration -- I've "faded away" from other photography sites which didn't hold my interest as well. As will all volunteer organizations, there are some people who stay seemingly forever, some who last a few months to a couple of years, those who last weeks to months, and some who try it once or twice and leave.
People complain now about Free Study challenges over 400 entries -- what if even a small fraction of the 60,000 or so "newbies" who have registered had stayed ... |
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03/07/2008 08:46:01 AM · #34 |
| My first two post were nearly six months apart. Not for lack of desire, just that life gets in the way. |
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03/07/2008 02:18:06 PM · #35 |
| Why not challenges for those who have more of the point and shoot type cameras like me. I don't have full manual control. Shutterlag sucks badly. I can't do an 8 second nighttime shot or 1/1000 of a second shutter speed to capture water droplets in flight with crystal clarity. Maybe their should be a division of challenges but it should be based on your equipment. Heck I don't even have photoshop. I use paint.net freeware. |
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03/07/2008 02:21:01 PM · #36 |
emphasis added...
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Why not challenges for those who have more of the point and shoot type cameras like me. ... |
You mean this camera? |
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03/07/2008 02:27:01 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Why not challenges for those who have more of the point and shoot type cameras like me. I don't have full manual control. Shutterlag sucks badly. I can't do an 8 second nighttime shot or 1/1000 of a second shutter speed to capture water droplets in flight with crystal clarity. Maybe their should be a division of challenges but it should be based on your equipment. Heck I don't even have photoshop. I use paint.net freeware. |
 joey lawrence achieved amazing results with a 1.3 mp camera, if memory serves... I have a 40D and I still suck.
I don't agree with devisions in the site. I joined knowing who I will be competing against. I long for the day I can have my name on the front page cause I dueled it out with the best and came out on top.
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03/07/2008 02:42:42 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Why not challenges for those who have more of the point and shoot type cameras like me. I don't have full manual control. Shutterlag sucks badly. I can't do an 8 second nighttime shot or 1/1000 of a second shutter speed to capture water droplets in flight with crystal clarity. Maybe their should be a division of challenges but it should be based on your equipment. Heck I don't even have photoshop. I use paint.net freeware. |
My highest scoring photo here wasn't with my DSLR, it's with my p&s, a little, cheap fixed lens (no zoom at all) canon camera.
Granted a fair bit of pp to bring it out but I'm still using photoshop 7. Haven't upgraded in a long long time. |
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03/07/2008 03:07:56 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Heck I don't even have photoshop. I use paint.net freeware. |
I have never used paint.net but I do use Gimp. If you have not ever used Gimp
I suggest you give it a try. This is just one more product brought to you by the
guys at the GNU Project which is Open Source free
software for everyone. This project has been around since before I got into computers
in the early 90's and has really gained momentum in the last few years. Gimp is
a near clone of Photoshop with items having different names. You can in most cases
use a Photoshop tutorial with Gimp.
Linc
Message edited by author 2008-03-07 15:09:35. |
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03/07/2008 04:13:40 PM · #40 |
I know I was extremely happy when I placed 6/344 in the fruits and vegetable challenge because of the sheer quantity and quanlity of the entries and perhaps moreso then getting my ribbon because I know there was no way in hell I would have ribboned if all the profilic ribboners had decided to compete.
Believe me, success is sweeter when the fight is tougher..
Same with the equipment issue. When your 4 mp p&s does better then the Dslrs --> :D |
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03/07/2008 04:15:28 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Siggav:
My highest scoring photo here wasn't with my DSLR, it's with my p&s, a little, cheap fixed lens (no zoom at all) canon camera. |
Two out of my top three were taken with my Olympus (2MP) ... ;-)
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03/11/2008 09:07:38 AM · #42 |
My point wasn't that you can't take good pictures with a point and shoot. You can but it's alot harder to get exactly what you want if you don't have full control. I may not produce better results scorewise neccesarily with better equipment but at least the playing field would be equalized somewhat. They don't call it better equipment for nothing. There is a definite reason. It is Better. DSLR's have more capabilities and thus more avenues for creativity than your average point and shoot which are limited by their lack of exposure control,shutter lag, etc.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
emphasis added...
