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01/19/2007 12:37:44 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
This is still way too liberal a rule set. I advocate one that disallows the use of a camera (bury or burn the sensor, that sort of thing) -or better yet another set that prohibits publishing the entry altogether in a contest especially created for this. (should I or should I not follow up with a smiley?) |
I like Zeus' rules. ;) |
Roman Photography |
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01/19/2007 12:38:25 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Slight glitch in the ruleset:
Under "You may", the last line reads:
"include existing images or artwork as part of your composition as long as the entry does not appear to consist entirely of a pre-existing photograph in order to circumvent date or editing rules or fool the voters into thinking you actually captured the original photograph."
I don't think this is meant to be in the "You may" part. |
Why not? This is a rule regarding allowable content, and it is the same in advanced and basic; the minimal rules are rules regarding allowable editing, they haven't changed any of the content rules that I can see.
R. |
Oh. Duh! I read that wrong. For some reason I was thinking it meant you could add images to use as texture. WAY too early in the morning for me. I withdraw the comment and will go fix coffee..... |
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01/19/2007 12:40:29 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So can you in this rule set; YOU choose the contrast level, the saturation level, and the sharpness on all but the most basic cameras. |
LOL, I have shot in RAW since the first day I got my DSLR, so I forgot those parameters existed.
It's a pity my D50 can only shoot RAW+Basic JPEG (not RAW+Fine). :( I almost never shoot specifically for a challenge, so I would definitely not switch to JPEG only, for the fear of losing a good shot.
Ok, I'll stop complaining, let's give it a try, I suppose. :) |
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01/19/2007 12:43:28 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
It's a pity my D50 can only shoot RAW+Basic JPEG (not RAW+Fine). :( I almost never shoot specifically for a challenge, so I would definitely not switch to JPEG only, for the fear of losing a good shot.
Ok, I'll stop complaining, let's give it a try, I suppose. :) |
Basic JPG is just fine for this rule set; you won't be able to tell the difference. Anyone who shoots in RAW + Fine is just wasting memory, I think. If you shoot ONLY the JPG, then of course you want the larger-size file.
R.
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01/19/2007 12:47:56 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by yanko:
I think crayon would ribbon in that one. |
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
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01/19/2007 12:49:09 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Let's compare this set to basic shooting with film film, as much as possible.
- Any film photographer can choose various kinds of film, with different dynamic ranges and known different colour and tonal responses. A digital shooter is stuck with only one sensor, which has, more or less, linear responses, and the imperfect JPEG format, if RAW is disallowed.
- Any film photographer can compensate for small metering mistakes in the darkroom at the printing stage, but this rule set robs a digital shooter of this ability. |
If there was a challenge with 5 cameras on the table, some SLRs, some Rangefinders, and some pocket cameras. There also 5 different types of film (velvia, tmax, kodachrome, etc). Each person only got one roll of film and one came body. Are you telling me that the camera and roll of film is going to determine the outcome? I would think any good photography would still get wonderful pictures no matter the equipment (sensor). JPEG out of camera is pretty good these days.
As for metering mistakes. Isn't that what you can use the LCD and historgram for? It's not like you are only allowed to take one picture.
I like the idea of the new ruleset. Really, I think the idea is more to focus on composition, exposure, and basic photography techniques rather than relying on the darkroom. The digital darkroom is going to have its place, but this new ruleset fits very well considering the new expert ruleset. As a person who can't really compete on the photoshop level I am more than happy. |
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01/19/2007 12:55:25 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by jaysonmc:
Originally posted by agenkin:
Let's compare this set to basic shooting with film film, as much as possible.
- Any film photographer can choose various kinds of film, with different dynamic ranges and known different colour and tonal responses. A digital shooter is stuck with only one sensor, which has, more or less, linear responses, and the imperfect JPEG format, if RAW is disallowed.
- Any film photographer can compensate for small metering mistakes in the darkroom at the printing stage, but this rule set robs a digital shooter of this ability. |
If there was a challenge with 5 cameras on the table, some SLRs, some Rangefinders, and some pocket cameras. There also 5 different types of film (velvia, tmax, kodachrome, etc). Each person only got one roll of film and one came body. Are you telling me that the camera and roll of film is going to determine the outcome? I would think any good photography would still get wonderful pictures no matter the equipment (sensor). JPEG out of camera is pretty good these days.
As for metering mistakes. Isn't that what you can use the LCD and historgram for? It's not like you are only allowed to take one picture.
I like the idea of the new ruleset. Really, I think the idea is more to focus on composition, exposure, and basic photography techniques rather than relying on the darkroom. The digital darkroom is going to have its place, but this new ruleset fits very well considering the new expert ruleset. As a person who can't really compete on the photoshop level I am more than happy. |
Amen! I totally agree |
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01/19/2007 12:58:04 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by yanko:
I think crayon would ribbon in that one. |
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
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01/19/2007 01:04:04 AM · #109 |
Originally posted by jaysonmc:
Are you telling me that the camera and roll of film is going to determine the outcome? I would think any good photography would still get wonderful pictures no matter the equipment (sensor). JPEG out of camera is pretty good these days. |
Film definitely influences the outcome. I did not say that it's the main influence, of course. A good photographer knows and uses the strengths and weaknesses of his equipment.
