Religion - DPChallenge Forums

05/09/2003 12:26:38 AM · #51

Originally posted by Journey:

Again, please keep religion and politics out of the challenges. If there were a religion challenge, not only would i not submit nor vote, i even would not LOOK at the submissions.

And I would think that is your choice.

On the other points you made, I tend to agree.

edited to add that Journey added the PS after this was posted originally. I don't necessarily agree with it.

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 10:05:30.

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

05/09/2003 01:46:50 AM · #52

Journey: i think you're expecting too much on here. This goes waaaayyyyy back to the discussion on SCORING numbers ago when I have basically decided that since people seem to vote well for photos that they *LIKE* subjectively and vote down for photos they don't like subjectively (given the same quality of photo, technically), i might as well vote 1 for photos i don't like and 10 for photos that i like. In the end, i don't think people are going to be objective enough to vote on something they don't agree with.

Then people get offended for comments that you wrote telling them that you don't like their photos for this reason or another and they take it personally.

It's funny that you mentioned the 7 deadly sins :) I had one submission that was basically technically crap but for some reason only a few people commented on that, and most people said it was "offensive" to their religious beliefs, and when I find a photo that was offensive to my religious beliefs and commented on it, people jumped on THAT instead because it wasn't about Christianity. Gee, i smelled a pattern.

Anachronite

Sony DSC-S85

05/09/2003 01:56:35 AM · #53

I can't believe people would be afraid of a religeon challenge... even if your not religeous, can't you look at a photo, see if it meets the challenge, and then judge it with an unbiased opinion based on the photos merits??? heck lets discuss religeon and politics... two subjects people are passionate about... they always make for intense conversations... just remember though, everyone is entitiled to their own opinion and many of us will never agree... but who cares.... too each his or her own and to hell with those who think otherwise... being politically correct is really boring!

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

05/09/2003 07:36:42 AM · #54

Originally posted by Anachronite:

... even if your not religeous, can't you look at a photo, see if it meets the challenge, and then judge it with an unbiased opinion based on the photos merits???

No there are people here who can't be objective enough to do that. I can even prove that people vote down things they don't like without even looking at it for its technical merit.

matt betea

Nikon D100

05/09/2003 09:12:27 AM · #55

Exactly Anna. I don't have a religious bone in my body. Personally I think it would be a neat challenge to see people's views on religion around the world, or their take on it. But in reality, it wouldn't go over to well. For example, how do you think a photo of a priest smiling with a wad of cash in his hand, that technically was done good. Do you think it would score high at all?

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

05/09/2003 09:33:53 AM · #56

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Originally posted by Anachronite:
... even if your not religeous, can't you look at a photo, see if it meets the challenge, and then judge it with an unbiased opinion based on the photos merits???

No there are people here who can't be objective enough to do that. I can even prove that people vote down things they don't like without even looking at it for its technical merit.

However people voted, i'm sure they would do it equally across the board and not have a negative impact on the whole process...

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

05/09/2003 09:50:37 AM · #57

Originally posted by matt betea:

You and I both know that would offend a large group of people. Myself I would actually enjoy that photo cause it does show the real truth behind certain religions. At the fear of causing a major debate another photo that would cause quite a stir could be very harmless but with the problems going on within the church imagine a photo of a priest with his arm around a teenage boy.

It could actually be a case of spiritual growth but because of things going on in certain parishes the photo would be voted down because it would make some think of the charges against the priests in sexual abuse cases and many people would not be able to understand it was a photo of spiritual growth and not a photo of the latter.

Religion is just like politics and it really doesn't belong here, there is to much diversification among the members and to many touchy issues within the subject. I'm sure there could be an approach to this that would not offend anyone but to say religion in a whole I know there would be those who would vote down certain types of photos without even considering the technical merit of the photos.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

05/09/2003 09:55:50 AM · #58

Why dosn't religion and politics belong here? If we consider what we do 'art' then we have to be open minded...

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 09:57:07.

05/09/2003 10:03:06 AM · #59

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Why dosn't religion and politics belong here? If we consider what we do 'art' then we have to be open minded...

At the fear of opening up a can of worms that I'd like to keep closed, look at the comments on this photo and also the score and see how many ones were given

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=18191

You will find that some people just can't rate a photo on its technical merit and only on how they feel. A religion challenge would create the same negative reactions, with things they don't believe in and I can already see all the photos of statues and idols and after the first 40 or so I can see comments being made like "Too many statues and they are boring I am giving you a 1 for lack of creativity." Which simply states the person isn't even looking at the technical merit, sad to say but yes there are a lot here who do just that!

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

05/09/2003 10:09:22 AM · #60

Okay, Drew and Langdon, your job is getting tougher. Now, not only are pets/children/flags/sunsets/flowers cliche, religion and politics are taboo. The choices are getting slimmer and slimmer. And ya'll wonder why people are afraid to think outside of the box.

