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08/14/2003 11:32:25 PM · #101 |
hmmm high end slrs at an extreme disadvantage? Hmmm doesn't make a lot of sense to me...unless of course the DiMAGE 7i is now a toy....hmmm let me see with the camera settings I can do my photo in b & w, sharpen it...oh the possibilities are endless. Only reason that this challenge would be a problem for anyone with a high end digital slr is if they have become addicted to post editing and don't know how to use their camera effectively.
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08/14/2003 11:45:39 PM · #102 |
Not true at all...most low-end cameras were designed to take shots for printing straight out of the camera, whereas DSLRs were designed to created a flexible 'digital negative' that is only truly satisfactory after post-processing. Saying that peopel don't know how to use their cameras if they must post-process is analogous to saying that someone is a bad driver if they can't drive their 5-speed sports car without shifting themselves. I've said it before and I'll say it again...workflow is very important, and the processing for a DSLR image is done outside of the camera rather than in it. To constrict processing outside of the camera is interfering with a necessary process for many people. I realise this is only one challenge, and yes I may be whining a bit, but I think John said it all above. We've made great strides with educating ourselves on this site, and a challenge such as this reinforces bad stereotypes. It is a step backwards in the ultimate goal of learning how to produce the best image you can. Constrain the topic but don't constrain the means.
Enough said...
Originally posted by OneSweetSin: hmmm high end slrs at an extreme disadvantage? Hmmm doesn't make a lot of sense to me...unless of course the DiMAGE 7i is now a toy....hmmm let me see with the camera settings I can do my photo in b & w, sharpen it...oh the possibilities are endless. Only reason that this challenge would be a problem for anyone with a high end digital slr is if they have become addicted to post editing and don't know how to use their camera effectively. |
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08/14/2003 11:50:49 PM · #103 |
Does anyone have any CHEESE to go with all this WHINE? |
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08/14/2003 11:52:49 PM · #104 |
Why not do like i did today...
Go out, take a few dozen photos, pick the one you like, resize it, enter it and quit complaining
It is one challenge out of over 100 that will happen in 2003, deal with it
And by the way, OneSweetSin, I will Have pepperjack please
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08/14/2003 11:55:39 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by rickhd13:
And by the way, OneSweetSin, I will Have pepperjack please |
LOL do you have any CRACKERS? I Fogot you can't have WHINE and cheese without the crackers. =o) |
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08/15/2003 12:13:15 AM · #106 |
To imply that my objections to this current topic (a denigration of the talents which we have worked so hard and carefully to cultivate) are 'whining' lead me to believe that you either don't respect the craft or don't respect others attempting to produce something better than what we typically see here. When someone rants about some minor crap nobody gets too upset, but when a few of us object to something symptomatic of a larger problem, we're labelled crybabies. Which is the bigger challenge - going along with something and saying nothing or trying to convince people not to?
Message edited by author 2003-08-15 00:14:47. |
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08/15/2003 12:37:54 AM · #107 |
It's one challenge, for crying out loud. Do it, or don't do it. In a couple of weeks, it will be archived and we can move on.
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08/15/2003 12:38:55 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by rickhd13:
And by the way, OneSweetSin, I will Have pepperjack please |
LOL do you have any CRACKERS? I Fogot you can't have WHINE and cheese without the crackers. =o) |
Ok.....now I'm hungry.....
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08/15/2003 11:35:46 AM · #109 |
Just to clear up a misconception that Im reading here about high end digital cameras (Im talking about true dslr's only- if you can see a live image on your LCD before taking a picture, your camera is not a true DSLR ) I copied this info from an article at DPReview. DSLR's are built to require post processing.
Excerpt from DPReview article:
Sharpening
By Phil Askey
Sharpening in a digital sense is the enhancing of edge detail. It is performed by a mathematical formula which is applied across the image. Put simply it enhances the visibility of a boundary between light and dark tones in an image.
In-camera sharpening
Most consumerdigital cameras will, as a part of normal image processing apply some level of sharpening, to counteract the effects of the interpolation of colours during the colour filter array decoding process (which will soften detail slightly). The problem with in-camera sharpening is that it increases the visibility of jaggies and can increase the visibility of other image artifacts.