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Why not challenges for those who have more of the point and shoot type cameras like me. ... |
You mean this camera? |
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03/11/2008 09:35:33 AM · #43 |
Here is an idea I have for this type of situation.
When you first join as a registered user you would be entitled to enter 5 "newbie challengesâ that would only be eligible for fellow newbie's that have yet to complete 5 newbie challenges.
If you choose you may forgo these newbie challenges if you feel your skill level is above the newbie challenges or for whatever reason you choose.
Once you have entered 5 newbie challenges you can then be eligible to enter normal challenges. If you finish in the top ten of these newbie challenges you can then automatically progress to normal challenges and then became ineligible to enter a newbie challenge.
Probably the best way to run these newbie challenges would be as free studies that are open until a maximum of 100 entries are received. This would help cater for the nature of a rolling intake of newbieâs to the site.
Please feel free to rip this apart as it just my thoughts on how to best initiate new members to the site.
Message edited by author 2008-03-11 09:35:58. |
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03/11/2008 11:09:18 PM · #44 |
I found the site through a friend who forewarned me about the sort of comments that I may receive (e.g. constructive vs upsetting) I came into the site hoping for some good feedback to improve on my images for myself and hopefully those around me, knowing I'd have to disregard some comments that weren't so encouraging.
With that said, I know another individual who didn't get the same advice, entered a couple challenges, got feedback that wasn't so nice, and was told something along the lines of if you don't like it don't come back.
Perhaps if there was a forum for individuals who just joined the site (whether new to photography or not) other people commenting wouldn't be so rude when leaving feedback. Perhaps they would leave comments that were both encouraging as well as full of constructive criticism. |
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03/12/2008 06:37:22 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by SDW:
We have had the following Invitational challenges in the past.
Dreams: If I'm not mistaken it was members that had more comments given than received.
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Ooooh, can we have another one of those? I'd even qualify, lol. |
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03/15/2008 11:22:21 AM · #46 |
I'd like to see some competition limited to Compact cameras, the reason I say this is down to the fact some of us can't afford an SLR!
I know that many will say there's only so much you can rely on equipment and it's all down to prep and the photographer, but cummon, an EOS5D will wipe the floor with a cheaper compact. |
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03/15/2008 11:30:15 AM · #47 |
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03/15/2008 12:33:09 PM · #48 |
YES.....I am a newbie.....I am still in the lurking stage. There are so many great photos. Do I want a newbie challenge?? Not really. I expect my stuff will be...not so good... because I am so new at this but I hop to learn a lot. Post processing is new to me as well. What I want to do is learn from everyone.
BTW I like my new DSLR...now which way to I point this thing? ;).... I am learning everything. |
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03/15/2008 01:30:45 PM · #49 |
I don't compare myself to the ribbon winners. If I did that, I would give up quickly as well. I was a newbie when I joined only last August, and stuck around. I am mostly competing against myself. Sometimes I am not aiming for a high score at all, and I am looking for comments to tell me if I nailed the idea. Check out all the people with a list of goals on their profile page. They are mostly competing against their previous work.
Another idea. Rather than competing trying to win a competition, how about picking a member whose work you like, is better than you, but is at an attainable level. Try to match and beat that person on one stat.  Focuspoint, I'm on your tail! (Maybe. If I would quit with the shoehorns...)
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03/15/2008 01:35:26 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by dd1989:
I'd like to see some competition limited to Compact cameras, the reason I say this is down to the fact some of us can't afford an SLR! |
What would you consider a compact? There is a fuzzy line. My Canon S5 is considered a P&S on this site, but can produce very competitive results.
I have actually enjoyed throwing my S5 shots up against stuff done with better equipment. Now that I do have an SLR, I need to not always pick it up when shooting for a challenge.
I think Joey, Scalvert and DrAchoo would still kick our butts if we gave them a Barbie GlamCam
Message edited by author 2008-03-15 13:42:04.
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