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 03/15/2008 03:33:20 PM · #51
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by dd1989:
I'd like to see some competition limited to Compact cameras, the reason I say this is down to the fact some of us can't afford an SLR!


What would you consider a compact? There is a fuzzy line. My Canon S5 is considered a P&S on this site, but can produce very competitive results.




Or indeed bubeltrubel with her powershot S3



or Giorgio


or eyewave


etc, etc . .

Lots of excellent shots from P&S cameras :- )
 03/15/2008 04:27:31 PM · #52
I don't consider the camera to be a severe limiting factor. I will agree there are some subjects that I have been able to get better shots of with the Rebel than with the S5, but part of getting good photos is knowing how to get the most out of your camera. I think a better camera gives someone an advantage in certain conditions, but not an unfair one.

I do appreciate the idea of trying to level the playing field, but there are so many variables, I think it would be impossible.
 03/15/2008 05:26:48 PM · #53
This has been a great thread to read. Having been really into photography for years and then out for 15 yrs and now back is very exciting. Part of the excitment is learning digital. You might say it's the same old stuff, but it's not. It's new in the way the the images are formed and processed and it's almost like shooting slide film, but not.

Ok, with that said I will tell you this, and some of the old timers may remember this. Back in the eighties Modern Photography ( I think or maybe Popular Phototgraphy Mag ) did a little test and gave 6 of the best photographers in the country point and shoot 35mm cameras and set them loose to produce whatever shots they wanted to. The results amazed me. The biggest part of shooting is understanding YOUR equipment and it's capabilities. What can it do? What can't it do? And then being CREATIVE from that point.

With that siad, everyone that thinks newbies can't compete is wrong. But everyone that thinks a P&S can compete side by side with an SLR in every competition is also wrong. They can compete in any competitions that can their minds and equipment can creatively get up to speed. So that might mean that long exposures are out of the question. Or maybe if it requires a BIG lens it's out.

SO my thought is to have a few challenges per month that are equipment challenges. ( this has sort of been said already ) A challenge that requires the use of only P&S and let's see what we get, pro or amateur. The amateur gets to see what the good shooters really know? OK, how about a challenge for 300mm and up only? Let the newbies see how bad some of us owning big lenses are, or how good? and if they want to get the lens they think they want. How about a single flash challenge, two flash, three or more? A challenge that requires the use of a reflector? A wide angle ( say 20mm or wider) challenge? These would all be learning challenges but NOT divided by so called pro or beginner status.

Just my thoughts.

03/15/2008 05:38:52 PM · #54
Two of my highest scores have been taken with the Canon A630, a P&S! And 2 of the other 3 were taken with a 6 megapixel DSLR. Oh, and the other was taken with a bridge camera, the FujiFilm Finepix 6900Z.

So, where is the argument about the equipment? It all depends on seeing and capturing an image, regardless of the camera type.

I seriously think that Newbie challenges are just a watered down token challenge, and the Ribbon is worthless. If you want to win, take the shot that has what DPC voters seek, and remember, PP is almost as important as the shot.

03/15/2008 06:33:45 PM · #55
Originally posted by wardmac:
This has been a great thread to read. Having been really into photography for years and then out for 15 yrs and now back is very exciting. Part of the excitment is learning digital. You might say it's the same old stuff, but it's not. It's new in the way the the images are formed and processed and it's almost like shooting slide film, but not.

Ok, with that said I will tell you this, and some of the old timers may remember this. Back in the eighties Modern Photography ( I think or maybe Popular Phototgraphy Mag ) did a little test and gave 6 of the best photographers in the country point and shoot 35mm cameras and set them loose to produce whatever shots they wanted to. The results amazed me. The biggest part of shooting is understanding YOUR equipment and it's capabilities. What can it do? What can't it do? And then being CREATIVE from that point.

With that siad, everyone that thinks newbies can't compete is wrong. But everyone that thinks a P&S can compete side by side with an SLR in every competition is also wrong. They can compete in any competitions that can their minds and equipment can creatively get up to speed. So that might mean that long exposures are out of the question. Or maybe if it requires a BIG lens it's out.

SO my thought is to have a few challenges per month that are equipment challenges. ( this has sort of been said already ) A challenge that requires the use of only P&S and let's see what we get, pro or amateur. The amateur gets to see what the good shooters really know? OK, how about a challenge for 300mm and up only? Let the newbies see how bad some of us owning big lenses are, or how good? and if they want to get the lens they think they want. How about a single flash challenge, two flash, three or more? A challenge that requires the use of a reflector? A wide angle ( say 20mm or wider) challenge? These would all be learning challenges but NOT divided by so called pro or beginner status.

Just my thoughts.


Love it. As extra challenges, these would be great.
 03/16/2008 12:19:33 PM · #56
Originally posted by Jedusi:
Originally posted by yospiff:
[quote=dd1989] I'd like to see some competition limited to Compact cameras, the reason I say this is down to the fact some of us can't afford an SLR!


