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02/24/2003 10:05:05 PM · #26 |
Who's trying to force it on anyone ? Its just a suggestion for those that perhaps haven't given it any thought before that maybe entering for the sake of it is actually hurting their photography, not improving it.
If you enter stuff that you don't think is any good (by your own standards ) what do you gain from it ? You know it isn't good, people waste their time telling you stuff you already know and nobody gains anything.
This is nothing to do with people being elitist, or being 'better' than anyone else - its just a suggestion that if you don't even like your picture or just did it at the last minute, do yourself a favour and don't inflict it on everyone else - it just wastes your own time and the people voting/ commenting.
There are some pictures I've entered in the past that have done really badly and I still really like them - I'm still glad I entered them. There are others I had doubts about and in hindsight, shouldn't have bothered entering. |
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02/24/2003 10:14:31 PM · #27 |
I completely agree Gordon. The last challenge I entered was yellow and was a shot I was really happy with but ended up being my 2nd to bottom score. I don't enter a lot of challenges because I'm not happy with the shot I took and I know whats wrong with them. I don't need people to tell me whats wrong with my shot when I already know what I did wrong.
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02/24/2003 10:15:33 PM · #28 |
| i just think people have different motivations and reasons for being on this site and those motivations and reasons should be respected |
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02/24/2003 10:38:15 PM · #29 |
I understand your point, but...
I work full time as a project manager in a high tech field, have a wife and three kids who need lots of time and attention, and we are active in hobbies, church, life, etc, etc. Often, I wind up working on a shot for the challenge at the last minute, sometimes barely getting it uploaded just before the deadline. My average score on my 'last minute' shots is 6.15. My average score on planned shots, where I developed an idea and went and got the shot during the week is lower. So... your theory doesn't work for me!!
All in all, I don't have a great deal of time to invest in getting my challenge shots. I do, however, always enjoy participating, voting, commenting, reading my comments, etc. I'm here for the fun of participating. If I get a great score, that's good. If I get a bad score, I still enjoy being here!
Thanks,
JD Anderson
Message edited by author 2003-02-24 22:38:28.
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02/24/2003 10:40:20 PM · #30 |
I found this website less than a month ago. I have judged two Challenges, but this was the first Challenge for which I submitted anything. I normally shoot only 2 subjects (and I'm told my photos on these subjects are of high quality), but I have always gotten panicky and completely dried up creatively when given specific themes to shoot.
I've been both extremely impressed and very intimidated by the quality of the work on this website. But I didn't want to just come to the website and judge others' great photos and never participate in a Challenge.
I could not think of a single thing that this applied to the "Despair" subject until Friday, and when I did, I tried to shoot what I saw as quickly as possible and submit it without judging myself or my photo -- for me this website offers a wonderful opportunity for developing a skill I don't possess at all, and it was IMPORTANT (and very difficult) for me just to submit SOMETHING.
Until now, I hadn't seen a lecturing, stinging, sarcastic or harsh remark in the forums and I felt that this website was a very safe place for me to really risk doing some things I've never been able to do before, and to learn from everyone else.
Frankly, having read Doc's stinging comment, I don't know how I feel about this website now. I know I certainly feel embarrassed about my effort.
Thanks a bunch, Doc. I hope there aren't too many others like you here.
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02/24/2003 10:42:21 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by achiral:
i just think people have different motivations and reasons for being on this site and those motivations and reasons should be respected |
"Respect" has become the number 1 politically correct reason to end a debate. It seems that, according to this notion of respect, everything is ok, and because of that we should just let it be.
Personally, I don't find it disrespectful to bring up the topic of auto critiscism before submitting a photo. I think it is part of photography. On the other hand, I beleive it is the action to submit a photo just for the sake of submitting without going through the important step of auto-critiscim that is disrespectful to other photographers.
DrJOnes666
DrJOnes666 |
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02/24/2003 10:45:50 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by ruthiek:
I found this website less than a month ago. I have judged two Challenges, but this was the first Challenge for which I submitted anything. I normally shoot only 2 subjects (and I'm told my photos on these subjects are of high quality), but I have always gotten panicky and completely dried up creatively when given specific themes to shoot.
I've been both extremely impressed and very intimidated by the quality of the work on this website. But I didn't want to just come to the website and judge others' great photos and never participate in a Challenge.
I could not think of a single thing that this applied to the "Despair" subject until Friday, and when I did, I tried to shoot what I saw as quickly as possible and submit it without judging myself or my photo -- for me this website offers a wonderful opportunity for developing a skill I don't possess at all, and it was IMPORTANT (and very difficult) for me just to submit SOMETHING.
