DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Separate DPL from regular challenges
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 201, (reverse)
AuthorThread
06/20/2007 09:02:50 AM · #1
Give the DPL their own challenges. Let THOSE that are not involved in DPL get decent scores.

Edit: DPL is way too big to be dropped on top of regular challenges.

Edit again: No conspiracy theories, just observed lower averages.

Edit a third time: I don't want DPL to go away, It's a nice site feature. It should just be more contained, so that everyone is not forced to compete against the league.

Originally posted by swhiddon:


Well I just got a PM from 21.gif thegrandwazoo asking me to view this thread and if I could, provide some input. Yes I have been keeping stats on challenge scores comparing DPL an Non-DPL challenges. And I will give everyone my personal opinion but take it at face value because stats are fact but we must understand that stats does not tell us why the change has happened.

1. Yes these are challenge averages, not my averages.
2. Yes the graph does show that since the DPL started there has been a drop in challenge average of almost .2000 points.
3. And the trend is continuing.

but we don't know what caused the decline. All we can do is speculate. So I will, and here is my opinions.

Since the DPL started we’re averaging over 1000 entries per week just between the members and two exclusive challenges. I believe this is the foremost reason for the drop in the challenge average score. I feel it is a domino effect, each photographer feels the need to enter every challenge to support his or her team and sometimes that may result in a less than average photograph entered. At the same time the voters are overwhelmed with amount of photographs they have to vote on. Voters that normally voted 100% are voting less and some voters that normally vote a fraction of the challenge are finding it hard to find time to vote the required 20%. I believe that voters are so overwhelmed that they are looking through entries and voting on the best of the best and skipping entries that do not catch their eye resulting in lower votes received per entry. There’s only so much time within a week to vote causing voters to take less time viewing each entry and sometimes they may vote a point lower than they would have if they had more time to view the entry.

Do I feel voters are purposely voting lower, NO! Do I think the majority of the images are of less quality, NO! I think there are bugs in the system, as langdon said, that we would have to work out. It may take a few seasons but I feel the DPL and DPC can coincide with each other. To what extent, I’m not sure at this time. For the people that have found their entries scoring lower than you thought it would, I feel your pain –been there, done that. Just as this site started with only 9 entries with high scores the more users that entered the lower the score became. And I think that’s what is happening now. The increase in entries has voters reevaluating their vote practice. And unfortunately some (well a lot) of good entries suffer.


Message edited by author 2007-06-21 13:16:19.
06/20/2007 09:04:45 AM · #2
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Give the DPL their own challenges. Let us that are not involved in DPL get decent scores.

Why does DPL bring down scores? (I don't know much about DPL, I'll go read the FAQ)
06/20/2007 09:05:05 AM · #3
You do not have any cause to worry about my scores with my dpl entries.
06/20/2007 09:05:24 AM · #4
So I'd be able to make DPL entries PLUS regular entries? I get little enough sleep as it is !
06/20/2007 09:06:15 AM · #5
Do you really think it brings down scores Leroy? My average has actually went up since DPL because I have been entering DPC friendly shots.
06/20/2007 09:07:26 AM · #6
It is pretty sad that people feel they have to give lower scores because they are on a team. The DPL wasn't meant for this. If you are voting lower than normal you need to think hard about why. If you say the quality has gone down then that is your opinion...but if you are doing it because you are scared of giving the opposite team a 6 or higher then you might need to not come back to the DPL next season because it is not helping you.
06/20/2007 09:08:08 AM · #7
me too! and i dont usually vote and havent voted since last yr probably. i felt spunky today and voted on Macro, BIG MISTAKE. I'm not voting anymore.

Originally posted by dudephil:

Do you really think it brings down scores Leroy? My average has actually went up since DPL because I have been entering DPC friendly shots.
06/20/2007 09:08:20 AM · #8
Originally posted by dudephil:

Do you really think it brings down scores Leroy?


Yes and I'm not the only one that believes it. Even minor vote "adjustments" by that many participants can cause scores to drop.
06/20/2007 09:09:51 AM · #9
I doubt dpl people are out down-voting en masse. More likely the competitiveness within the league is just increasing those people's scores due to a quality increase on their part, making everyone else's entries fare a bit worse in comparison. WPL was a good motivator for entering dpc formula shots - your team depends on the scores.

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 09:10:34.
06/20/2007 09:10:21 AM · #10
Couple of things.

1 - the DPL season is only 4 weeks
2 - Top scores are still in the 7s so can't be the "vote 'em all low" conspiracy you're referring to
3 - More entries means more people will end up in the Low/Middle ranges, thus more people dissatisfied with their scores

From a personal standpoint: I think my scores have been consistent for the last year or so, no matter if WPL/DPL was running or not. Good shots score well, okay shots score okay.
06/20/2007 09:10:45 AM · #11
I don't really have any good way to compare scores, but the one thing I have noticed is that I am receiving a lower number of votes per challenge. This could also be a result of it being summertime now too but the low number of votes IS something that has caught my eye.

It's just a shame that you have 300+ people entering a challenge and maybe only 150 will take the time to vote.

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 09:11:13.
06/20/2007 09:15:40 AM · #12
i've noticed less votes too, but since i dont vote, i cant complain about that. I'll just mumble bad words at a very low volume.

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I don't really have any good way to compare scores, but the one thing I have noticed is that I am receiving a lower number of votes per challenge. This could also be a result of it being summertime now too but the low number of votes IS something that has caught my eye.

It's just a shame that you have 300+ people entering a challenge and maybe only 150 will take the time to vote.
06/20/2007 09:16:26 AM · #13
Transitions:

Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265

Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)

High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090

Can't say I agree with the conspiracy here guys and gals.

