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 06/05/2003 12:42:29 PM · #26
What 'rules problem'? I don't see a problem. People are debating. Things are as they should be.
 06/05/2003 12:43:05 PM · #27
Originally posted by timj351:
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by Gordon:


This is an important distinction that seems to be largely ignored by the people wanting no changes.


Ok you are ignoring the fact that in wanting more editing you are discriminating against those who don't have the money to purchase the software that others use? And before you suggest free downloads might I say if you have a site with photoshop or psp that is free and not just a trail version you can't even share it here for anyone who needs it cause of legal issues so again those who don't have it are discriminated against.


Please excuse my amusement. But as I was considering what you wrote I realized that it came from someone who has a $1000 camera. Surely you can spend a little more to get a program like PS Elements or many others that do plenty of good editing. Many are free as has already been mentioned. I assure you this is not about discrimination. Everyone has to start somewhere and nobody else ought to be held back because of it. You don't even need to do any major editing if you don't want to anyway.

T


It's not me I am thinking of I have PSP and most of the plug ins I need for photo editing but I know of others who don't and we can't direct them to the sites that have PSP or PS for free...except to share a link for trial version and that doesn't help anyone only teases them for 30 days
 06/05/2003 12:43:31 PM · #28
Originally posted by Jak:
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
[Ever try to download Gimp and install it to Windows XP? I have tried and tried but the program was orginally written for Mac users and does not tell which mirrors you need for each windows operating system only tells you you will need to download various mirrors and which mirror you have to have.


No, I haven't. But I am aware that hundreds of thousands of people have successfully downloaded it and are using it as their prime editing software, so I am sure it is not that hard.


It ain't that easy either. Besides, linux/X geeks don't count ;)

Anyway, first download and install this.
Then, once that complicated step is complete, download and install this.

You have now completed the complicated gimp install.
 06/05/2003 12:45:05 PM · #29
dwoolridge it would be very useful if you could start a new post called "How to install Gimp" so people know where to find the info :)
 06/05/2003 12:46:54 PM · #30
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
[Anyway, first download and install this.
Then, once that complicated step is complete, download and install this.

You have now completed the complicated gimp install.


Want to try to install it on my computer??? LMAO will crash it everytime those wher the exact directions I was given to install gimp and it doesn't work with XP or at least not with this computer.
 06/05/2003 12:47:13 PM · #31
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

It's not me I am thinking of I have PSP and most of the plug ins I need for photo editing but I know of others who don't and we can't direct them to the sites that have PSP or PS for free...except to share a link for trial version and that doesn't help anyone only teases them for 30 days


I hope that you will also be directing people as to where to steal their professional quality cameras as well because I feel I am being discriminated against for only having a G3.
 06/05/2003 12:53:27 PM · #32
Originally posted by mk:
[quote=OneSweetSin]


I hope that you will also be directing people as to where to steal their professional quality cameras as well because I feel I am being discriminated against for only having a G3.


my camera may be professional quality in your eyes but to most professionals they would laugh at my camera. The professional digitals start at $2000 and that is the low end of professional cameras. I only have mine cause my canon t70 died after years of use and I decided to go digital after trying out a few point and shoot digital cameras.
 06/05/2003 01:07:36 PM · #33
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by Gordon:


This is an important distinction that seems to be largely ignored by the people wanting no changes.


Ok you are ignoring the fact that in wanting more editing you are discriminating against those who don't have the money to purchase the software that others use? And before you suggest free downloads might I say if you have a site with photoshop or psp that is free and not just a trail version you can't even share it here for anyone who needs it cause of legal issues so again those who don't have it are discriminated against.


As I've posted several links to more than five completely legal, free alternatives, I still don't quite get your point here. I also posted links to 9 equivalent packages that are all under $50 or so.

Yes they do not have the professional print features, such as colour management, print seperations etc ,but nobody is talking about needing that in any of this discussion.

Message edited by author 2003-06-05 13:10:41.
 06/05/2003 01:12:23 PM · #34
Originally posted by Gordon:


As I've posted several links to completely legal, free alternatives, I still don't quite get your point here.


Point being is it fare to ask them to use programs that aren't as good as psp or ps just because they can't afford the program.

Someone forgot what this site is all about and they forget what it is like to be learning and they want to turn this in to a showcase for there work and forget everyone else is that fare?
 06/05/2003 01:16:19 PM · #35
First of all, the word is "fair." But what exactly is the point of this site, please? Because I see the word "challenge," not the word "classroom," so I'd be interested in knowing what this supposed point of the site is.