Until now, I hadn't seen a lecturing, stinging, sarcastic or harsh remark in the forums and I felt that this website was a very safe place for me to really risk doing some things I've never been able to do before, and to learn from everyone else.
Frankly, having read Doc's stinging comment, I don't know how I feel about this website now. I know I certainly feel embarrassed about my effort.
Thanks a bunch, Doc. I hope there aren't too many others like you here. |
For every one person who is harsh, you will find many more to be encouraging. Welcome to the site and particpate at will! Have fun, learn, and smile alot! Take negative comments in stride and don't let them (or a low score) interfere with your efforts!
JD Anderson
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02/24/2003 10:49:35 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by ruthiek:
Until now, I hadn't seen a lecturing, stinging, sarcastic or harsh remark in the forums and I felt that this website was a very safe place for me to really risk doing some things I've never been able to do before, and to learn from everyone else.
Frankly, having read Doc's stinging comment, I don't know how I feel about this website now. I know I certainly feel embarrassed about my effort.
Thanks a bunch, Doc. I hope there aren't too many others like you here. |
Aww come on! Give me a break!
I was aware this topic would stir some discussion, but never did I think some would resolve to guilt trips.
Dear ruthiek, by submitting your photo in a public challenge in which people rate your image, you are exposing yourself to critiscism. It is part of the game.
That said, congratulation on overcoming your fear. It is a nice thing. (no irony).
DrJOnes666
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02/24/2003 10:49:56 PM · #34 |
[quote]"Respect" has become the number 1 politically correct reason to end a debate. It seems that, according to this notion of respect, everything is ok, and because of that we should just let it be.[/quote]
you can define respect any way you like but i believe you have no idea how individuals take photos on this site, and i believe you have no way of determining when they took it or how they took it.
[quote]On the other hand, I beleive it is the action to submit a photo just for the sake of submitting without going through the important step of auto-critiscim that is disrespectful to other photographers.
DrJOnes666
DrJOnes666[/quote]
how would you know that all these "bad" photos were submitted just for the sake of submitting photos? i'd like you to explain to us by giving examples we can't here. i think it's just rude to presuppose things about other people's work |
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02/24/2003 11:22:36 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
Aww come on! Give me a break!
I was aware this topic would stir some discussion, but never did I think some would resolve to guilt trips.
DrJOnes |
Funny, I thought the same about people resorting to guilt trips when I read :
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
By doing that, it's clugging the challenge with so much useless images, it makes the voting and commenting process a real pain. |
How are we to determine which of our images are "so much useless images" so we don't waste your time? I'm very curious...
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02/24/2003 11:27:57 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
Now seing the large amount of photos (202) and current content in the challenge, I can only remember so well why I didn't come back for so long.
I mean, come on! People, EDIT thyself!
Shouldn't it be the first thing a photographer learns?
Well I think it does matter. By doing that, it's clugging the challenge with so much useless images, it makes the voting and commenting process a real pain.
DrJOnes666 |
I always find it interesting when someone makes a very intentional statement and then after hearing the responses to it they change their tone and say they were simply making a harmless suggestion. If someone is going to tell everyone that there are so many useless images clugging the challenge than I would like to know which images are being talked about. I mean, most of us are here to learn so it only makes sense that we learn what are considered useless images so we can avoid clugging the challenges even more.
T
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02/24/2003 11:29:32 PM · #37 |
Hmm, I agree in principle, Dr. Jones, but not in practice, I admit sometimes. However, the last time I looked, there were over 6000 site users. Now, I'm not a mathematician, but it seems to me that there are about 5,700ish people self-editing. Some by not having a camera, some by not using it, some by not being active at this site. With that many users, 200-odd entries shouldn't be a surprise.
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02/24/2003 11:33:03 PM · #38 |
I will disagree -- the fundamental reason this site came to exist was to provide a forum and context for photographers to exchange photos, and give and receive criticism from each other about their efforts.
The "challenge" part of the name refers to having a specific topic and time frame, not to the competition for ribbons. We don't all have time, equipment, or perhaps inclination to get "better" as fast as YOU want, but that's no reason, to not submit. I believe I can learn from people's reaction to a "bad" photo as a good one. We only get to submit one or two a week. If we were in a class (or club?) we'd each be getting feedback on several photos/week. |
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02/25/2003 12:36:38 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Gren:
Starting to submitt to this site has increased my awareness of the importance of post processing. The first thing I submitted (for the yellow challenge) was something I had taken a while before, and was just like "Oh, that sort of fits". so I cropped, compressed and uploaded. And it did really, really bad. Since that I've been trying to become more professional about my submissions. |
Off topic...
