Relevance to the Challenge - DPChallenge Forums

09/26/2002 12:22:08 PM · #51

I think that the point everyone is missing is that the challenge guidelines should STATE that "there is room for interpretation" when that is the case, so that literal minded voters among us can be reassured by the Admins that it's "OK" to give a decent score to a pic that's a little more loose in interpretation.

Originally posted by Journey:
There's nothing wrong with the way the challenges are worded. They leave room for interpretation which is good and it makes it more interesting to look at 200+ submissions.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/26/2002 12:32:24 PM · #52

Originally posted by Journey:
There's nothing wrong with the way the challenges are worded. They leave room for interpretation which is good and it makes it more interesting to look at 200+ submissions. What isn't so good is that some people narrowly define the challenges and then vote down submissions that don't meet that narrow definition.

There's also the issue of taste. It's perfectly okay to give someone a
low score because you don't like it. What I don't find particularly
helpful is getting a comment where someone tells me what is wrong and
tells me how to fix it. What he/she sees as "wrong" in the subject
matter is exactly why I was interested in the shot and also probably
why someone gave me a 10. The comment reminded me of the Change This,
Change That thread. What the comment described I ought to have done
was such that I wouldn't have been interested in taking the shot at all.

And that is fine. It doesn't mean the commenter was wrong either. You've
put your picture out there and requested people give you comments on
them, they are telling you - well, I don't like what you've done, I
think I'd prefer it this way or that way. You've asked them to express
their opinion - it doesn't mean you have to agree, but there isn't
anything wrong with someone telling you that they'd prefer things done
differently. Also it is useful to hear about how someone else might
want to frame it - it might have been something you hadn't thought about.

If it is, or you think about it and reject it, that's fine too.

aelith

Olympus C-3020Z

09/26/2002 12:32:32 PM · #53

I've always thought an artist's interpertation of a challenge was a matter of Choice. Because that affects style. Style is individual expression. Self expression is art.

Journey

Canon PowerShot G3

09/26/2002 12:42:07 PM · #54

Magnetic, yes that might be helpful and I would like to see that advice added to the challenges. Still, I think some people think so much in stereotypes that anything falling outside those will be viewed by them as "not meeting the challenge".

If you would be specific in wording the challenge and say the challenge is "horse" an image of a polar bear would definitely not meet the challenge. But then there would also be folks who would see pictures of the knight in the chess game as not meeting the challenge or a fine still life involving the gear of a horse rider without actually showing the horse.

09/26/2002 12:47:24 PM · #55

I think we should go to ONE WORD challenge topics with NO explanation of the topic at all... ie:

BLUE
FORK
WATER
LIFE
GAMES
NATURE
MUSIC
HARMNOY
DISCORD
TECHNOLOGY
TRANSPORTATION
LOVE
HATE
FUN
ACTION

Maybe it IS the limited description that creates all the various issues each week.

The guidelines, whether they be loose or strict are what causes the 'doesn't meet the challenge' issue...

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/26/2002 12:46:58 PM.

Jak

Fujifilm FinePix S602Z

09/26/2002 12:56:55 PM · #56

"literal minded voters among us can be reassured by the Admins that it's "OK" to give a decent score to a pic"

This is possibly the most bizarre thing I have ever read outside of a sect. Why would one need the admins OK for any score? Do you think the admins rate your score? Do you really worry what the admins think of you? Hmmmmm.

Journey

Canon PowerShot G3

09/26/2002 12:58:00 PM · #57

That's funny. I wrote a similar post in another forum while you were posting this and some of the topics were the same as well.

09/26/2002 01:04:36 PM · #58

The 'blurb' on the challenge topic each wee is what introduces the problem of misinterpretations. A one word topic with no 'guidelines' would give the photographer complete freedom and the voter would not be forced to determine if any guidelines were met that are specified in the 'blurb'.

aelith

Olympus C-3020Z

09/26/2002 01:08:24 PM · #59

You have a good point John but don't forget how well FEAR went over. ;0

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

09/26/2002 01:12:57 PM · #60

maybe i did not phrase this clearly.

here is an example:

challenge is 'fruits and vegetables.' someone shoots a picture of a pair of panties with a cherry on them. Under current conditions, our poor literal-minded voter (LMV) says 'hey that's not a real fruit, im lowering the score.'

BUT, in the Utopia proposed by magnetic9999, LMV has read the challenge guideline which says 'In this challenge, liberal interpretations are acceptable." "Hooray!" exclaims LMV. "The powers that be have given their stamp of approval. I can open my mind and not be a hair-splitter."

Maybe you and I don't need this kind of validation, but believe me, as someone who has been on this site for a looong time now, I can tell you that a lot of people are really rigid sticklers for what that little box on the front page says.

(A sect, huh? That's a telling statement in and of itself. I havent read too much sect documentation, have you? Which sect would you be referring to? Do they happen to wear purple outfits ? ;) )....

Originally posted by jakking:
"literal minded voters among us can be reassured by the Admins that it's "OK" to give a decent score to a pic"

This is possibly the most bizarre thing I have ever read outside of a sect. Why would one need the admins OK for any score? Do you think the admins rate your score? Do you really worry what the admins think of you? Hmmmmm.

myqyl

Nikon D3100

09/26/2002 01:13:31 PM · #61

Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
The 'blurb' on the challenge topic each wee is what introduces the problem of misinterpretations. A one word topic with no 'guidelines' would give the photographer complete freedom and the voter would not be forced to determine if any guidelines were met that are specified in the 'blurb'.