Originally posted by jaysonmc:
I like the idea of the new ruleset. Really, I think the idea is more to focus on composition, exposure, and basic photography techniques rather than relying on the darkroom. The digital darkroom is going to have its place, but this new ruleset fits very well considering the new expert ruleset. As a person who can't really compete on the photoshop level I am more than happy. |
Oh, I'm ecstatic about the appearance of this rule set. I keep post-processing to absolute minimum when I shoot, and I almost never crop my images.
I just think that the rule set needs to be fine-tuned a little bit, to really leave the essential techniques and disallow all the rest. |
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01/19/2007 01:06:56 AM · #110 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
I just think that the rule set needs to be fine-tuned a little bit, to really leave the essential techniques and disallow all the rest. |
That's what they thought they were doing when they wrote the original basic rules. But so many people have been asking for straight-from-the-camera, I guess they came up with this. Let's give it a try :-)
R.
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01/19/2007 01:10:29 AM · #111 |
Originally posted by agenkin:
Oh, I'm ecstatic about the appearance of this rule set. I keep post-processing to absolute minimum when I shoot, and I almost never crop my images.
I just think that the rule set needs to be fine-tuned a little bit, to really leave the essential techniques and disallow all the rest. |
No harm no foul. Just misunderstood what you were saying. Us non-croppers should stick together. Cheers. :) |
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01/19/2007 01:11:38 AM · #112 |
I would like to add an opinion and probably state the bleeding obvious :)
I think this new ruleset is great addition to the variety of rulesets we now get to choose from. The discussions on this topic often develops around arguments as to whether one set is good or bad and seems to overlook the fact that this is just one more set amoungst a number of sets and just gives us one more option to challenge ourselves... if we want to.
I may not be totally ispired by the new ruleset myself but I'm more than happy that its being added for those who would find it challenging and enjoyable.
I love the way this site is evolving and growing :)
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01/19/2007 01:12:06 AM · #113 |
I find it kinda funny. When the expert ruleset came out there was complaining that it wasn't "photographic" enough. "Why even bother using a camera?" etc. Now we get the other end of the scale. "Minimal editing? How are we supposed to create a good image without editing? This is waaaay too restrictive"
The bottom line is now we have rulesets for the whole spectrum. Everything from more or less straight from the camera to highly processed submissions that blur the lines between art and photography. No one is forcing anyone into submitting to any particular ruleset. Go with the one that fits your style. Go with them all if you want.
For myself? I love the expert ruleset for the extra creative opportunities it creates. The minimal ruleset? I'll love it because it really takes out the post-processing skills involved and helps level the playing field a fair bit. I'm not saying that I don't ribbon because of my lack of PP skills but I am curious about how I stack up when its just the shot that came out of my camera against someone elses.
It um..also prevents me from screwing up an image in post-processing and wrecking it. (Case in point is my recent B&W Portrait entry which I am getting slammed for because of the dumb processing I did). Anyways, I think its great to hear that a lot of people who I believe are really good at the processing side are looking forward to this ruleset too.
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01/19/2007 01:17:55 AM · #114 |
One more note. For post processing steps it should be pretty much the same for everyone.
1.Downloaded the image to my computer.
2. Copied the original.
3. Resized to 640 by ?
4. Sharpened. (But not USM because that's illegal).
Unless of course you wish to do 4 then 3. Thats an option as well. You can also rotate. Thats pretty much it. I LOVE IT!!!! :)
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01/19/2007 01:26:59 AM · #115 |
Well, I've been motivated to clean my sensor anyway :-) I had one semi-annoying piece of dust in the lower right corner I've been ignoring for some time, since it often doesn't even show up at all (lower right corner usually is "busy", unlike the upper corners where my skies live) and it's easy to heal when I have to. Anyway I swabbed it out of there :-)
It's gonna take me a while to screw up the courage to run the 20D in "sepia" mode and use it for a minimal editing challenge, though :-)
R.
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01/19/2007 01:27:55 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
One more note. For post processing steps it should be pretty much the same for everyone.
1.Downloaded the image to my computer.
2. Copied the original.
3. Resized to 640 by ?
4. Sharpened. (But not USM because that's illegal).
Unless of course you wish to do 4 then 3. Thats an option as well. You can also rotate. Thats pretty much it. I LOVE IT!!!! :) |
Don't forget "Desaturated with the desaturate command"
R.
