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06/22/2007 04:06:08 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by justamistere:
2) Start putting the names of the TOP 3 voters at the top of each challenge.
I haven't voted much recently, but early on I realized the importance of it.
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How do you determine "top 3 voters" - there are many people who routinely vote 100% on any challenge they vote on. Another few who vote 100% on every challenge, come hell or high water. (One of the SC does this... scalvet? GeneralE? I'm not going to look it up right now.)
Originally posted by justamistere:
Commenting/Reviewing, is beneficiial to BOTH the Submitter and the Voter. You can learn a lot from the good and the bad, thus increasing your knowledge for youself.
Put youself in BOTH shoes.
I, as most others, do View the Top 20 and Bottom 20.
I'll try and change that, soon
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Yes, commenting and reviewing are good. Not sure where the top and bottom 20 come into play... there are no top or bottom until voting has ended. |
it would help us put a name to the troll votes. That way we know who the trolls are and can shun them in the forums until they just stop participating.
I don't think it's a good idea though, think it would start dpc which hunts, or the equilvent of the whole calling each other communists.
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06/22/2007 04:07:58 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
it would help us put a name to the troll votes. That way we know who the trolls are and can shun them in the forums until they just stop participating.
I don't think it's a good idea though, think it would start dpc which hunts, or the equilvent of the whole calling each other communists. |
Let's just stop that dead horse right where it is. It has nothing to do with the number of voters, so let's not start that conversation in this thread. |
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06/22/2007 04:09:03 PM · #53 |
do you have any data for longer sample times by chance? this may be something that happens every now and then and we just never saw it. think of it like myspace, no on used it, then a little, then it becaome popular, and now the number of active participants is going down again. Granted target age group is different, and I would like to think we are a little less fickle then teenagers...but there may be something there none the less.
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06/22/2007 04:17:23 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
do you have any data for longer sample times by chance? this may be something that happens every now and then and we just never saw it. think of it like myspace, no on used it, then a little, then it becaome popular, and now the number of active participants is going down again. Granted target age group is different, and I would like to think we are a little less fickle then teenagers...but there may be something there none the less. |
That's all of history for the site... |
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06/22/2007 04:18:01 PM · #55 |
Usually I read a whole thread before I comment but this time I only read the op and the last couple of posts but looking at the spreadsheet in the op I would say that the reason for the dramatic change would be DPL. Check the dates for when DPL began and see if this is true or not but it would make sense. The number of entries increased because for DPL with 72 teams and at least 4 to a team thats 288 entries in a challenge. Then add to that those that were voting before may have found it pretty simple to get 20% votes in a challenge but with a large challenge in the 400-500 range that's a lot of time spent in voting when they'd rather not... so they just don't vote at all.
I think one solution might be to separate DPL challenges. Then the voting might be a little easier to do. |
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06/22/2007 04:22:43 PM · #56 |
I haven't voted much lately because life exploded and my free time has gone down the tubes.
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06/22/2007 04:28:16 PM · #57 |
| sheryll has valid point..seperate dpl challenges from rest...kinda unfair to those not in dpl to have to go through so many submissions |
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06/22/2007 04:35:55 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Sheryll:
I think one solution might be to separate DPL challenges. Then the voting might be a little easier to do. |
Totally agree
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06/22/2007 04:43:51 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by msdoubletrouble:
sheryll has valid point..seperate dpl challenges from rest...kinda unfair to those not in dpl to have to go through so many submissions |
Is it unfair if people have to go through that many submissions when it's NOT DPL? I don't see this as a valid argument.
Entries are increasing across the board because the site is becoming more popular and more people are joining and submitting. DPL is just scapegoat of the month. (No, really, it gets its name on a plaque and a special parking space.) |
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06/22/2007 04:50:44 PM · #60 |
I don't think the DPL in the same challenges as the rest of us is the problem. And limiting what challenges you can and can't enter is just that, limits, and i don't think anyone wants that, especially if we're paying.
Here's the issue that i can see:
During the DPL season, submissions go up. Without increasing the number of challenges, we're seeing 300-400 submissions per challenge. Having that many entries in a topic based challenge makes the voting harsher because its harder to vote on 50+ photos of the same subject (flowers, cats, butts) thus making it look like the votes are decreasing. Notice in the FS, since its an open topic, the votes during or outside of the DPL season stays relatively the same?
