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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Black on Black Can of Worms
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06/20/2003 06:15:22 AM · #1
Originally posted by Jak in another Black on Black thread:

06/13/2003 12:20:37 AM
Low-Key: at //www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000N3V
the definition is:

"Low Key - Contains tones ranging from 18% grey to black - Often conveys a more serious, formal, dignified mood. - Mostly used to show the character, or personality of the model by emphasizing shape, texture, and making use of “mood” lighting. - Good low key maintains detail in the blackest shadow area. - Lighting requires more side and back lighting, to produce large shadow areas. - Makes good use of gobos, barn doors, or other light focusing devises. - Careful use of fill lights is necessary to maintain low-key mood while filling the shadows just enough to give detail."


IMHO I think this is a fair description of Black-on-Black/Low-key technique. It is basis upon which I am voting. I recognize that the technique was not fully explained in the challenge outline but everyone had the opportunity to research or at least read the posts on this topic. Happy voting :)
06/20/2003 06:55:12 AM · #2
Originally posted by orussell:

IMHO I think this is a fair description of Black-on-Black/Low-key technique. It is basis upon which I am voting.


Makes sense, although I think that the "18%" rule is a bit anal-retentive ;)

HJ
06/20/2003 07:11:21 AM · #3
Originally posted by SharQ:

Originally posted by orussell:

IMHO I think this is a fair description of Black-on-Black/Low-key technique. It is basis upon which I am voting.


Makes sense, although I think that the "18%" rule is a bit anal-retentive ;)

HJ


I totally agree HJ. I mean how could you even measure it......well I guess there must be a way but why get too sticky. For me the images that were grayscale and showed maximum detail with minimal light scored fairly well with me. Images which I found additionally interesting and/or which had other technical components scored even higher with me.

Owen
06/20/2003 07:19:11 AM · #4
Originally posted by orussell:

I totally agree HJ. I mean how could you even measure it


Open each picture in PS and use the eyedropper tool or levels, or you could always use the screen calibration and measurement tool that comes with OS X.

That was besides the point, though - far more important is the point that if an image looks stunning but has some 0% gray (i.e pure white) in it, that should hardly be the reason for not giving it a 10.

'tis all about context.

Message edited by author 2003-06-20 07:19:24.
06/20/2003 07:23:46 AM · #5
a camera's meter calibrates the median value of the scene to the luminosity level equivalent to 18% gray. That's where that number comes from :).

06/20/2003 07:28:21 AM · #6
Thanks for the info guys. I feel a little dumb right about now. ROFL
06/20/2003 07:33:43 AM · #7
don't feel dumb ... it's all just part of the learning process :). everyone has to start somewhere. . . .

hmm, just starting looking at the entries. seems like a lot of people thought black on black/low key just meant a black and white photo ..........


06/20/2003 07:35:13 AM · #8
I'll be looking for a sombre feel to the picture. That's it. No anal retentiveness here. Too much of that crap build-up every week.
06/20/2003 07:52:23 AM · #9
Originally posted by magnetic9999:

don't feel dumb ... it's all just part of the learning process :). everyone has to start somewhere. . . .

hmm, just starting looking at the entries. seems like a lot of people thought black on black/low key just meant a black and white photo ..........


TY mag. I even changed my signature in honor of your kind words. ;)

Message edited by author 2003-06-20 08:41:31.
06/20/2003 08:02:05 AM · #10
Wow, well I do keep an eye on the forums, and based my photo on the definition below, and was STILL told it did not meet the definition of the challenge...


I made it black on black/low-key at the same time to avoid any sort of confusion...

Must have been really off from my understanding of the definition below...

Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by Jak in another Black on Black thread:

06/13/2003 12:20:37 AM
Low-Key: at //www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000N3V
the definition is:

"Low Key - Contains tones ranging from 18% grey to black - Often conveys a more serious, formal, dignified mood. - Mostly used to show the character, or personality of the model by emphasizing shape, texture, and making use of ?mood? lighting. - Good low key maintains detail in the blackest shadow area. - Lighting requires more side and back lighting, to produce large shadow areas. - Makes good use of gobos, barn doors, or other light focusing devises. - Careful use of fill lights is necessary to maintain low-key mood while filling the shadows just enough to give detail."


IMHO I think this is a fair description of Black-on-Black/Low-key technique. It is basis upon which I am voting. I recognize that the technique was not fully explained in the challenge outline but everyone had the opportunity to research or at least read the posts on this topic. Happy voting :)
06/20/2003 08:08:13 AM · #11
Originally posted by sylandrix:

Wow, well I do keep an eye on the forums, and based my photo on the definition below, and was STILL told it did not meet the definition of the challenge...


I made it black on black/low-key at the same time to avoid any sort of confusion...

Must have been really off from my understanding of the definition below...


Don't feel too bad. I was given a 1 on my photo strictly because of this forum even though based on the definition, I feel my photo DOES at least meet the challenge. Unless of course, someone takes the "model" reference literally and votes a 1 for any photo of something other than a person.

I ask myself every week why I bother to enter these challenges when people consistently set up arbitrary voting standards that have little or nothing to do with the quality of the photo on which they vote.