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01/19/2007 01:30:57 AM · #117 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Slight glitch in the ruleset:
Under "You may", the last line reads:
"include existing images or artwork as part of your composition as long as the entry does not appear to consist entirely of a pre-existing photograph in order to circumvent date or editing rules or fool the voters into thinking you actually captured the original photograph."
I don't think this is meant to be in the "You may" part. |
Why not? This is a rule regarding allowable content, and it is the same in advanced and basic; the minimal rules are rules regarding allowable editing, they haven't changed any of the content rules that I can see.
R. |
If we are going basic minimal photography then eliminate the use of other photographs as main or background use. Minimal photography is the entire setup, a finished photo as a part of or significant part of the background is getting around the concept of basic or minimal. No background pics allowed. |
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01/19/2007 01:32:20 AM · #118 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by yanko:
I think crayon would ribbon in that one. |
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
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darn good one, General.
So, who needs in-camera editing when you can do it on the real subject, eh? :)
a question - since unsharp-mask is not allowed, is Smart Sharpening allowed (the one from Photoshop CS2)? Thanks
crayon |
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01/19/2007 01:32:26 AM · #119 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by muckpond:
i'm not 100% about sharpen edges, but i would guess that's ok. |
Nope. Just plain old Sharpen. That's it. Sharpen edges is pseudo-selective. That's how I read it anyway.
Any discussion about what you can get away with misses the point. You shoot, resize it to 640px, hit sharpen once and submit. That's it. The only real exception is a very basic B&W conversion. |
So you cannot sharpen more than once if you wanted to? What about save for web? |
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01/19/2007 01:33:51 AM · #120 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by yanko:
I think crayon would ribbon in that one. |
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
You serious?
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01/19/2007 01:36:38 AM · #121 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
If we are going basic minimal photography then eliminate the use of other photographs as main or background use. Minimal photography is the entire setup, a finished photo as a part of or significant part of the background is getting around the concept of basic or minimal. No background pics allowed. |
So a head shot of my friend Alice with a large billboard filling the background is a no-no? How about a billboard with a steaming cup of coffee and carefully positioning the model so s/he appears to be lifting the coffee cup to taste it? What about backdrops? Is a plain black one OK? What about a paisley print? Can I pose you in front of a large piece of contemporary art?
See the problem?
R.
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01/19/2007 01:38:11 AM · #122 |
This sounds like fun! I think it's the perfect balance for the Expert ruleset... even though it'll probably be an eternity before I get to use them! The thing I love most about this site is that I have a hard time directing myself to practice techniques and compositions and the seemingly random set of themes and editing rules really make me 'stretch my wings' and use Wikipedia a lot to figure out what's going on - perfect for learning!
That cropping thing is going to be a huge challenge... I tend to shoot with a 'just get it in the frame and we'll 'compose' it later' mindframe.... I guess I'll just have to learn another way!
- C, ES
PS - proud to say, though, that I didn't crop my last challenge entry. Freakish of me, but true. |
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01/19/2007 01:41:23 AM · #123 |
Originally posted by Shakalaka:
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by yanko:
I think crayon would ribbon in that one. |
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
You serious? |
"Proving that Barbie is not just about clothes, shoes, and pink corvettes, Mattel has branched out to the world of computers with Barbie Photo Designer: Digital Camera & CD-ROM, a package that includes: a digital camera and customized software for uploading and editing your photos. The camera itself is about the size of a standard 35mm film camera, decorated in a metallic gray with a glittery pink and yellow flower around the lens. Six photos at 160 x 120 pixel resolution can be stored in the camera's memory at any one time, and a 9-volt battery (not included) is required for operation. A 9-pin serial port cable is included to connect the camera to your computer. The included software allows you to save the photos you've taken in a "scrapbook," as well as manipulate them in various ways. You can cut and paste yourself into one of several Barbie pictures, change the look of your photos with "fun effects," create a digital flip book, and perform some basic image editing such as cropping and erasing. Export photos for use in other software programs like Adobe Photoshop."
*************
The makeup mode appears to be part of the PP CD included in the package. Note the image pixel dimensions: a lordly 160x120 :-) And you can only do 6 before you have to tether to a computer and download. Anyone who can produce the goods with this camera deserves a ribbon...
R.
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01/19/2007 01:42:17 AM · #124 |
Why should rotating be allowed? If you're going to get this serious about straight out of the camera you should understand how to rotate your camera. I predict that a studio shot will win the first challenge covered by these rules.
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01/19/2007 01:44:35 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by Shakalaka:
Originally posted by crayon:
the camera allows "barbie make-up" mode where it puts make up on the face of the subject photographed, lol. moustache, anyone? :p |
You serious? |
i do know of some cameras with touch-screen that could do more than that.
However, i think there's a clause in the rules about "in-camera editing before or after the photo is take" to prevent this, right? right? maybe the SC should take this into consideration about the "anything is OK as long done in-camera"
Message edited by author 2007-01-19 01:48:52. |
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