So would increasing the number of challenges spread out the submissions (would still be alot) and increase votes since there's more diversity each week, and some wouldn't get tired of voting for 300+ similiar images. Remember last months FS when people commented on all the waterfalls? Its not that they were poor pictures, but to score better, it would really have to stand out from the rest.
I know we like to point to the graph and say BAM, its because of the # of submissions, but maybe the # of submissions isn't the problem at all, but rather we just need more exclusive challenges to spread those submissions out and thus increasing the diversity? |
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06/22/2007 05:30:35 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Here's a thought: Maybe, just maybe that whole friends voting witch hunt might have had a negative effect? Hmmmmm |
Only to the extent that several people aren't being allowed to vote right now. I guess to be completely accurate, we would need to factor that in somehow.
Oh, and a "witch hunt" implies that something not in existence is being sought out and proven without evidence. I guess it would just be fairer to allow those who engage in friend voting to continue to do so. |
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06/22/2007 05:40:55 PM · #62 |
My guess for part of the decline is the time of year. The majority of the users of this site are in the northern hemisphere where it is summer. Because of this, a lot of people will head out and take more pictures. (At least I do). Consequently, more people will have shots they want to enter.
On the flip side, people are going outside more so they don't spend as much time in front of the computer so they don't vote as much.
That's just me theory anyways.
As to forcing people to vote? I don't know. As has been mentioned previously, a lot of people don't vote on challenges they are entered in. It also forces people into committing extra time that they might not have available.
ETA: Also in terms of limiting entries? I think the more user's we have the more voters are available. By limiting entries we are turning people away in a sense. So less people - Less votes.
Message edited by author 2007-06-22 17:46:44.
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06/22/2007 06:02:30 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
As to forcing people to vote? I don't know. As has been mentioned previously, a lot of people don't vote on challenges they are entered in. It also forces people into committing extra time that they might not have available.
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I know that most of the time I don't vote on challenges that I enter but I do vote on other challenges. But I don't think that we can sit here and say that we can't put some code together that will allow those that don't vote not to see the scores.
As far as time... No one said that we had to do it all in one night, or 1 week. So time is not a problem.
And General, a while down you said something about lets not fix a site that isn't broken... Well it's not broken your right but there is a problem with it. People just plain out want to submit a picture and not vote or comment anymore. That is a HUGE problem. What if as all submitted and no one voted??? Or hardly anyone voted and some friend voting was going on and a picture that is OOF, at the wrong angle, lighting is off and so on and so on is given a 10 by a friend and no one else gets a vote... Guess who just won??? It's not fair to everyone else that spends time on their photos and get's nothing from it.
I think that we should push the 20% rule a step further. At any given time there is atleast 2 challenges going on sometimes 3 or 4 or more. I say that your scores are blind until you vote 30% in at least one challenge, Doesn't matter which one. That will increase the votes alone.
As far as previous challenges, All scores are visiable after the challenge has ended. That makes everything fair to everyone. It's a win-win.
If there are words spelled wrong just ignore them and fill in the correct letters.
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06/22/2007 06:09:12 PM · #64 |
I don't care what happens except I pay for the update button and to see my scores.
No button no cash... |
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06/22/2007 06:21:19 PM · #65 |
Here's a little different view. The following two plots track the number of entries and the total votes cast for challenges starting after March 01, 2007. The Free Studies are not included. The "Total Votes" scale is on the left and the "Entries" scale is on the right.
 
Tells a little different story doesn't it? Where's the negative voting trend?
Message edited by author 2007-06-22 18:21:49. |
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06/22/2007 06:22:24 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I don't care what happens except I pay for the update button and to see my scores.
No button no cash... |
No problem. It was nice talking with ya...
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06/22/2007 06:26:24 PM · #67 |
So, those that score sub-5.0, 4 challenges in a row have to sit out??? In the puzzle macro challenge, I'm below 5.0 again as I got dinged early w/a 2. My score has risen and ENTIRE POINT, not hundredth or tenth of a point, an entire point since then. When I go in and look at the "average vote cast" of those commenting...the majority have voting averages UNDER 4.3 and "average vote received just as low. Most have challenge entries that are all or almost all under 5, so tell me about the knowledge of those giving us sub-5.0 scores!
Get a few of these "generous souls" to vote on your image and unless it would ribbon to start with, it seems you get shelled for a decent photograph. That doesn't mean it reflects the photographic quality at all, so why penalize the photographer?
There are far more of us learning here (I am including myself in this group) than there are GREAT photographers and the more inexperienced newbies that join, will also create a swing in scores.
