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08/07/2003 11:19:08 AM · #26 |
my outtake -- since you know, we can use other people's work :-D
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 11:20:21.
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08/07/2003 11:20:41 AM · #27 |
I personally feel that the entries that use images that were not taken by the photographer should be DQed.
I do hope everyone that used a picture from another source has the copyright owners approval too - after all submiting means you claim you have the legal right to use the image. |
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08/07/2003 11:21:30 AM · #28 |
I was quite disappointed myself. I vote on photography skill. When I can visibly see edits or things that are created in photoshop, the images loses its credibility as a photograph and I score them rather low.
I like photography. I also like the ability to edit my photography in any way I see fit as long as it maintains the theme of 'traditional' photography. There is a lot of stuff in this challenge where only a very small part of what i see is actually a photograph.
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08/07/2003 11:29:07 AM · #29 |
Hi John. I find your reaction a little odd: this was very specifically a 'no holds barred' challenge - not a relaxing of the rules just to allow a little extra editing and cleaning of a shot.
That said, of course your view, as anyone else's, remains valid. I rather think these dichotomies will result in low winning scores - which gives me some degree of optimism!
ed
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08/07/2003 11:30:01 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by e301:
Hi John. I find your reaction a little odd: this was very specifically a 'no holds barred' challenge - not a relaxing of the rules just to allow a little extra editing and cleaning of a shot.
That said, of course your view, as anyone else's, remains valid. I rather think these dichotomies will result in low winning scores - which gives me some degree of optimism!
ed |
It's just my opinion. I like photography. I don't care for digital artwork.
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08/07/2003 11:31:25 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I personally feel that the entries that use images that were not taken by the photographer should be DQed.
I do hope everyone that used a picture from another source has the copyright owners approval too - after all submiting means you claim you have the legal right to use the image. |
I agree.
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08/07/2003 11:32:54 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I personally feel that the entries that use images that were not taken by the photographer should be DQed.
I do hope everyone that used a picture from another source has the copyright owners approval too - after all submiting means you claim you have the legal right to use the image. |
thank you! exactly my point in another thread!
i've said it there, but i'll say it here too: there is a vast difference between editing out dust and scratches and pasting scanned in images of mother earth.
i submitted a montage-y like image for this challenge, but it was all my own source material. it didn't even strike me as an idea that i would use something other than my own stuff.
i dunno. this is disappointing, that's for sure. can't we have a no-limits-on-SPOT-editing challenge rather than a free for all?
rob
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 11:33:21.
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08/07/2003 11:36:28 AM · #33 |
Just for the heck of it....
This is what I believe would be a justifiable use of Photoshop to create the image I intended. I won't go into the details, simply because, well, I think Photoshop is a lot like magic -- and magicians never reveal their secrets, right? I COULD have made this shot in camera. I'd planned on it. And then, in the end, I realized how much easier it would be for me to simply Photoshop it. Because of this decision, it IS a better photo. I don't doubt that at all. I was able to more easily do certain things (like pump the saturation of the bricks -- some will probably argue it's too much, but I wanted it a little unreal) that I could have done with a straight shot, but...
Oh, why do I let myself get dragged into these discussions -- it's the reason I quit submitting here anyway. *grin*
(PS -- I've since lowered the balloon a little because I didn't like where it was in this shot.)
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 11:41:20.
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08/07/2003 11:42:40 AM · #34 |
In the end, the voting will decide what is and what isn't acceptable here. I personally don't much go for the digital art type of image, but it was a no holds barred challenge.... which entitles people to enter whatever they want. It's not what I would like to see, and it's not what I entered, but we still some control over these things in the way we vote.
I personally am both very happy with my image and also feel quite strongly about it, if it is beaten by a piece of artwork I will be very disappointed, but that's the risk everyone took by entering this challenge.
Don't DQ the pics which you think are not the photographer's work, just mark them down, and reward the images which you think are true to the essence of photography.... simple really. :) |
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08/07/2003 12:07:03 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Toddh:
In the end, the voting will decide what is and what isn't acceptable here. I personally don't much go for the digital art type of image, but it was a no holds barred challenge.... which entitles people to enter whatever they want. |
It doesn't entitle them to break the law, or the legal agreement they signed up for when they joined DPC and every time they enter a picture though. No holds barred doesn't mean steal a picture from anywhere you can and claim its your own |
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08/07/2003 12:08:58 PM · #36 |
There is people who cares about (digital) photography.