I think I'll enter a religious picture in each challenge from now on. :-)

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/09/2003 10:18:16 AM · #61

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=18191

You put up an emotionally charged, nationalistic themed picture, during a (fairly widely condemed) war.

It isn't so surprising that it attracted attention other than technical merit.

On the flip side, I think you probably also got a lot of 9s and 10s that were emotionally scored, rather than on pure merit either.

I'd see a lot of those ones as meaning you actually got a response from people. If the shots had no impact/ no 'wow' then the scores would be all 4s or 5s. I'd consider it a success if any of my pictures picked up negative or positive reactions rather than apathy.

It depends on if you think a successful picture communicates something to the viewer, or gets the highest popularity rating. Some consider what we are doing making photographs as trying to create art. Good art has emotional impact. Others just prefer to think of it as taking pictures and art has nothing to do with it. Both views are equally valid but certainly cause a lot of gnashing of teeth and discomfort.

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 10:23:53.

KarenB

Canon EOS-70D

05/09/2003 10:24:29 AM · #62

I agree with Karmat. There are too many personal restrictions. It is a shame that there seems to be a lot of interest in taking pictures, but the goal of Photography is lost on many.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/09/2003 10:25:49 AM · #63

Originally posted by Gordon:

I'd see a lot of those ones as meaning you actually got a response from people. If the shots had no impact/ no 'wow' then the scores would be all 4s or 5s. I'd consider it a success if any of my pictures picked up negative or positive reactions rather than apathy.

It depends on if you think a successful picture communicates something to the viewer, or gets the highest popularity rating.

Well-put. It's one reason I'd rather see the score distribution graph during the voting instead of just the arithmetic mean...I'd like to know if the 4.x average is from 1s and 9s or 3-4-5s...

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 10:26:10.

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

05/09/2003 10:59:40 AM · #64

I'd say other than weasels in France and Germany (and pardon me, people in England), it was a rather popular war :)

over 70% of the American people supported the war, BTW.

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=18191

You put up an emotionally charged, nationalistic themed picture, during a (fairly widely condemed) war.

It isn't so surprising that it attracted attention other than technical merit.

On the flip side, I think you probably also got a lot of 9s and 10s that were emotionally scored, rather than on pure merit either.

I'd see a lot of those ones as meaning you actually got a response from people. If the shots had no impact/ no 'wow' then the scores would be all 4s or 5s. I'd consider it a success if any of my pictures picked up negative or positive reactions rather than apathy.

It depends on if you think a successful picture communicates something to the viewer, or gets the highest popularity rating. Some consider what we are doing making photographs as trying to create art. Good art has emotional impact. Others just prefer to think of it as taking pictures and art has nothing to do with it. Both views are equally valid but certainly cause a lot of gnashing of teeth and discomfort.

myqyl

Nikon D3100

05/09/2003 11:03:47 AM · #65

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic (still can't get it right :) and I gotta say you're nuts. The Catholics have built some of the most interesting buildings, painted some of worlds most awesome murals, and sculpted vast numbers of sculptures throughout the last 2 millennium. Granted, there is also a lot of dime store knock offs of the great masterpieces in most parish churches, but most cities world wide have a fair share of the real stuff. Look for your local cathedral.

Regardless of how folks feel about religion in general or Catholics specifically, the contribution the church has made to art is obvious.

On a side note, I find it interesting that folks have a problem with religon as a challenge topic but had no objection to Sin...

EDIT NOTE : Of course beer is a religion! Unfortunately for this challenge, someone will also argue the they worship their cat, flowers, kids, flag, the color blue, muffins and muscle cars. So it would likely become an open challenge. Of course I would be disappointed if at least ONE athiest didn't take a shot of their lens cap :)

Originally posted by Jacko:

I'm a Roman Catholic; non practising. Most of our objects are boring, but some other Religions like Buddhism and Hinduism have pretty funky stuff. However, I'd have a hard time finding any of those in small town Eastern Canada where I live.

Wait a minute. Is beer still considered a religion? I think it was when I went to college. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddism, and Beer. Lots of that around here.

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 11:10:46.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/09/2003 11:04:07 AM · #66

Originally posted by paganini:

I'd say other than weasels in France and Germany (and pardon me, people in England), it was a rather popular war :)

over 70% of the American people supported the war, BTW.

This is not the place to discuss the perceived merit (or lack thereof) of the war in Iraq. We have plenty of other threads for that, or you are welcome to start one in the rant forum.

The purpose of this thread is to determine whether it is worthwhile to run a religion challenge.

-Terry

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

05/09/2003 11:06:47 AM · #67

Originally posted by paganini:

I'd say other than weasels in France and Germany (and pardon me, people in England), it was a rather popular war :)

over 70% of the American people supported the war, BTW.