Recently, digital cameras have allowed users to control the amount of sharpening applied to an image (menu option), the primary reason for this is the widespread use of image processing applications, the "digital darkroom" and the ability to control artifacts related to sharpening. Higher-end digital SLR's and other cameras which support RAW format don't apply any sharpening to the RAW image, this allows the user to decide on the level of sharpening when acquiring the image later.
Canon took a stance on sharpening with their new EOS-D30, the images straight out of the camera have almost no sharpening applied, this produces very clean, artifact free images which some may consider "soft" but the consensus of opinion has been that this is probably (at least for a digital SLR) more preferable as it gives you the option to sharpen the image later if required.
end of excerpt
Many point and shoot users dont realize this and seem to think the DSLR users are complaining. I think they just want people to be educated on how these cameras work. Im sure many users here dont even realize that you do not have a live LCD preview of your image as your taking a pic. Im not posting this as a complaint, just to help educate.
I have a consumer digital camera that I will use if I find a decent shot for this challenge. Again, this info is not against the challenge, or complaining. Just want the info out there, who knows, you may want to buy a DSLR yourself in the future.
Enjoy the challenge.
Message edited by author 2003-08-15 12:51:46.
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08/15/2003 01:25:08 PM · #110 |
Well, I'm not sure if I submit but when I saw the challenge details, my first thought was about the Contrast, saturation, sharpness and Color tone settings in my 10D
:)
don't argue, this is just a good challenge for a change...
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08/15/2003 01:28:23 PM · #111 |
When did one of anything signify a symptom of some bigger problem? As has been said already this is just one challenge. In no way does one challenge of no editing mean anything other then just that. Now if the challenges were to continue with no editing then we would have a problem. It takes more then one occurance to see any sort of trend. Why this has to get exagerated and blown out of proportion is beyond me. As some of you know I have been a strong proponent of unrestricted editing but I can also, and maybe even more so with that in mind, appreciate a challenge of no editing. What is it going to mean to me? Well I probably won't take a portrait oriented shot because I'm not sure I can rotate it afterwards, I will need to be careful of shots that might look a little flat in regards to dynamic range, and I will have to be extra careful in how I crop the image as I am taking the photo. Fortunately my camera has pretty good color saturation and accuracy or else I would probably be considering a more monocramatic image or go the other way and get as much color in the scene as possible. I see it as a challenge of knowing what your camera can and cannot do well. I'm pretty sure I will learn some new things from this challenge as well and have fun doing it. And BTW, I am still going to be out taking photos for a challenge. Photos that I can still do anything to outside of the challenge. Lighten up and try to have fun with this. I'm sure we will all still get some great shots.
T
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08/15/2003 01:38:41 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by timj351: Why this has to get exagerated and blown out of proportion is beyond me.
T |
Just a guess, but because it's too hard get a decent argument started over the definition of "Past" :)
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08/15/2003 06:04:51 PM · #113 |
If i just take a photo of anything, it will be in the past by the time voters vote on it. I bet they wont understand. *grumble grumble* voters suck
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08/15/2003 06:35:41 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by scab-lab:
Many point and shoot users dont realize this and seem to think the DSLR users are complaining.
Enjoy the challenge. |
Thank you I did not know this...
I wasn't thinking that it was complaints, just didn't understand what the issue was.. Dang I learn something every time I read another post on this site.
It's really wonderful.
I appreciate all the knowledge that is being passed along
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08/15/2003 07:50:51 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Konador: If i just take a photo of anything, it will be in the past by the time voters vote on it. I bet they wont understand. *grumble grumble* voters suck |
LOL. That's what I was thinking too. At least one person would understand!
BTW: I have just submitted a pretty good photo to the challenge that looks pretty bad. Looking back, I should have just taken it at 640x480 so I wouldn't have to feel the agony of not being able to sharpen it after I resize. Just a tip for those of you who have yet to take your photo. I might still try to change my submission if I have the time, but I doubt I will. |
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08/15/2003 08:09:13 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by JasonPR:
Originally posted by Konador: If i just take a photo of anything, it will be in the past by the time voters vote on it. I bet they wont understand. *grumble grumble* voters suck |
LOL. That's what I was thinking too. At least one person would understand!