There is people who cares about artworks.
There is people who cares of both and people who cares of just one or none of them.
Everybody has the right to care for whatever they like to.
But what it seems clear to me since the beginning of this discussion is that nobody mixes-up the two things (photography and artwork) as concept.
So, as long as they are fairly separated, I don't see where the problem lies really.
I am starting suspecting that the problem exists because of a secret society who aims to cheat (by submitting artwork as photography).
Are they Men In Black??
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 12:10:50. |
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08/07/2003 12:09:30 PM · #37 |
I think a distinction worth making re: PS and darkroom, is the DEGREE to which a foto can be manipulated. I certainly think PS images can be interesting, but with PS' wide spread use, I don't come away from a ps image thinking "great photo" but "they sure have a handle on PS'. Prhaps the trick to usuing PS successfully, is like women with make-up, never use so much that it is painfully obvious.
(that being said, the 'future challenge' was a good choice for no editing rules IMHO. |
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08/07/2003 12:13:57 PM · #38 |
| Good point Gordon, it doesn't give them the right to use images which are not theirs. It certainly wouldn't bother me if they were DQed based on using other people's images. |
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08/07/2003 12:17:06 PM · #39 |
Regarding the last post of Ellamay, it inspired me another consideration.
Classic (Non-Digital) Photography never had a change of being pure.
I mean that a print was anyway necessary and in the darkroom, depending on the choices made, the original shot was going to be altered in someway in any case.
Digital Photography (because it is digital!) allows us for another kind of photography. It is possible, in fact, to display a shot exactly as it was taken in the very first place without any alteration introduced by the darkroom processing.
That is a great thing and it should be respected and considered as a category on its own. Probably the very first and most important one why DPChallenge was created.
Of course, that does not offer any reason to exclude other categories, even artworks as long as they are fairly recognized for what they are.
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 12:18:00. |
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08/07/2003 12:20:32 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Regarding the last post of Ellamay, it inspired me another consideration.
Classic (Non-Digital) Photography never had a change of being pure.
I mean that a print was anyway necessary and in the darkroom, depending on the choices made, the original shot was going to be altered in someway in any case.
Digital Photography (because it is digital!) allows us for another kind of photography. It is possible, in fact, to display a shot exactly as it was taken in the very first place without any alteration introduced by the darkroom processing.
That is a great thing and it should be respected and considered as a category on its own. Probably the very first and most important one why DPChallenge was created.
Of course, that does not offer any reason to exclude other categories, even artworks as long as they are fairly recognized for what they are. |
Sorry - but this is not really true. Your cameras have a ton of electronics that post process the image. There is no such thing as 'pure' digital photography.
The fact that if you let your camera do the darkroom processing for you just means you have less control. It is the photographic equivalent of using walmart to develop your pictures.
Using a 'RAW' mode type camera, you can get the basic data from the sensor - but if you've ever looked at it, it isn't what anyone would consider a 'pure' picture, in much the same way people don't normally display negatives as an art form either.
The info from the camera has the potential to be a great picture. It is sad that many people don't bother trying to reach that potential using the tools available. The problem comes when people equate a statement like this with the digital art people entered into the future challenge. For me, about 50% of the entries aren't even photographs.
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 12:23:54. |
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08/07/2003 12:23:19 PM · #41 |
| I agree glimpses. That they are seperate genres and each has a place, just glad for my own skill, I am here to learn about straight photography. For PS, someday I will add to that 3 hr. workshop I took to learn it : ) |
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08/07/2003 12:23:23 PM · #42 |
I agree. Rating low an illegal entry isn't the solution. After all, here's a quote of the Terms of Use of the site "You will not use the DPChallenge.com Service to post content or to design, manufacture, market or sell a Product that (i) infringes the rights of a third party, including, without limitation, copyrights, ". So when users agreed to this, they understood they had not the right to use without permission the work of others. This is not even digital art, this is fraud. (ok here's the lawyer speaking...sorry!)
I submitted in this challenge but only used my own photography with Photoshop Editing. I hope you will all vote, just for the sake of those who invested a lot of time in this challenge (because we did!!!). Digital editing is time consuming no matter if you like the end result or not, and your taste for that result should be your scoring cue.