I'm not interested in starting yet another pro/anti war thread.

I was only pointing out that posting nationalistic pictures during a time of war, on an international site, and not expecting some kind of emotional response is unlikely. The fact that the US was pro or anti the war is not relevant to that issue.

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

05/09/2003 11:40:11 AM · #68

Also, I think if people KNEW it was a religion challenge, then there would be more license to explore these types of topics, as opposed to 'a religious statement where it does not belong' type of thing.

:)

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

05/09/2003 12:02:28 PM · #69

You know this challenge could fall into the catagory of Pet Peeves that didn't get much attention a few weeks ago when someone suggested it. I already am cringing at the thought of a certain thing that I am sure there will be several of if there is a challenge involving religion and I know photographically speaking it is a big pet peeve to see this one certain thing photographed over and over the way it is. Oh maybe I should just turn my bathtub on its end in my yard too and place a statue in it and photograph it.....yep there you have it my pet peeve involving this kind of a challenge is all those bathtubs turned up on their ends with the statue in it in the garden.

Journey

Canon PowerShot G3

05/09/2003 12:08:50 PM · #70

I'm going back to some previous comments here. Karmat, yes, you can submit a religious theme to any challenge you want :) That's the beauty of those generic, 'open', challenges. They leave lots of room for interpretation.

I go back to what jmsetzler said about what we're doing here is art and we have to be openminded and also to my previous comment that when you have an Emotive challenge most entries are clichÃ© but that, fortunately, a few emotive submissions find their way in every challenge. In a Religion challenge most entries will be safe and/or clichÃ© and featuring the established symbols of religion, church, cross, madonna, a few buddha statues, etc. Someone may submit a technically and artistically superb shot of a donkey and it is titled God Is A Donkey (this is a purely HYPOTHETICAL example). This person sincerely believes that the concept of god and religion is an invention by man because man has a need to justify his fears of the unknowns of life and death. He feels that in the name of god and religion a great deal of suffering has taken place. He therefore finds man a little stupid to relegate his responsibility for living behind a concept of god and religion. He also believes that the dpcvoter is open-minded enough that HIS opinion will be respected just as the opinion of the catholic and the protestant would. So, rather than having a 6-sentence title he settles for God Is A Donkey. Are you telling me that you honestly believe this superb shot would do well at dpc? The comments he will get will be about the artistic merits of this picture? :)

Let me use another example where someone took a risk in the generic Travel challenge. The paucity of the comments and the preponderance of 5 votes show that most people didn't get it and dismissed it as a snapshot. The submitter said SO MUCH with this shot which to me is more important than the perfect dof or the appropriate aperture or other technicalities. What did he get? 75/131. Well behind a number of shots that merely documented a road, a plane, etc.

Message edited by author 2003-05-09 12:19:06.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

05/09/2003 12:23:24 PM · #71

Wait a minute. Is beer still considered a religion? I think it was when I went to college. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddism, and Beer. Lots of that around here.[/quote]

Hey Jacko...How do you think the Budda got so fat?! lol

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

05/09/2003 12:37:23 PM · #72

i dont know how to respond to this, lol. I have to tell you I can count the number of people I know with a bath tub outside in their yard on fewer than one finger :)

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

05/09/2003 12:41:06 PM · #73

I think that the person who submitted such a pic would have a pretty realistic idea that it might not WIN but would enjoy the reaction and conversation it might generate :)

Religion challenge for some reason to me seems more about sharing ideas than it does about winning. but that's just me :)

Originally posted by Journey:

So, rather than having a 6-sentence title he settles for God Is A Donkey. Are you telling me that you honestly believe this superb shot would do well at dpc? The comments he will get will be about the artistic merits of this picture? :)

05/09/2003 12:47:27 PM · #74

LOL I wish I had a photo to share with you of this but I have seen at least 5 of them in the small town I grew up in, I even know the families names to this day that had these. I seriously have seen some beautiful sculptures and statues of the Madonna but there are these five in this little town in Central Pennsylvania where she is inside an old claw foot bathtub for all to see in the front lawn. The one family used to send out a Christmas card every year of this and all I can say to this day is it was so TACKY!!!

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

i dont know how to respond to this, lol. I have to tell you I can count the number of people I know with a bath tub outside in their yard on fewer than one finger :)

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
You know this challenge could fall into the catagory of Pet Peeves that didn't get much attention a few weeks ago when someone suggested it. I already am cringing at the thought of a certain thing that I am sure there will be several of if there is a challenge involving religion and I know photographically speaking it is a big pet peeve to see this one certain thing photographed over and over the way it is. Oh maybe I should just turn my bathtub on its end in my yard too and place a statue in it and photograph it.....yep there you have it my pet peeve involving this kind of a challenge is all those bathtubs turned up on their ends with the statue in it in the garden.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7