I don't think voters are 'forced' to interpute challenges in rigid, narrow ways... I think some (a small minority I believe) just live to say "Does not meet the challenge = 1"

Chalk it up to human nature and let them live in their own rigid, narrow minded corner of the world :) Scores are just a number, it's the photo that counts :)

09/26/2002 01:16:36 PM · #62

But, if there are no guidelines, there would be no real need for literal interpretations. For the interpretation to be literal, there have to be guidelines...

09/26/2002 01:18:36 PM · #63

i would think this would be a good idea except that the obvious fallout would be tons of AGONIZING in the forums.

for example for discord: "If I show a C tuning fork and an F# tuning fork together, will people GET IT?!?!?!?!"

<smacks forehead>

Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
I think we should go to ONE WORD challenge topics with NO explanation of the topic at all... ie:

BLUE
FORK
WATER
LIFE
GAMES
NATURE
MUSIC
HARMNOY
DISCORD
TECHNOLOGY
TRANSPORTATION
LOVE
HATE
FUN
ACTION

Maybe it IS the limited description that creates all the various issues each week.

The guidelines, whether they be loose or strict are what causes the 'doesn't meet the challenge' issue...

kathleenm

Canon EOS-D60

09/26/2002 01:26:18 PM · #64

Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]
<smacks forehead>

<hands mag a helmet> :-D

camelotnorth

Nikon D70

09/26/2002 01:52:02 PM · #65

Originally posted by ABC:
One other thing....if the photos must remain annonymous until the close,so should the voter's comments.

I must say that this week I purposely unchecked my votes and comments in the preference part of my profile so I wouldn't know how I was scoring until I finished voting on all the photos. It was like a big weight being lifted and I found voting a pleasure for the first time.
I would also like to say that not all of us have neat buildings and scenery to shoot and also there are no children for miles for me. I have learned a lot from this challenge and find that I am trying new techniques and taking many more photos. A nice rating is good but the learning experence is priceless.

Jak

Fujifilm FinePix S602Z

09/26/2002 02:12:27 PM · #66

"(A sect, huh? That's a telling statement in and of itself. I havent read too much sect documentation, have you? Which sect would you be referring to? Do they happen to wear purple outfits ? ;) )...."

Any sect that thinks other people should tell them what to do is fine. No uniforms needed.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

09/26/2002 02:42:17 PM · #67

Originally posted by jakking:

Any sect that thinks other people should tell them what to do is fine. No uniforms needed.

Well, guess what then? A lot of people on this site look to the guidelines for how to assess the merit of a picture. Guess that makes it a sect. Anyway, doesn't matter what you call it. Since that's the case, there has to be better guidelines.

:)

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

09/26/2002 03:37:46 PM · #68

all right, i don't want to chime in but somehow i feel compelled. i guess you'd classify me as a LMV ... i LIKE the challenges that are specific because it makes it a more even playing field and encourages people to be creative within the given limits. i still think pencils was one of the more narrowly defined challenge (and yes, i think a horses' pencil was not within the intent of the challenge and therefore didn't meet the challenge), but pencils also resulted in the most creative photos i've seen together in one challenge.

i would've liked 'my corner' to be more specific by asking us to "submit a photo that could be used as a postcard representing your corner of the world." i think it's the addition of "it could be as small as something in your bedroom or as big as a monument" (i'm paraphrasing here) that seems to be causing all the confusion.

ok, i'll be quiet now that i got this off my chest. let the arguments begin :)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/26/2002 03:48:57 PM · #69

I tried to get outside the 'literal' interpretation of the "something new" challenge with my Needful Things photograph. This was a 'conceptual' interpretation of 'something new' and it was my lowest scoring photo...

syamjonimi

Kodak Z740

09/26/2002 04:14:53 PM · #70

Hi all;

This challenge, IMO, has the greatest display of photography since I joined the site. I personally, haven't found anything to score as less than average. Even the photo I submitted, that I was wishing I had unsubmitted, is doing better than average. ( and Mr Setzler gave it a 9-----I'd like to discuss this after the challenge) Most of the photos this week are extremely well done. I think this should be a high scoring week and The competition this week is absolutely amazing.

lionelm

Canon EOS-10D

09/26/2002 05:25:28 PM · #71

I am confused when you say that you do not have anything below the average. I do not have a 1 so far (voted half of the;) but I hqve 2s and 3s like the other weeks.
Lionel

MarkRob

Canon EOS-50D

09/26/2002 06:45:50 PM · #72

I have to go now.... I am off to California... apparently EVERYTHING to be photographed is there (and yes, I got the same "I can see this in CA".

Maybe next week's challenge should be CALIFORNIA - we all have something that we can photograph. <smacks magnetic's head. for fun>

syamjonimi

Kodak Z740

09/26/2002 10:39:21 PM · #73

Originally posted by lionelm:
I am confused when you say that you do not have anything below the average. I do not have a 1 so far (voted half of the;) but I hqve 2s and 3s like the other weeks.
Lionel

I've completed my voting and only found two pictures I rated lower than 5 and they both received a 4. I just think this is a really good collection of photographs for the My Corner challenge. Maybe I'm just in a better than normal mood this week. I can't remember being this impressed with the entire challenge collection in the short few months since I have been a member.