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09/16/2002 04:09:10 PM · #26 |
I am sorry, did someone say something? I wasn't paying attention.
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09/16/2002 04:11:56 PM · #27 |
" ...There is the influence that art media creates in our society and when that can include children then this grandmother will stand up and speak out..."
... and say that a beautiful young woman and a perfect apple were combined by a brilliant photographer to create an image that involved no violence of any sort to any sentient being, and which pleased a great many people, male and female. |
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09/16/2002 04:20:16 PM · #28 |
| Love the black and white version with the red apple. Congratulations!! |
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09/16/2002 04:27:44 PM · #29 |
| Congrats John, and we know that you love B & W but I think the color version of this shot is much warmer and superior. Great job!! |
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09/16/2002 04:28:25 PM · #30 |
I don't know how to respond to Ruth's last comments... I could take the stance of "I'll continue to contribute to the corruption of minors" or the "I'll stick to flowers, butterflies, and sunsets as subjects."
I suppose it's a no win argument either way I go. If I want to make someone like Ruth happy, I would have to exclude certain elements of my photography hobby that I really enjoy. If I want to make myself happy, I have to pursue things that interest me.
I don't see my photography as a statement to society. I haven't been doing this long enough to believe that my individual work is having an impact, good or bad, on anyone. I suppose that this last photo is part of the collective evil socitey that Ruth would like to protect her grandchildren from.
One thing that I DO appreciate is the fact that my photo had enough impact on Ruth to draw comments from her :) The problem is that what she sees in this image and what I intended her to see are not the same thing. I did not effectively communicate with her. When I shot this photo, My intention was to create an interpretation of the Original Sin. To be quite honest, the thought of children becoming psychotic about their own appearance never crossed my mind. Maybe it's just to late to save me...
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09/16/2002 04:47:19 PM · #31 |
John, I hope none of us give in to the facist thought police. We could just as easly get someone complaining about a picture of a cross, and how much violence and division religion as caused.
I am sorry she sees the world the way she does, but that is her loss. This was not a Britney Spears or Pink video, it is great art. People should not be ashamed of a beauty, nor be sheltered from it. Are we only supposed to show people that will make us feel better about ourselves? I would rather see something I can admire.
I love the way the skin looks in the black and white, but the apple is too much of a contrast in color for my tastes, and it would be too subtle all in black and white. All I can say is excellent job, and this just gives me one more reason to hate you. :)
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09/16/2002 04:52:00 PM · #32 |
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09/16/2002 05:00:46 PM · #33 |
It's a shame when people are more offended by a picture of a woman (who is tastefully covered up) than they are of violence in the media (like the simpsons for example). To me an image of a woman 20 lbs overweight in the same manner would be just as appealing.
I would hope that the image would have the same impact if the woman weren't quite so perfect.
Oh what I would have done to have lived in the old days... I have a Reubanesque figure.. I'd be a hottie hehe |
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09/16/2002 05:01:36 PM · #34 |
Ruth, your message al reductio is
"don't photograph anything beautiful"
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09/16/2002 05:15:43 PM · #35 |
| I think this body fits this apple best. |
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09/16/2002 05:20:13 PM · #36 |
Personally, I feel I have responsibility to do whatever the heck I wanna do. My momma raised a good egg. I don't owe no-photo-Ruth or her overly sensitive nay sayers anything other than my view of things. If a young lady shoves her finger down her throat after every meal, then I blame her parents. If a young man treats all women like material objects, then I blame his parents.
Pointing fingers is a poor excuse for accountability. Instead of asking other people to change their level of influence, why don't you change yours? Putting down other people's work doesn't count.
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09/16/2002 05:30:42 PM · #37 |
Ruth, feel free to say it with a photo. They let everyone enter. Lets see your photo. Yes thats a challenge.
Tim |
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09/16/2002 05:50:02 PM · #38 |
I think Ruth's message (or if not hers, mine) is to be aware that your images exist in a worldly context, and could have influence.
That doesn't require you to change either your image or your message, but it does require you to acknowledge its (potential) influence, and to accept responibility for any consequences -- whether positive or negative. I TRY and imbue my photos with messages (see Priceless...), but I happen to usually choose what I consider to be positive messages, so I don't get many complaints.