BTW: I have just submitted a pretty good photo to the challenge that looks pretty bad. Looking back, I should have just taken it at 640x480 so I wouldn't have to feel the agony of not being able to sharpen it after I resize. Just a tip for those of you who have yet to take your photo. I might still try to change my submission if I have the time, but I doubt I will. |
I suppose, due to the fact that it takes time for light to travel across any distance, every phtot you ever took was of the past.
Ed
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08/15/2003 08:14:06 PM · #117 |
That also means that the past is still the future somewhere
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08/15/2003 08:15:49 PM · #118 |
hmm
advice i've always read is shoot at your highest rez and resize down .. adn that this gets you a better quality image than if you shoot at a lower res, partly because the resampling algorithms in most computer software is superior to that being done in camera.
but YMMV :)
Originally posted by JasonPR:
Originally posted by Konador: If i just take a photo of anything, it will be in the past by the time voters vote on it. I bet they wont understand. *grumble grumble* voters suck |
LOL. That's what I was thinking too. At least one person would understand!
BTW: I have just submitted a pretty good photo to the challenge that looks pretty bad. Looking back, I should have just taken it at 640x480 so I wouldn't have to feel the agony of not being able to sharpen it after I resize. Just a tip for those of you who have yet to take your photo. I might still try to change my submission if I have the time, but I doubt I will. |
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08/15/2003 08:28:09 PM · #119 |
DSLRs "support" the RAW format, but are they required to use it? Besides, DSLR ownsers are always telling point-and-shoot owners to do the best they can with the equiment they have -- that it's the photographer and not the equipment which makes the biggest difference. And I bet the optics on the DSLRs will compensate somewhat for the lack of built-in processing as well. |
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08/15/2003 08:30:34 PM · #120 |
Not really...you may interpret the light reflected from an object as the object, but it's actually just light. What you're photographing is in fact the light's condition at present.
Originally posted by Konador: That also means that the past is still the future somewhere |
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08/15/2003 09:31:03 PM · #121 |
someone using RAW has a greater advantage than someone shooting jpeg, as the nature of raw is that when you bring it from the card to the computer, you are required to adjust the curves and levels in software.
basically, if people shoot in RAW, they are exempt from the no post-processing constraints.
my camera has that ability but I am choosing to shoot in JPEG, so that my shot emerges into the computer just as the camera recorded it - with no other processing other than that done within the camera.
i dont know what people are complaining about, i get pics straight of my camera that i'm blown away by :).
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08/15/2003 09:35:47 PM · #122 |
'photographing' is 'using the medium of light to record the occurences reflective or transmissive phenomena, over fixed, discrete time intervals.'
the status transmission media itself, in most conventional photography, is considered less important than the objects or phenomena it has been reflected or transmitted from.
Originally posted by jimmythefish: Not really...you may interpret the light reflected from an object as the object, but it's actually just light. What you're photographing is in fact the light's condition at present.
Originally posted by Konador: That also means that the past is still the future somewhere |
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08/15/2003 09:38:49 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999: i dont know what people are complaining about, i get pics straight of my camera that i'm blown away by :). |
Couldn't agree with you more. |
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08/15/2003 09:49:51 PM · #124 |
yes, of course it is always best to shoot at your highest and resize down, when you can do so effectively using all the tools at your fingertips. With no processing, however, and just a simple resize in photoshop the image comes out a lot less sharp than if I took it in my camera at the smaller size.
BTW, what does YMMV stand for, I'm guessing you must something.
Originally posted by magnetic9999: hmm
advice i've always read is shoot at your highest rez and resize down .. adn that this gets you a better quality image than if you shoot at a lower res, partly because the resampling algorithms in most computer software is superior to that being done in camera.
but YMMV :)
Originally posted by JasonPR:
Originally posted by Konador: If i just take a photo of anything, it will be in the past by the time voters vote on it. I bet they wont understand. *grumble grumble* voters suck |
LOL. That's what I was thinking too. At least one person would understand!
BTW: I have just submitted a pretty good photo to the challenge that looks pretty bad. Looking back, I should have just taken it at 640x480 so I wouldn't have to feel the agony of not being able to sharpen it after I resize. Just a tip for those of you who have yet to take your photo. I might still try to change my submission if I have the time, but I doubt I will. |
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08/15/2003 10:47:58 PM · #125 |
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