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08/25/2003 12:32:29 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
homoerotic? lol Ya know...they are BOTH ME! LOL
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Is Egoerotic a word? :)
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08/25/2003 12:35:53 PM · #27 |
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08/25/2003 12:44:29 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
BTW if someone could tell me why it indeed deserved the low scores i would like to hear it. |
Terry,
I added comments on the image for you. That's just what I saw when I viewed it and rated it. Wasn't here for the first one but I did think it was a better entry than this one for the reasons I mentioned. |
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08/25/2003 01:08:04 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Question - why are some people so easily led to "oh it doesn't matter" as the answer to everything? I've seen that on lots of threads lately. If it DOESNT MATTER, DONT PARTICIPATE. It 'matters' to me that I don't waste my time here and that I'm learning something. |
I couldn't agree more. Why NOT cultivate a debate?
Even if a post contains a little frustration (understandably?), why not vent it? After all, mav's frustration seems not directed at anyone. He wants to tackle it, that's all. There should be a place for it, IMO. |
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08/25/2003 01:14:01 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=34012
How did that manage SEVEN 1's?
There was a really decent article here posted about negative space.
//www.apogeephoto.com/mag1-3/mag1-3mf1.shtml
"Do you see the negative space is actually shapes? These shapes have substance or mass. This is important to remember. Negative space is not just the absence of something. It has weight and mass, and plays an important role in defining your subject."
I'm going to compare this to a shot by someone I'm pretty sure can handle me using him to compare:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=34029
Tim managed zero 1's and zero 2's despite shooting a shot that the negative space was an afterthought - a crop to show off negative space, rather than negative space used to define the image.
I don't leave copy-comments, but I did in this challenge. I think negative space should have a reason - a 'weight' as the author of the above article points out.
Disagree - explain?
And if you gave me a 1, I'd LOVE to know why...
M |
Sorry I can't help you Mavrik....I gave your shot a 9, and it was most definately one of my favorite shots!!!!
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08/25/2003 01:24:19 PM · #31 |
I don't think that a handfull of folks giving their opinions on a thread can explain why a shot does well or doesn't. There just isn't always a good reason. I think your shot (and especially Jon Lucas's) are good examples of the point that bruster was trying to make about his "blackbear at midnight" picture in another thread.
If you step outside normal, cliche photography and try something a little too modern or stylized or even abstract (although I think your pictures do this and bruster's doesn't necessarily) then you have to expect that some people aren't going to react well. Even if it were perfectly symmetrical and the silhouettes were black, I think you would still have low votes. Nevertheless, it is still something you might see hanging in a gallery.
This site is all about appealing to the masses, but that isn't the only goal to have. Remember that some very successful artists make tons of money off of pictures or paintings that most people wouldn't hang on their wall. |
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08/25/2003 01:44:57 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by indigo997:
I don't think that a handfull of folks giving their opinions on a thread can explain why a shot does well or doesn't. There just isn't always a good reason. I think your shot (and especially Jon Lucas's) are good examples of the point that bruster was trying to make about his "blackbear at midnight" picture in another thread.
If you step outside normal, cliche photography and try something a little too modern or stylized or even abstract (although I think your pictures do this and bruster's doesn't necessarily) then you have to expect that some people aren't going to react well. Even if it were perfectly symmetrical and the silhouettes were black, I think you would still have low votes. Nevertheless, it is still something you might see hanging in a gallery.
This site is all about appealing to the masses, but that isn't the only goal to have. Remember that some very successful artists make tons of money off of pictures or paintings that most people wouldn't hang on their wall. |
I think my sig quote is apt for this view in many ways. Just because many people dislike it does not mean something is automatically great art that people don't get. It could just be not very good. The 'you just don't understand me' defence gets used a lot for people not getting those who consider that they are doing avant garde/ boundary pushing photography.
I don't think this particular example is too modern, too stylised or abstract. It just has a lot of flaws that detract from it - maybe that doesn't make it a 1 in some minds, maybe it does in others.
I get the feeling that mav's main complaint is that he suspects he is being voted down due to people recognising him. This certainly does happen on occasion. Some voters dislike entries not being anonymous and directly penalise the score because of this. Just yet another axis on the personally defined 'bad' to 'good' scale of subjective value of a DPC entry.
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08/25/2003 01:57:58 PM · #33 |
You're right Gordon. My main complaint is that I chose this week to both:
1) submit a pic of me that's recognizable
and
2) comment negatively on a LOT of people's shots.
I was trying to stir up a debate over neg space but also find out if people could point to a definite reason for SO many 1's. I would think it was technical matter if I got more 2s, honestly. Like 7 1s, 10 2s - then I'd say "oh shit, I did a crappy picture." But my curve was fairly normal, if low (I understand) - except the 1s. :)
Thanks to all - I've learned all I need to from this. Feel free to continue, but I'm done.
M
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08/25/2003 02:33:34 PM · #34 |
Mav, please take this in a friendly way, but a problem I see here is that you have made some difinitive decisions about what you consider to be truths. For example, on my photo, you said, unequivocally, that my use of negative space was an afterthought. You didn't say that "in my opinion" I think this way. You seem to be assuming that others should have the same opinion. Sure, if everyone thought as you do you would not have gotten any 1's but, of course, that is not the way it is. There are three reasons why someone will give out a 1, they simply don't appreciate the photo based on what they know about photography, they are a troll and just want to be mean, or they made a mistake in their voting, maybe they thought that a 1 was the best. You probably won't ever know for sure. There you have it. Now you know the reasons, tons of people that have minds of their own voting on a photo they have never seen before. I admit I get curious about the votes sometimes too but then I think about the amazing crowd we have here from all over the world. How can they all "not" give me some low scores : )
T
Message edited by author 2003-08-25 14:35:17.
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08/25/2003 02:47:03 PM · #35 |
I didn't say it was great art. I just think that this particular idea, however well executed, isn't going to be a shot for the masses. Even if you shot it perfectly, lots of people would see it as just two large black blobs on white, and it would have limited appeal.
(However, I very well could imagine Jon Lucas's shot being blown up and hung in someone's loft in Boston.)
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