This reminds me of the issue of whether pro athletes have an "obligation to be role models." Well, they ARE role models as a consequence of their job, it's just a question of choosing what kind to be. Your image will influence SOMEBODY as soon as you show it to someone other than yourself.
I'm strongly against censorship, and I had NO problem with any of the photos submitted...I think I gave nothing less than a 4. But if you're going to create art for public display, I don't think it hurts to step back and look at the work somewhat "objectively," and make sure any "messages" included are deliberate, and not unconsciously stereotypical or unintentionally offensive.
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/16/2002 5:55:16 PM. |
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09/16/2002 06:13:08 PM · #39 |
| ......he could get a fatter girl friend...... |
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09/16/2002 06:31:59 PM · #40 |
First of all, I too would like to thank everyone for the votes and wonderful comments on John's photo this week. It means alot to both of us.
Secondly, let me say that this is MY body in this photo, and I will be the first to say that it was never intended to be a "look at me... don't you wish it was you photo". I don't starve myself to look like this, nor do I dwell on how my body looks. There is a tight crop on this photo. You certainly can't see all the flaws in this photo. There are multitudes of them.
I might add that if John had wanted it to be about nudity, there are other models he could use that would allow him to photograph them in their entirety. As MOST of you have seen, John doesn't go with the norm of photography, and he certainly is not into snapshots. Not that he doesn't score them highly, because he often does, but it isn't what he strives for. This photo was simply meant to be a creative perspective of a fruit shot. There was a better shot that we both liked, but the subject THE APPLE was not as prominent in that one.
I apologize if this offended anyone, and inadvertantly sent messages that weren't there. It was not intended on either of our parts. |
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09/16/2002 06:46:18 PM · #41 |
Bamaster started on the right track when he said that if children are doing harmful things to themselves in order to strive for perfection, it is entirely the parents fault for not guiding them in the right direction.
How about the fact that 67% of American's are OVERWEIGHT? Striving for perfection is not a bad thing. It will help a child grow into a HEALTHY adult. The key is for the parents to teach that child how to achieve their own perfection, though a healthy diet and excersize. Don't blame the media for the downfalls of our society. Blame the people who can't find the time to properly educate their children.
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09/16/2002 07:02:02 PM · #42 |
Please, do not let them get to you. You need not apologize. This is a photo site, and photos like this are to be expected. There is one in every few challenges, if not every one (there is one more explicit this week). Don't let the negative, narrow-minded thinkers get to you. I like the way GeneralE put it, you do need to think about how your photo may be seen, but this is a great work of art and do not let anyone cause either of you shame or remorse for sharing it with us.
Originally posted by rumttugger:
First of all, I too would like to thank everyone for the votes and wonderful comments on John's photo this week. It means alot to both of us.
Secondly, let me say that this is MY body in this photo, and I will be the first to say that it was never intended to be a "look at me... don't you wish it was you photo". I don't starve myself to look like this, nor do I dwell on how my body looks. There is a tight crop on this photo. You certainly can't see all the flaws in this photo. There are multitudes of them.
I might add that if John had wanted it to be about nudity, there are other models he could use that would allow him to photograph them in their entirety. As MOST of you have seen, John doesn't go with the norm of photography, and he certainly is not into snapshots. Not that he doesn't score them highly, because he often does, but it isn't what he strives for. This photo was simply meant to be a creative perspective of a fruit shot. There was a better shot that we both liked, but the subject THE APPLE was not as prominent in that one.
I apologize if this offended anyone, and inadvertantly sent messages that weren't there. It was not intended on either of our parts.
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09/17/2002 08:03:22 AM · #43 |
It's a shame when people are more offended by a picture of a woman (who is tastefully covered up) than they are of violence in the media (like the simpsons for example). To me an image of a woman 20 lbs overweight in the same manner would be just as appealing.
I would hope that the image would have the same impact if the woman weren't quite so perfect.
Oh what I would have done to have lived in the old days... I have a Reubanesque figure.. I'd be a hottie hehe
Thank you Big Smiles for making my point for me. No the impact would not have been the same if the woman's body was not quite so perfect. Your last sentence reflects the thinking and the message that we are sending our young girls and boys constantly. It has the biggest impact on those who are approaching puberty and through out their teen age years.
