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06/20/2003 09:38:59 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by orussell:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Low key pictures concentrate on the darker tones, often conveying an atmosphere of tension or a powerful deep strength. This ha sometimes been use for male portraits, though more often a fuller tonal range with hard lighting is used.
Although low key often uses high contrast lighting, most of the subject is likely to be in shadow, with relatively small areas brightly lit.
These are some of the websites I looked at. //photography.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_lowkey.htm
//198.150.241.250/ksteinhilber/web%20images/ksteinhilber/Preston.html
I found more earlier but can't find them now..hmmm...
I think people should always look at more then one website just to make sure they get it right. |
In that case the challenge might of been called Low-Key instead of Black on Black to account for tonal ranges and colours other than gray to black.
Owen |
Well as you are being anal about it, I hope you are voting down any shot that has grey in it. Otherwise you aren't being very consistant now are you ? Yes its a stupid position to suggest.
and the challenge _was_ called low key - go actually read the description.
Message edited by author 2003-06-20 09:41:04. |
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06/20/2003 09:40:01 AM · #27 |
Now you get it...the discription was very vague. I think people should try not to be so harsh while voting. It was confusing for some. If anyone has any bad thoughts about some of the pictures then they need to comment on the photos and give people tips instead of writing in the forums. Wouldn't you all agree?
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06/20/2003 09:44:39 AM · #28 |
i don't consider the second link below .../Preston.html as low key.
Low Key Black on Black to me means:
no color (black on black)
no white (black on black)
only black and gray-tones (low key)
dark overall (low key)
as opposed to high key which is mostly white and light tones.
i've seen several images in the competition that don't fit the challenge but many that do.
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Low key pictures concentrate on the darker tones, often conveying an atmosphere of tension or a powerful deep strength. This ha sometimes been use for male portraits, though more often a fuller tonal range with hard lighting is used.
Although low key often uses high contrast lighting, most of the subject is likely to be in shadow, with relatively small areas brightly lit.
These are some of the websites I looked at. //photography.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_lowkey.htm
//198.150.241.250/ksteinhilber/web%20images/ksteinhilber/Preston.html
I found more earlier but can't find them now..hmmm...
I think people should always look at more then one website just to make sure they get it right. |
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06/20/2003 09:55:32 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by goodtempo:
Low Key Black on Black to me means:
no color (black on black)
no white (black on black)
only black and gray-tones (low key)
dark overall (low key)
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So, if I'm understanding your correctly, you're giving 10s to all photos shot with the lens cap on? Gray is not black, and black is not gray. So how do we vote?
Personally, I'm going to completely ignore the "black on black" title of the challenge and vote on low-key photos, which, at first glance, I consider pretty much all of them to be, minus maybe one or two.
The whole "challenge" aspect of this site is really starting to bite itself in the ass. All of the uptight internet folk are coming out of the woodwork to make sure your photographs "fit the challenge". How about we start voting on the merit of the photograph?
Message edited by author 2003-06-20 09:55:57.
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06/20/2003 09:56:08 AM · #30 |
Gordon,
Here's the challenge outline:
Challenge: Black on Black (06/20/2003 - 06/20/2003)
Submissions: 92
Details: Also known as "low-key," take a photograph using this technique.
As you can see the Challenge was called "Black on Black" not any other color (oh yeah you pointed that out didn't you....gray is not black). Well I guess I gotta go give everyone a 1 now. ;)
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06/20/2003 09:57:48 AM · #31 |
One of the links showing examples of high-key and low-key is really a bad example... the link itself says that the backgrounds are low/high key... That does not mean the image itself represents a high/low key image...
I agree that people may be using a very restrictive view of what this challenge means. Its possible to have black and white images that are also low-key/black on black... even sepia toned images. Its also possible for color images to be low key.
Even with black objects... if you're lighting your subject in any way, chances are there will be a color cast to it, even if it is black... its the only way to get objects to stand out..
The criteria to look for, I would think... are. a) Is the image composed of mostly dark tones that fall under 18% grey b) is the image nicely exposed regardless of the dark tones and does it convey the mood that low-key images usually create... c) For those that need the object to be black also, is the object one that under normal lighting, might appear very dark (not necessarily pure black)...
c) really isn't a hard-fast criteria since the description mentions to just take a low-key image (the title and description are slightly in conflict)
That's how I'm voting anyhow :) |
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06/20/2003 10:00:16 AM · #32 |
of course, i vote on the merit of the photograph too.
Originally posted by mci:
Originally posted by goodtempo:
Low Key Black on Black to me means:
no color (black on black)
no white (black on black)
only black and gray-tones (low key)
dark overall (low key)
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So, if I'm understanding your correctly, you're giving 10s to all photos shot with the lens cap on? Gray is not black, and black is not gray. So how do we vote?
Personally, I'm going to completely ignore the "black on black" title of the challenge and vote on low-key photos, which, at first glance, I consider pretty much all of them to be, minus maybe one or two.