Just checking you realise that photo's must be taken during the challenge week, given that you wrote "something I had taken a while before".
Back on topic...
I think we need to appreciate each person has a different reason for submitting to DPChallenge. Personally I think very carefully before submitting. My #1 criteria is "will this be an interesting photo, and hopefully different from most of the rest". If it isn't then I tend not to submit.
For other people though they might be seeking any feedback they can get. I made an effort to comment on the bottom 10 places of the Yellow challenge (as well as about 70 other images) purely because I figure those people can benefit the most. I like getting comments like "this is great", but I love comments like "your border is silly" or "the background is distracting".
I guess my point is that perhaps some people aren't really aware of why their photo is bad and are seeking advice. And I think that's fair enough... Let them submit, help them out and maybe down the track they will impress you with their skills. I think the "challenge" in DPChallenge is getting a good photo, not necessarily winning. |
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02/25/2003 01:11:09 AM · #40 |
Re-reading through some of the responses in the thread, I feel obliged to shed some light on a fact.
My point of this topic is not about the time it took to shoot a photo, or the actual time it was shot prior to its submission, but rather the time the person took to auto-avaluate his/her submission before actually submitting it - or not. I thought it was pretty clear in my demonstration. The time it took to shoot a picture is irrelevant to its final quality.
Now perhaps some think I was too harsh in my original message. But the fact remains: one of the most important thing a photographer needs to learn is to auto edit himself. That was and still is my message. And I still think many people who submit to the challenges either don't take the time to do that, or simply have absolutely no notion of this concept, in which case today is a nice day to start learning it.
I'm taking a break from this topic.
Thank you.
DrJOnes666
Message edited by author 2003-02-25 01:45:44. |
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02/25/2003 02:51:50 AM · #41 |
I know that the photos that i have been submitting have been getting better all the time,I think that just by trying to submitt to every challenge you are exercicing your creative juices. Although i am not yet a profhesional photografer i can now see the posobility of better and better shots on the way, DP cHALLENGE IS AN OUTLET TO TEST SOME OF THESE IMAGES, My best images were tken seperatly from dp challeng like when i couldnt find anything to match the challenge so i just look around and poof there coms somthing cool so i shoot itl
Mostly i think people shouldnot be discouraged into not-submiting bcause they think therescore should only be a 4 or 5long as it WAS the best and that wanted to compare or LEARN from the coments
that thell get { soon as people learn how to coment and what comenting is for}and them soack in that advice sort it out and do it agian, and again, and again!!!!!!
I just love photogrphy and i like to share my shots with others, I WANT TO SHAR AND GET CRITIQUED BY AND WITH DPQ---ERS, tHANKS Kevin
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02/25/2003 03:18:08 AM · #42 |
I think that maybe people are taking a little too much offense to the original post. If you actually put thought into your shot and are trying to improve then this doesn't even apply to you so don't get so defensive. The point, IMO, is that there are people who don't even try. Even if we were all professional photographers, someone's going to come in with the lowest score every time. Having a low score doesn't mean that you aren't trying. I just have trouble believing that some of these entries are serious efforts.
I sometimes enter shots that aren't my best effort. I don't always have time to reshoot or spend much time on a challenge shot, but I still want to participate. I don't think anyone is saying that your picture has to be GREAT just to enter. I have to agree, however, that there are always some entries that obviously don't have much thought or effort put into them, and I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people to look at their own work objectively. |
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02/25/2003 04:05:43 AM · #43 |
I don't take offense at all, but I do think it's wrong to expect that everyone who submits to challenges should aim to get into the top 3. Getting feedback is much, much more important to me than winning. I have submitted photos that I knew wouldn't rate highly, but I worked hard on them and I'm proud of them. My last submission, for the Rhythm challenge, is one of these.
Most of the photos that have scored highly (relatively) for me have been ones that I really don't like much at all. I took them knowing I was following all the "rules" that voters on DPC think "good photography" entails. My entry for the Perspective challenge was like this. I look at it, and I feel nothing, and it's only the 3rd photo I've taken that scored over 6.
So, Dr Jones, I hope you understand that editing yourself means different things to different people. If I took your advice, you probably wouldn't enjoy it. |
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