What would you consider a compact? There is a fuzzy line. My Canon S5 is considered a P&S on this site, but can produce very competitive results.




Compact to me means - it fits in your back pocket ;)

03/16/2008 03:26:05 PM · #57
Hi everyone, another newbie posting:

I entered my first challenge in mid February with no intention of being competitive... give me a year or so (or 2...) and maybe. I knew how much talent was here beforehand, but like in sports, you need the challenge of a strong competitor to get better. A "newbie" challenge may help encourage some, but I would bet most (like me) would rather jump into the thick of it. As for P&S challenges, I don't believe the camera is the issue... real talent doesn't need state of the art gear. They're just expensive tools.

How about an extension of the basic editing requiring a "straight from camera" shot allowing only resizing?
 03/16/2008 03:32:21 PM · #58
Originally posted by fldave:
How about an extension of the basic editing requiring a "straight from camera" shot allowing only resizing?


I recall seeing a new type of challenge listed with those rules, but have not seen any challenges posted with it yet.
 03/16/2008 04:28:47 PM · #59
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by fldave:
How about an extension of the basic editing requiring a "straight from camera" shot allowing only resizing?


I recall seeing a new type of challenge listed with those rules, but have not seen any challenges posted with it yet.


Yospiff, we've had a couple under the minimal editing ruleset, I believe. The first was called "minimalism II". This was my entry... with a P&S :)



Eta; How about running one of the pairs of open challenges as P&S vs DSLR, just for fun?

Message edited by author 2008-03-16 16:34:30.
 03/16/2008 07:53:44 PM · #60
Originally posted by fldave:
Hi everyone, another newbie posting:

I entered my first challenge in mid February with no intention of being competitive... give me a year or so (or 2...) and maybe. I knew how much talent was here beforehand, but like in sports, you need the challenge of a strong competitor to get better. A "newbie" challenge may help encourage some, but I would bet most (like me) would rather jump into the thick of it. As for P&S challenges, I don't believe the camera is the issue... real talent doesn't need state of the art gear. They're just expensive tools.
How about an extension of the basic editing requiring a "straight from camera" shot allowing only resizing?


You don't think that interchangeable lenses, no shutterlag, better autofocus, adjustable iso settings, full manual control of exposure and a host of other features has no effect on the images you can achieve? If you think they are just expensive tools then try mowing your lawn with a pair of scissors. At least with effort this could be achieved. There is a reason that this expensive equipment is used. Flexibility. Creativity. Quality. Without the right equipment you are going to be limited in what can be achieved. Period. You can take the greatest pictures with a point and shoot but you will always be limited. The main reason they come out with new and better equipment is to minimize the limitations that the equipment places upon the creative mind of the photographer.
03/16/2008 10:21:05 PM · #61
Originally posted by dponlyme:

You don't think that interchangeable lenses, no shutterlag, better autofocus, adjustable iso settings, full manual control of exposure and a host of other features has no effect on the images you can achieve? If you think they are just expensive tools then try mowing your lawn with a pair of scissors. At least with effort this could be achieved. There is a reason that this expensive equipment is used. Flexibility. Creativity. Quality. Without the right equipment you are going to be limited in what can be achieved. Period. You can take the greatest pictures with a point and shoot but you will always be limited. The main reason they come out with new and better equipment is to minimize the limitations that the equipment places upon the creative mind of the photographer.


I didn't say high tech gear doesn't offer more possibility and flexibility... I am anxious to buy a DSLR myself! My thinking is this: I am a guitarist also - I would certainly prefer to play a modern $2000 guitar vs. a cheaply made $200 guitar, but I could still make the cheaper guitar sound good. But for a beginner or intermediate player, would a $2000 guitar make him/her sound like a pro? Not a chance! That takes time and lots of practice.

So I'm not saying that P&S and DSLR's are on a level playing field... I do know that Joey Lawrence / Dr. Achoo etc. using an inexpensive P&S would womp all over me, even if I was shooting a D3!

... and how did you know I mow my lawn with scissors?

Message edited by author 2008-03-16 22:33:37.
 03/19/2008 02:30:02 PM · #62

Originally posted by fldave:
[quote]... and how did you know I mow my lawn with scissors?


I've been watching you through the super huge 6x zoom on my fuji p&s. You could borrow my lawn mower if you want you know. At first I thought you were just taking macro's of insects or something.
 03/19/2008 02:39:10 PM · #63
I think all Newbies should have to crawl the gauntlet down the bus aisle on the way to the first away game of the season, suffer the atomic wedgie at the back of the bus, and finally be forced to defrost several bus windows with their naked, bloody bums.

Oh wait... that was high school hockey, and the coach called it team-building.
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