The whole "challenge" aspect of this site is really starting to bite itself in the ass. All of the uptight internet folk are coming out of the woodwork to make sure your photographs "fit the challenge". How about we start voting on the merit of the photograph? |
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06/20/2003 10:00:41 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by mci:
The whole "challenge" aspect of this site is really starting to bite itself in the ass. All of the uptight internet folk are coming out of the woodwork to make sure your photographs "fit the challenge". How about we start voting on the merit of the photograph? |
It seems to me that if we don't "fit the challenge" all we will have is just a bunch of photo of such a wide array of things, we may as well just not even do it.
Isn't the idea of the challenge to give each weekly contest a theme to work by? If the challenge is Black On Black thats what I am looking for first, then to see if it fits the low-key part of it as well.
Message edited by author 2003-06-20 10:03:31.
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06/20/2003 10:08:11 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by orussell:
Gordon,
Here's the challenge outline:
Challenge: Black on Black (06/20/2003 - 06/20/2003)
Submissions: 92
Details: Also known as "low-key," take a photograph using this technique.
As you can see the Challenge was called "Black on Black" not any other color (oh yeah you pointed that out didn't you....gray is not black). Well I guess I gotta go give everyone a 1 now. ;) |
and if you'd read the details, which I'm sure you have, it says 'also known as 'low-key''
which to an even cursory reading makes it pretty obvious that the person who set the challenge expected low-key images to be entirely acceptable. I realise the DPC forum lawyers have a stricter interpretation, but its pretty plain in the details. |
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06/20/2003 10:12:13 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by rickhd13:
It seems to me that if we don't "fit the challenge" all we will have is just a bunch of photo of such a wide array of things, we may as well just not even do it.
Isn't the idea of the challenge to give each weekly contest a theme to work by? If the challenge is Black On Black thats what I am looking for first, then to see if it fits the low-key part of it as well. |
I've always treated the challenges like this: the challenge topic/description is a guideline for shooting your photograph. It's for the photographers to have a nice little assignment that they can have fun with. For voting, I ignore the challenge topic. I assume, unless blatently disregarded (completely blue photograph in a "Yellow" challenge, full color photo in a "Black and White" challenge, etc.), that every picture entered meets the challenge in the eyes of the photographer. I am not going to judge them based on how they interpreted the challenge. That's not my job as a voter. I'm judging the merit of the photograph and commenting on what I like or how it might be improved.
The problem is that everyone is a little different, not only when it comes to interpreting and photographing the challenge, but when it comes to voting on it as well. All this mishmash of opinions, especially in a vaguely described challenge like this, is taking away from people getting some honest opinions on their photograph. The photos are being dismissed as "not meeting the challenge" and an entire week's worth of work is not getting the attention and critiques it deserves.
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06/20/2003 10:18:52 AM · #36 |
maybe the wording of the challenges should be thought out a little better: "black on black" is a little difficult to compute and seems to be the biggest question here. if it's clear what the challenge is then we can all concentrate on doing the photography rather than trying to figure out "what" we are supposed to do.
Originally posted by mci:
Originally posted by rickhd13:
It seems to me that if we don't "fit the challenge" all we will have is just a bunch of photo of such a wide array of things, we may as well just not even do it.
Isn't the idea of the challenge to give each weekly contest a theme to work by? If the challenge is Black On Black thats what I am looking for first, then to see if it fits the low-key part of it as well. |
I've always treated the challenges like this: the challenge topic/description is a guideline for shooting your photograph. It's for the photographers to have a nice little assignment that they can have fun with. For voting, I ignore the challenge topic. I assume, unless blatently disregarded (completely blue photograph in a "Yellow" challenge, full color photo in a "Black and White" challenge, etc.), that every picture entered meets the challenge in the eyes of the photographer. I am not going to judge them based on how they interpreted the challenge. That's not my job as a voter. I'm judging the merit of the photograph and commenting on what I like or how it might be improved.
The problem is that everyone is a little different, not only when it comes to interpreting and photographing the challenge, but when it comes to voting on it as well. All this mishmash of opinions, especially in a vaguely described challenge like this, is taking away from people getting some honest opinions on their photograph. The photos are being dismissed as "not meeting the challenge" and an entire week's worth of work is not getting the attention and critiques it deserves. |
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06/20/2003 10:26:02 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by goodtempo:
maybe the wording of the challenges should be thought out a little better: "black on black" is a little difficult to compute and seems to be the biggest question here. if it's clear what the challenge is then we can all concentrate on doing the photography rather than trying to figure out "what" we are supposed to do. |
Yup. I agree, except I prefer them ambiguous and open for interpretation. Better definition just improves the resolution of how picky people can be.