06/20/2007 09:16:45 AM · #14
As a participant in DPL (my first DPL or WPL participation), I have to say, it's kind of gotten to me. I'm not sure that scores are lower because of DPL, however I feel the huge number of images submitted as a result of DPL is what's getting to me. I used to vote on all challenge entries. Now, I don't vote because I just can't gather the stamina to view that many damn images.

I see a lot of negative feelings regarding DPL and I have to be honest and say, I am also getting a negative feeling regarding it.

My recommendation would be to abandoned DPL all together here at DPC so we can get back to enjoying images here once again.

I haven't decided what I will do personally as far as DPL Season 2 goes (if there even is a season 2), but right now I'm leaning towards not participating in it any longer. Oh and my opinion on DPL comes from me as a member of a 3-1 Division A team so it's not that we, or I, am doing poorly and just sore about the subject.
06/20/2007 09:17:11 AM · #15
Originally posted by idnic:


2 - Top scores are still in the 7s so can't be the "vote 'em all low" conspiracy you're referring to


The average score, appears to be on average, lower than those before the DPL.

I didn't necessarily intend to imply that DPL voters were cheating, but that DPL is causing drops in averages. It may be the mass amounts of entries.
06/20/2007 09:19:21 AM · #16
nobody likes a bragger dudephil!!!!!! LOL, great scores though. i dont really notice that my scores have been low. They have actually been higher because since i'm in the DPL and have a team, i dont want to let them down so I try my best and I have been doing a lot better. I love the DPL!

Originally posted by dudephil:

Transitions:

Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265

Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)

High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090

Can't say I agree with the conspiracy here guys and gals.
06/20/2007 09:19:41 AM · #17
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

... It may be the mass amounts of entries.


exactly
06/20/2007 09:22:13 AM · #18
Whoa!! Those aren't my scores :D Those are the average scores from all entries in the last challenge vs all entries from the one in 2002.

Originally posted by Chinabun:

nobody likes a bragger dudephil!!!!!! LOL, great scores though. i dont really notice that my scores have been low. They have actually been higher because since i'm in the DPL and have a team, i dont want to let them down so I try my best and I have been doing a lot better. I love the DPL!

Originally posted by dudephil:

Transitions:

Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265

Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)

High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090

Can't say I agree with the conspiracy here guys and gals.
06/20/2007 09:22:41 AM · #19
Originally posted by Chinabun:

nobody likes a bragger dudephil!!!!!! LOL, great scores though. i dont really notice that my scores have been low. They have actually been higher because since i'm in the DPL and have a team, i dont want to let them down so I try my best and I have been doing a lot better. I love the DPL!


He's not bragging. Those are the averages for the challenges overall.

edit:
Late again. It just happened that I was doing a similar comparison. I don't see the scores being affected that much. The number of votes and comments, however, are being spread a bit thinner. Overwhelming number of entries is probably the reason for the latter...and that has been consistently increasing over the years as the site has continued to grow.

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 09:25:10.
06/20/2007 09:27:51 AM · #20
There are a couple of things going on:
- It's summer in the northern hemisphere, where most of the DPC population resides. It's not unusual to see more entries during better weather, and folks that don't often enter will do so with more regularity
- The DPL raises the number of entries, and there are more entries that folks might not otherwise have entered.
Average scores have dropped, just slightly, during the DPL season. The drop is so small that it's not at all possible to say that people are voting low. As a matter of fact, it's much more likely that it is because a different demographic of submitters is in play, and some folks are "forcing" entries just to get a shot in for the team.
Another thought: instead of looking at the number of votes per image, look at the number of votes per challenge. I'd bet that the number of total votes cast has actually gone up during DPL.
If encouraging participation is what it's all about, then DPL sure looks to me like a success.
06/20/2007 09:29:07 AM · #21
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

The average score, appears to be on average, lower than those before the DPL.


There's also quite a few people entering images that they wouldn't have otherwise entered if not on a team. I probably would have only submitted one out of my last 6 entries.

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Give the DPL their own challenges. Let us that are not involved in DPL get decent scores.


The scores you've been receiving seem to fall right around your average. What makes you think you would have received better scores outside the DPL?
06/20/2007 09:36:08 AM · #22
it was just a joke :)

Originally posted by KaDi:


He's not bragging.


[quote=dudephil]
Whoa!! Those aren't my scores :D Those are the average scores from all entries in the last challenge vs all entries from the one in 2002. [quote=dudephil]
06/20/2007 09:37:21 AM · #23
Originally posted by mk:


The scores you've been receiving seem to fall right around your average. What makes you think you would have received better scores outside the DPL?


My two current entries compared to other works make a damn good argument. I shall post them after voting is over.
06/20/2007 09:42:03 AM · #24
Originally posted by mk:


There's also quite a few people entering images that they wouldn't have otherwise entered if not on a team. I probably would have only submitted one out of my last 6 entries.


Sadly my commitment to team score has me not entering as team captain now. But were doing very well.

I do have 1 team mate that barley ever enters thats a bit more motivated now he hadnt shot since last year.
06/20/2007 09:43:58 AM · #25
Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

The average score, appears to be on average, lower than those before the DPL.

There's also quite a few people entering images that they wouldn't have otherwise entered if not on a team. I probably would have only submitted one out of my last 6 entries.


this has been my exeriance as well... i'm dpl is killing my average, but it's been my fault for pushing in too many last minute entries rather than sticking my team w/ another 0.0000

personally, it think leroy's been smoking the well-aged cheese again...

;)
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 04/21/2019 04:19:50 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2019 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 04/21/2019 04:19:50 PM EDT.