06/05/2003 01:19:50 PM · #36
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by Gordon:


As I've posted several links to completely legal, free alternatives, I still don't quite get your point here.


Point being is it fare to ask them to use programs that aren't as good as psp or ps just because they can't afford the program.

Someone forgot what this site is all about and they forget what it is like to be learning and they want to turn this in to a showcase for there work and forget everyone else is that fare?



Why do you assume that they are not as good ? Have you tried them ? I have. They do all the features I need to submit to dpc. I've even used them for submissions in the past. It is as fair or unfair as allowing people with different cameras to compete (there's that word again) against each other.
 06/05/2003 01:21:44 PM · #37
If the rules cant be changed because people cant afford the better editing programs should we elimate

1) studio shots (lighting equipment is expensive)
2) models shots ( not everybody has access to a beautiful lady/man, gives them an unfair advantage)
3) beautiful landscapes (I havent been able to find any nice mountains in Chicago)

I havent entered many challenges yet, but i think this sight is one of the best for seeing how other perceive your art.
 06/05/2003 01:25:14 PM · #38
Originally posted by Konador:
dwoolridge it would be very useful if you could start a new post called "How to install Gimp" so people know where to find the info :)


Awww, and I was having fun being snarky. Why you be all up in my shit?

Here's the new thread.
 06/05/2003 01:27:58 PM · #39
Originally posted by Shadow Eagle:


3) beautiful landscapes (I havent been able to find any nice mountains in Chicago).



Chicago has it's own beauty you just got to stop thinking mountains...Pitman did proved that with his entry in postcards...

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=20370
 06/05/2003 01:29:31 PM · #40
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Want to try to install it on my computer???

Sure, but you'll have to install VNC or let me do the new XP remote-take-over-your-computer-cause-you-are-much-too-trusting thing.

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
will crash it everytime those wher the exact directions I was given to install gimp and it doesn't work with XP or at least not with this computer.


I have XP on one of the boxes here and I installed it and ran it just fine. I should probably make it my editor of choice just on principle, but then again, my text editor is much faster.

Perhaps it's time to give up on Windows and stick with linux or one of the bsds.
 06/05/2003 01:41:05 PM · #41
Originally posted by mk:
First of all, the word is "fair." But what exactly is the point of this site, please? Because I see the word "challenge," not the word "classroom," so I'd be interested in knowing what this supposed point of the site is.


From "Help"/"About" on the menu bar:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed.

I think that most of us think that we can become better photographers by participating on this site.

If that is the point of this site, then maybe the site should state that point up front and add something like: "the images submitted for challenges should look like a photograph, not like digital art".

I think you get the idea. Then, less emphasis can be put on whether or not an image is illegally edited or not, the edit rules can be relaxed or discarded, and the voters can decide which image best meets the challenge under the above statement.
06/05/2003 02:13:46 PM · #42
Originally posted by goodtempo:

From "Help"/"About" on the menu bar:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed.

I think that most of us think that we can become better photographers by participating on this site.


Right. I see there "teach ourselves," not sit around and wait for other people to show us, step by step, what we should do, which is basically what people are asking for. It doesn't say that people won't use what they have access to or what they have the ability to do while we wait for the rest of the world to catch up. The point of a challenge is to make yourself better, not insist that everyone else cater to you until you are.
 06/05/2003 03:10:09 PM · #43
Originally posted by Shadow Eagle:
If the rules cant be changed because people cant afford the better editing programs should we elimate

1) studio shots (lighting equipment is expensive)
2) models shots ( not everybody has access to a beautiful lady/man, gives them an unfair advantage)
3) beautiful landscapes (I havent been able to find any nice mountains in Chicago)

I havent entered many challenges yet, but i think this sight is one of the best for seeing how other perceive your art.


I use some lights I got at home depot for $39, 1000 watts worth of lights....sound affordable to me

models...ummmmm i dont have access to them, but maybe soon, maybe not....

no mountains in Houston either, but I can still manage a nice landscape shot with out having to drive more than 35 miles from my house

James
 06/05/2003 03:17:22 PM · #44
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:



Point being is it fare to ask them to use programs that aren't as good as psp or ps just because they can't afford the program.




Whenever any change is proposed at dpc, invariably the arguments about 'fairness' and 'leveling the playing field' are being brought up. There really isn't 'fairness' to begin with, so live with it. If you have a top of the line camera you have more features available than if you shoot with a disposable. If during the submission week you were in the Seychelles Islands and made a lot of fabulous nature shots, you are out of luck if the challenge calls more for a studio shot. Some members study photography in college and others (most of them) just learn as they go along.