It isn't a legal document it is supposed to be an artistic challenge. While not accepting everything and anything, some degree of benefit of the doubt would perhaps widen some minds. |
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06/20/2003 10:27:15 AM · #38 |
but at least have challenges where the title and the description arent in conflict to one another.
sheesh :P
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06/20/2003 10:28:03 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
but at least have challenges where the title and the description arent in conflict to one another.
sheesh :P |
yes that would help a bit....:) |
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06/20/2003 10:28:28 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by mci:
I've always treated the challenges like this: the challenge topic/description is a guideline for shooting your photograph. It's for the photographers to have a nice little assignment that they can have fun with. |
Common sense in the forums? What's going on here? Stop it now!
; )
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06/20/2003 10:58:25 AM · #41 |
I've finishe voting on the BoB challenge, and I have yet to leave comments--but I will. If the image looked generally darker than light, I figured it met the challenge and then judged it accordingly. Very few images looked lighter than dark, and even those, it could be argued, were low key. So I took it very easy on the challenge aspect and looked at the photos themselves. There are many, many good images in the challenge, and a half dozen or so that really move me.
Congrats to the submitters: scores or not, this has been a good challenge and has elicited a lot of very fine photos! |
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06/20/2003 12:10:34 PM · #42 |
I really don't give a rats a** how a person interprets a challenge. That's entirely up to them. Be ambiguous about it if you will, and if it's a decent image, the majority will like it, and you'll do well with it anyways. If you fall within the guidelines you'll probably do even better.
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06/20/2003 12:18:21 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by mci:
I am not going to judge them based on how they interpreted the challenge. That's not my job as a voter. |
Hey there,
Everyone can vote however they like, obviously, but in the challenge rules they specifically tell us to do this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." I think that's why a lot of us (including me) take our judgement of whether they met the challenge as an important part of how we vote, in addition to the merits of the photograph itself.
Just thought I'd mention. :)
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06/20/2003 12:31:55 PM · #44 |
i agree, and that's exactly why i think the topic of the challenge should be clearly stated like:
At Work: Photograph a person or group of people doing whatever they do to make their living.
Country Life: Take your best shot at depicting life in the country.
even though they are still open to interpretation, they are much better stated and pretty clear to me.
Originally posted by carolee:
Hey there,
Everyone can vote however they like, obviously, but in the challenge rules they specifically tell us to do this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." I think that's why a lot of us (including me) take our judgement of whether they met the challenge as an important part of how we vote, in addition to the merits of the photograph itself.
Just thought I'd mention. :) |
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06/20/2003 12:34:15 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by carolee:
Hey there,
Everyone can vote however they like, obviously, but in the challenge rules they specifically tell us to do this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." I think that's why a lot of us (including me) take our judgement of whether they met the challenge as an important part of how we vote, in addition to the merits of the photograph itself.
Just thought I'd mention. :) |
Thanks for pointing that out. I have seen that before and remember being really unhappy with it. heh. I think that if they are going to say things like that, we need two paragraph challenge descriptions, no challenge titles (they just cause confusion), and sample images of exactly what it is the challenge is about.
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06/20/2003 12:42:01 PM · #46 |
People are just giving 1s because...they can. I'm totally confused to the point of frustration with the whole process. How the hell can someone honestly give an on topic, decent shot a 1? How? I just got a 1 from someone (54 votes, 5.5 to 55 votes, 5.41). I would REALLY love to know how the shot I submitted deserved a 1, but nobody left me a comment. I really don't understand...unless my pic is too dark, this all makes no sense. I looked at it on 2 monitors and it's fine.
WTF?
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06/20/2003 12:49:23 PM · #47 |
Dumb-ass "strategic voting", I'm guessing Mavrik. Some people need to win at all costs it appears.
Of course, if it's a troll placing ones on everyone's images, then it will be wiped out in the cleanup.
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06/20/2003 12:58:10 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
People are just giving 1s because...they can. I'm totally confused to the point of frustration with the whole process. How the hell can someone honestly give an on topic, decent shot a 1? How? I just got a 1 from someone (54 votes, 5.5 to 55 votes, 5.41). I would REALLY love to know how the shot I submitted deserved a 1, but nobody left me a comment. I really don't understand...unless my pic is too dark, this all makes no sense. I looked at it on 2 monitors and it's fine.
WTF? |
My photo just took a heavy hit on one vote, too. It looks like you and I are in the same boat. It was like 5.63 or something with 52 votes and is now 5.54 at 53. I'm too math-challenged to figure out what the score was, but it wasn't good. heh.
Message edited by author 2003-06-20 12:58:34.
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06/20/2003 01:02:38 PM · #49 |
mine did the same, big hit with one vote. something like 5.38 to 5.26.
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06/20/2003 01:36:23 PM · #50 |
| Boy, the more I read these post I get more confused on how to vote, just finished, and I'm afraid I made a mess of things in my voting, may have to go back and regroup my thoughts on this challenge, did,nt think you could have any color in these picture's, and may have voted high on good black and white picture's. this maybe a learning experience for alot of us. Let it go, I might have to say at the end. |
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