Shari
06/20/2003 08:12:24 AM · #12
LOL. I really like the 'bad spellers untie' part :-D

Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

don't feel dumb ... it's all just part of the learning process :). everyone has to start somewhere. . . .

hmm, just starting looking at the entries. seems like a lot of people thought black on black/low key just meant a black and white photo ..........


TY mag. I even changed my signature in honor of your kind words. ;)

06/20/2003 08:23:31 AM · #13
I'm crazy about my own shot. It's one of the coolest pics I've ever taken, imho. So I'm not really that stressed about the lowish score.

I guess someone could say that it's easy for me to say that, since I've already proved I can score high, but I still can't underscore enough: it's more important to be happy with your shot in the long run than ANY OTHER FACTOR. :)
06/20/2003 08:29:43 AM · #14
Originally posted by magnetic9999:

I'm crazy about my own shot. It's one of the coolest pics I've ever taken, imho. So I'm not really that stressed about the lowish score.

I guess someone could say that it's easy for me to say that, since I've already proved I can score high, but I still can't underscore enough: it's more important to be happy with your shot in the long run than ANY OTHER FACTOR. :)


I agree mag. I ought to just quit looking at the scores, but I like external validation too :)


06/20/2003 08:36:10 AM · #15
Well, I knew this was a difficult challenge. I guess I didn't "get it". I just rec'd my first comment, and was referred to this thread :P
Oh well.. so far only a 4.8.
Cool thing is, my husband really likes the image, so we will keep it for ourselves, and I will have learned something new anyway. Maybe I will shoot it the "right" way in future. :)
06/20/2003 08:37:02 AM · #16
Well I thought my Black on Black shot would do OK but it's in the basement. And yes I did use Jak's post as a guideline. Well maybe not the 18% part or the model part but otherwise. Currently it's at 4.4872 even lower than my self-portrait....LMAO. On the upside, my off-center entry is doing extremely well, even with it's very obvious flaws. So it just goes to show, there's no accounting for taste.

Owen

Message edited by author 2003-06-20 08:40:14.
06/20/2003 09:05:31 AM · #17
I stand corrected. Apparently, low-key can include images such as ones from this resource. However, it still doesn't make them Black on Black low-key. If the challenge was Full Color Low-key there would be a big difference.
06/20/2003 09:13:24 AM · #18
I'm at 4.7 my lowest ever, David's at 4.6, his lowest ever. No comments though, I guess they fit the challenge, but they just suck. Guess we both should've sat this one out.
06/20/2003 09:19:16 AM · #19
I wonder if scoring will be lower overall, because it is so difficult to look at all those dark pictures (I'm NOT saying "too dark"). And, what's with black on black and shoes (or boots)?
06/20/2003 09:20:12 AM · #20
Originally posted by orussell:

I stand corrected. Apparently, low-key can include images such as ones from this resource. However, it still doesn't make them Black on Black low-key. If the challenge was Full Color Low-key there would be a big difference.


This is the problem with arbitrary voting criteria that doesn't really take the actual photograph into consideration. Somewhere, you'll find someone who can trash the criteria you were using.

Shari
06/20/2003 09:22:39 AM · #21
Low key pictures concentrate on the darker tones, often conveying an atmosphere of tension or a powerful deep strength. This ha sometimes been use for male portraits, though more often a fuller tonal range with hard lighting is used.

Although low key often uses high contrast lighting, most of the subject is likely to be in shadow, with relatively small areas brightly lit.

These are some of the websites I looked at. //photography.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_lowkey.htm
//198.150.241.250/ksteinhilber/web%20images/ksteinhilber/Preston.html
I found more earlier but can't find them now..hmmm...

I think people should always look at more then one website just to make sure they get it right.


06/20/2003 09:29:00 AM · #22
There are an awful lot of pictures there which are NOT low-key, but I get the feeling that whoever took them may have thought they were. If the background is black, this is not enough IMO to make a low-key picture. Same goes for making it black and white! The subject of the photo has to contain mostly dark tones as well. This rules out loads of photos. In my own scoring, an excellent photo in this category will get around a 5 or a 6.
06/20/2003 09:31:42 AM · #23
I have one comment saying mine is their favorite. I wish more people would comment if they don't think it is low key.
06/20/2003 09:36:18 AM · #24
Originally posted by Sonifo:

Low key pictures concentrate on the darker tones, often conveying an atmosphere of tension or a powerful deep strength. This ha sometimes been use for male portraits, though more often a fuller tonal range with hard lighting is used.

Although low key often uses high contrast lighting, most of the subject is likely to be in shadow, with relatively small areas brightly lit.

These are some of the websites I looked at. //photography.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_lowkey.htm
//198.150.241.250/ksteinhilber/web%20images/ksteinhilber/Preston.html
I found more earlier but can't find them now..hmmm...

I think people should always look at more then one website just to make sure they get it right.


In that case the challenge might of been called Low-Key instead of Black on Black to account for tonal ranges and colours other than gray to black.

Owen
06/20/2003 09:38:02 AM · #25
Originally posted by Sonifo:

I have one comment saying mine is their favorite. I wish more people would comment if they don't think it is low key.


I don't have any comments. How awful is that? Must be karma man....lol
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