Regarding parenting--there are no perfect children and their are no perfect parents. If you love your kids you strive to do the very best you can. In my opinion your parental guidance will have about a 33% influence on their lives with 1/3 coming from our educational system and the other 1/3 from outside influences which includes your extended family members, friends, news media and our society as a whole. You will fail time and time again but one day they stand as young men and young women and you see them as adults. I looked at my husband and said, "well I'll be damn, Dad, we did a pretty good job." Does that mean they have the same opinions as we do. No, but they do have the courage to stand up and speak out when they feel something is not right.
I know that the majority of people will not speak out because they are afraid of the condemnation they will receive. There have certainly been times when I did not and should have. I also know that most people don't like being told they have a responsibility when they don't want to accept it, including myself. The question is: are you honest enough to look at the issue and not cop out? I offer no apologies if I have offended anyone because if it is necessary to offend you to make you stop and think about how you are contributing then your being offended and my taking the flak is well worth it.
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09/17/2002 08:05:57 AM · #44 |
| PS: on the subject of sexuality and beauty--do you young guys on here realize that your grandparents still have sex. |
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09/17/2002 08:10:49 AM · #45 |
Ruth, dearie.....
The last comment in my post wasn't meant to be taken seriously. And secondly, my guess is you have some bitterness about the female figure and parenting issues. In absolutely no way was my comment to be interpreted into how much I love my kids (nonexistent as they are at the moment) or how good/bad of a parent i will be. It's not a statement about how i feel about my own body, or if I've been tricked by society into thinking 5'4 120 lbs is the ideal. You need to liven up and stop trying to change the world. Just because you think society is displaying a bad message about female issues doesn't mean you gotta get all vigilante on us and try to change things.
My question to you is... if society is really all that wrong....
have you ever worn makeup? a dress? put barrettes in your hair? shaved your legs? Dont condemn us for thinking a tastefully covered up image of a woman is sinful and we should be ashamed.... spare me. Please. |
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09/17/2002 08:13:00 AM · #46 |
| PS. My grandparents are people too they can have all the sex they want. I dotn understand why you think that we think sex is a dirty thing. It's really the only reason we exist. It's fun, it promotes good health and releases chemicals (the name escapes me) that make you happier all around. Sex is good. Very good. |
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09/17/2002 09:03:45 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
Oh what I would have done to have lived in the old days... I have a Reubanesque figure.. I'd be a hottie hehe
The old days are alive and well in the Society for Creative Anachronisms!!! All shapes welcome and appreciated :)
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09/17/2002 09:18:10 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
PS. My grandparents are people too they can have all the sex they want. I dotn understand why you think that we think sex is a dirty thing. It's really the only reason we exist. It's fun, it promotes good health and releases chemicals (the name escapes me) that make you happier all around. Sex is good. Very good.
Endorphines. These chemicals are also are released when eating chocolate. That's one reason so many of us crave chocolate. |
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09/17/2002 09:31:27 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by Ruth Skidmore:
PS: on the subject of sexuality and beauty--do you young guys on here realize that your grandparents still have sex.
If they do, then that is messed up, because 3 of the 4 are dead.
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09/17/2002 09:57:22 AM · #50 |
i see objectification in any naked female form, some are more tastefully done than others, but they're All covered under "art"
...even so, i'm tired of havin' ANY female form shoved in my face thru every form of media, but i'm also resigned to that which i can not change -- i much prefer looking at naked men than women, but alas, i really don't want to live life as a hermit...still waitin' for the day male bodies are objectified too....i'd love to be the one to do it but i don't have acess to models and even if i did i haven't the capability as a photographer (unlike john darnit!), in the meantime i'm not holding my breath for my preferred eye-candy to become popular...
btw, where my sister lives in pennsy, there's a book/magazine store where the issues of PlayGirl (naked men photos for women) aren't in the women's mag section like the men's mags of naked women are in the men's section...nope, to get a look at gorgeous male bodies in a magazine, we two women had to search and search and search that store until we found ourselves at the Gay men's magazine section and lo and behold! there was the stack of PlayGirl...
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