As was stated earlier, I'm seeing more and more crap entered and fewer quality/thought out shots. Just my take! I'm not sure penalizing the photographer is the key.
Originally posted by routerguy666:
[quote=fencekicker] [...]
edit: A possible way to alleviate this situation would be to impose a week's 'pause' on people who have pulled sub-5.0 scores for 4 challenges in a row. Start a new forum category called 'Penalty Box' where people who have to sit out can ask for insight, guidance, etc. Some people do this already, and I have never seen a request for help go unanswered - but the amount of people doing this versus the amount of crap being entered in challenges is miniscule. It's just an idea. I'm equally happy to continue with the status quo. |
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06/22/2007 06:26:58 PM · #68 |
Maybe the increase in entries is tied to the availability of DSLR cameras and less expensive P&S cameras that are capable of shooting challenge level images.
A lot of people are getting cameras now, entering the challenges, and are not as community oriented as the DPC group from a couple of years ago.
I wish I had time to vote more, as I very much enjoy looking thru the images that have been entered, and commenting on many of them.
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06/22/2007 06:30:23 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I don't care what happens except I pay for the update button and to see my scores.
No button no cash... |
No problem. It was nice talking with ya... |
You don't want to see your scores turn them off.
The update button and the viewing of the scores is a selling point for becoming a paying member.
Yeah lets see what Langdon thinks when his for profit site starts losing money.
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06/22/2007 06:32:32 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by MelonMusketeer:
Maybe the increase in entries is tied to the availability of DSLR cameras and less expensive P&S cameras that are capable of shooting challenge level images.
A lot of people are getting cameras now, entering the challenges, and are not as community oriented as the DPC group from a couple of years ago.
I wish I had time to vote more, as I very much enjoy looking thru the images that have been entered, and commenting on many of them. |
You know the funny thing is I am doing pretty good with my P+S. I am amazed at what I have come from to what I have now. I have made a rule to myself that I will NOT get a new camera until I get at least 1 ribbon or I top my camera's top score. And that is to learn how to use a camera and get everything else straight.
Well that and I don't have the money but... I will not buy one until I beat  rumttugger's 6.9100
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06/22/2007 06:38:26 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
You don't want to see your scores turn them off.
The update button and the viewing of the scores is a selling point for becoming a paying member.
Yeah lets see what Langdon thinks when his for profit site starts losing money. |
First off I never said that I don't NOT like seeing my scores. All I was saying was that you must vote 30% of ANY challenge before you can see them. How long would it take you to vote on 30 pictures of a 100 entry challenge.
Stop complaining about having to put in a little more effort so we can all get more comments.
If you don't want comments on your pictures cool, But I and about 25,000 other people would like too.
And I don't know what langdon's financial situation is but I'm sure this site is not his only income.
But your right the scores are a selling point, so lets say that you can see your scores on your first 10 entries and after that you must vote 30% to see your scores.
There that was easy. Going out now for dinner and to get drunkified. LATER!
Message edited by author 2007-06-22 18:38:49.
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06/22/2007 06:41:58 PM · #72 |
Dude WTF where did you see me complaining you better re-read this thread. That was my first damn post. Pay attention man before you start spouting off at the mouth.
Message edited by author 2007-06-22 18:42:11. |
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06/22/2007 06:49:58 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Here's a little different view. The following two plots track the number of entries and the total votes cast for challenges starting after March 01, 2007. The Free Studies are not included. The "Total Votes" scale is on the left and the "Entries" scale is on the right.
Tells a little different story doesn't it? Where's the negative voting trend? |
With a few exceptions, it seems to confirm that more entries in a challenge = less votes cast. When # of entries is at or below 250 or so, there is a higher # of votes cast in relation.
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06/22/2007 06:53:02 PM · #74 |
Personally, I'd rather have fewer votes that were cast in the already pretty limited amount of time that voters give images rather than more that were speedcast in order to gain access to one's own score.
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06/22/2007 06:53:52 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Tells a little different story doesn't it? Where's the negative voting trend? |
Looks to me like (as I said earlier) things haven't changed significantly at all. (Approximately) The same number of votes/voters, with more entries, means fewer votes on average for each entry because not everyone votes on every image.
The few large spikes in total votes, I'll make an assumption of my own, that they were for the challenges with 80-150 images. Seeing a number that small instills the "Hey, I can get through all of those pretty quickly" mindset into people, so they vote when they otherwise might not have. |
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