Members' results to a large degree reflect their commitment: willingness to invest in hardware and software, willingness to take the time to go to a certain location to shoot, willingness to learn, willingness to think up creative ideas and ways to execute them.

Message edited by author 2003-06-05 15:18:01.
 06/05/2003 03:51:29 PM · #45
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
It's not me I am thinking of I have PSP and most of the plug ins I need for photo editing but I know of others who don't and we can't direct them to the sites that have PSP or PS for free...except to share a link for trial version and that doesn't help anyone only teases them for 30 days


Please, OSS, give up this arguement. Since you're not argueing for yourself, as you just stated, let it rest. If anyone who is actually in the situation you describe - they feel they have no access to some sort of editing software - let them speak up, and then you can support them. But as far as I can recall, you're the only one making the arguement, so the fact that you say it doesn't even apply to you just saps the life out of the more important parts of the debate.

The point has been made, and probably agreed to by most if not all who opposed a rules change: credible alternatives to PS exist. Lets move on....
 06/05/2003 03:52:51 PM · #46
Originally posted by jab119:
Originally posted by Shadow Eagle:
If the rules cant be changed because people cant afford the better editing programs should we elimate

1) studio shots (lighting equipment is expensive)
2) models shots ( not everybody has access to a beautiful lady/man, gives them an unfair advantage)
3) beautiful landscapes (I havent been able to find any nice mountains in Chicago)

I havent entered many challenges yet, but i think this sight is one of the best for seeing how other perceive your art.


I use some lights I got at home depot for $39, 1000 watts worth of lights....sound affordable to me

models...ummmmm i dont have access to them, but maybe soon, maybe not....

no mountains in Houston either, but I can still manage a nice landscape shot with out having to drive more than 35 miles from my house

James


This is funny because I just bought the same lighting setup from Home Depot. 1000 watts (two 500 watt lamps) of halagen light on an adjustable swiveling stand for $40. It even included an extra 500 watt bulb. It can shine from just inside my kitchen into the dining room where I can have my subject and I can easily hang a sheet or other thin material between the two rooms for one of the largest softboxes around. Very bright, very even lighting for cheap. Can't beat that. Anyone need a portrait done?

T
 06/05/2003 03:56:27 PM · #47
None of my 'studio' shots have involved my spending any money whatsoever - other than the camera of course.

ed
 06/05/2003 04:05:06 PM · #48
Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
It's not me I am thinking of I have PSP and most of the plug ins I need for photo editing but I know of others who don't and we can't direct them to the sites that have PSP or PS for free...except to share a link for trial version and that doesn't help anyone only teases them for 30 days


Please, OSS, give up this arguement. Since you're not argueing for yourself, as you just stated, let it rest. If anyone who is actually in the situation you describe - they feel they have no access to some sort of editing software - let them speak up, and then you can support them. But as far as I can recall, you're the only one making the arguement, so the fact that you say it doesn't even apply to you just saps the life out of the more important parts of the debate.

The point has been made, and probably agreed to by most if not all who opposed a rules change: credible alternatives to PS exist. Lets move on....


Well excuse me but those were comments made by others in another thread, which I agree with completely, MONEY is a big factor in getting the better software. I can name a few other reasons for not changing things, but then I would be stooping to the level of others here and singling out others, as I repeatedly have happen to me but I can't lock a thread like others can when they are being singled out or losing a debate on this issue, I have to deal with it.
06/05/2003 04:08:52 PM · #49
What thread got locked by who because they were losing a debate? I'll unlock it if you can show me...
 06/05/2003 04:17:44 PM · #50
the thread that should have stayed locked and been forgotten last night but you opened it back up and continued the fighting...it should have stayed locked as should all the threads on the subject matter rather than starting a discussion that will eventually end up in an fight put it up for a vote....but stop waiting a few weeks and starting the arguement all over again. It happens every couple of weeks, usually after a DQ...follow the rules and stop trying to change them everytime someone gets a DQ! simple as that...the whole matter should be locked on all the threads and ended till either a poll is taken or as Terry suggested in one of these threads try it out with a monthly challenge!

All we are doing is fighting between two groups those for and those against and causing a lot of unnecessary grief if you have the power to lock a thread when you don't like where it is going lock all the threads on the matter! End the fighting that started with a suggestion that keeps appearing every few weeks by locking them all!
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