But that's just my opinion.
Nathalie
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by Gordon:
I personally feel that the entries that use images that were not taken by the photographer should be DQed.
I do hope everyone that used a picture from another source has the copyright owners approval too - after all submiting means you claim you have the legal right to use the image. |
i submitted a montage-y like image for this challenge, but it was all my own source material. it didn't even strike me as an idea that i would use something other than my own stuff.
rob |
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 12:24:12.
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08/07/2003 01:15:20 PM · #43 |
it's not the manipulation that *I* found troubling. If you look at my Multi-Image Compositions or my Doors and Windows entries, you will see that this is so.
What I found troubling is that people used source material that they did not themselves shoot ..
Frankly that never even occurred to me to do that or that others would do that.
Which, I guess is a good thing. Because it points out a hole that we have left open on this site. It makes us realize we that we need to make it completely clear that you cannot submit anything for which you are not the copyright holder.
We'll probably need to implement a button or something that makes sure you acknowledge you shot everything yourself and own copyright for all of the above.
Message edited by author 2003-08-07 13:16:49.
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08/07/2003 01:21:07 PM · #44 |
right on, kollin.
i'm not debating digital art vs. digital photography. i'm just saying that there IS happy medium between a non-edited photo right out of the camera and an image of the death star. it seems like everything here is from one extreme to the other.
rob
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08/07/2003 01:27:15 PM · #45 |
Actually I brought up the "photo taken by you" issue (and some other things about "no holds barred") back on July 31st in this thread. Nobody seemed to say the things I was suggesting were not permitted.
That being said, I still did not submit an entry for this challenge. |
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08/07/2003 01:34:08 PM · #46 |
Maybe there is a need to clarify the rules BEFORE the middle of the challenge.
It was my understanding there are No Holds Barred in this challenge.
I wish at this point you would just DQ my shot, We'd both feel better about it. |
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08/07/2003 02:34:16 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Gringo:
Maybe there is a need to clarify the rules BEFORE the middle of the challenge.
It was my understanding there are No Holds Barred in this challenge.
I wish at this point you would just DQ my shot, We'd both feel better about it. |
It was a no holds barred editing challenge. This doesn't mean you can break the law. I have no idea if yours is one of the pictures that used photographs taken from other sources, but those are the ones I'm referring to.
Cuting and pasting stuff from other people's photographs and entering it, isn't exactly entering a picture that you took, is it ?
Again - I don't know if this addresses your entry in particular or not. |
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08/07/2003 02:36:22 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
it's not the manipulation that *I* found troubling. If you look at my Multi-Image Compositions or my Doors and Windows entries, you will see that this is so.
What I found troubling is that people used source material that they did not themselves shoot ..
Frankly that never even occurred to me to do that or that others would do that.
Which, I guess is a good thing. Because it points out a hole that we have left open on this site. It makes us realize we that we need to make it completely clear that you cannot submit anything for which you are not the copyright holder.
We'll probably need to implement a button or something that makes sure you acknowledge you shot everything yourself and own copyright for all of the above. |
Its already there though. There are several sections in the use policy that mention it. Putting more check boxes out there doesn't help if people don't bother to read or understand the legal agreements they sign up for.
[] Did you read the rules ?
[] Are you sure ?
[] Is this your picture ?
[] Really ?
[] You wouldn't be just checking boxes would you ? |
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08/07/2003 02:52:43 PM · #49 |
rofl Gordon.
My $.02 about all this is that I see DPC as a great place to become a better photographer. I want people who comment on my photo to have some idea about what actually came out of the camera in the first place so that I can get feedback that will help me improve that skill.
I think if we wanted to have a contest that helped us become better photoshop user's we might have a different kind of challenge. A challenge like we have now (you have to take a photo and then manipulate that photo) where you upload the shot unaltered and then altered so people could compare what came out of PS with what went into it.
I really like the basic challenge rules, so I think we should keep that around. However it sounds like there's a lot of interest in production challenge which I think would be great to offer in addition to the classic DPC. |
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08/07/2003 02:56:10 PM · #50 |
| I agree dpchallenge should be about photography there's worth1000.com for photoshopping |
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