Square crop--pretty deflated over this one...

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/13/2006 10:04:29 AM · #1

First, this site has taught me an incedible amount about photography--I have learned far more than I will ever teach anyone else, and for that I am extremely grateful. Second, I'm not bothered by one of my challenge entries scoring low. Just like Thomas Edison, who failed over 1,000 times trying to invent the light bulb before he finally got it to work, I view every low score as a learning experience that will hopefully make my next entry that much better. Having said that, I was a bit surprised by my square crop entry. I didn't expect it to knock anyone's socks off, and I wasn't looking for a medal. However, I was hoping to score a lot better than it did. And while I'm on the subject of my score, I hope that any low scores I did get were because the voter didn't like the photograph, and not because they didn't like the subject. The only reason I mention this is because of a comment I got. This is not a cop out to a bad score, it is a genuine concern. I sincerely hope people here are intelligent enough to take a picture of an American flag for what it is, and not score low because they have a problem with the US. Again, I don't want to point fingers or make excuses.
So, in the spirit of learning how to take better pictures, please give me a little feedback on this shot. Help me make my next entry better! I appreciate your comments. Thanks in advance.

-Don

Neuferland

Google Pixel 2

03/13/2006 10:12:35 AM · #2

Hey!

The American Flag, sometimes a safe bet, other times a big no no. I used one for the very first time in the Fashion Challenge and also got a comment about it and honestly I didn't take offense at the comment, in fact I agreed with it.

I'm American and quite frankly got so sick of the flag after 9/11 that I refused to use it on my property at all for the past few years. The only reason we even had one around was my kids, they insist on it. So I'm sure you got some lower scores because of that sentiment.

Anyway as for the shot, here's my take on the technical side. It's not really that great a shot of the flag, it's nice, it sharp, but it's not unfolded all the way, you can barely see the stars and the shadows are a bit distracting on the flag itself. Maybe if you had come from the other side and was able to get more sun on it? The colors, while nice are not really popping out at me and saying, "Hey, LOOK AT ME!" much like my 3 year old son does. The composition is also a bit boring. Blue sky, a flag pole and a flag. Something everyone has seen a million times in everyday life. The problem with shooting a flag is trying to find new ways to make it interesting. Lighting, background, overall setting is what is going to make a flag shot interesting, not the flag itself.

Those are my opinions on the shot, again, nice, clear, sharp picture but that's about all I see.

Hope these comments help.

Deannda

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/13/2006 10:17:37 AM · #3

It's really crisp and really clean, but there's more to content than just people having a problem with a certain ideology.

People may simply be uninterested in it. If a picture fails to create an emotional impact, it is unlikely that it will score much over 5, even if it's technically immacculate.

It's pretty close to immacculate, but it would have been nicer subjet-wise if the flag itself were a bit more unfurled. Lost some impact there because the flag looks a bit limp.

As far as being an interesting subject though, it sort of fails because you would have to be a fan of America to care.

I'm not a fan or a foe of America, I just simply don't care. I've been there three times and it was just another place, much like every other place I've been to.

Maybe to some, the flag has some sort of special meaning or something, but to most, it's just a big multi-colored tablecloth. Yawn.

FWIW, I'd be the same about my own country's flag.

UNCLEBRO

Canon EOS-30D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/13/2006 10:20:18 AM · #4

I agree with Deannda about all the technical aspects of your shot.
It's simply not a very exciting picture.
And I'm sure you suffered from American "haters" just as others suffer from baby "haters" and animal "haters".
It's not fair, but it happens!

ElGordo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

03/13/2006 11:08:34 AM · #5

Your shot is technically ok but is such a commonplace subject that it does not excite interest. I would score this image a 5 simply because it is an uninteresting photo. Into that summary goes consideration for technical quality of the photo and more importantly, creativity. DPC voters tend to be forgiving of technical virtues if the subject is interesting and creatively portrayed. In general, the voters get it right, but do sometimes overlook a gem.

agenkin

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

Nikon MF Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 AIS

03/13/2006 03:28:08 PM · #6

I read the comment, and I don't think it's anti-american at all. I think that the commenter was correct at giving this a low mark, saying that perhaps Americans would find something in this picture just by virtue of it portraying their flag. What's there to like about this picture, other than its proper exposure and focus? I'm sorry to say this, but it's just not interesting in any way: no unusual perspective, no interesting composition, no particularly good colours/shapes/textures, no plot or story behind it.

I don't understand what moved you to send this in for a challenge.

03/13/2006 05:19:01 PM · #7

Thanks for the replies--good advice. What moved me to submit it was that I wanted to get in this challenge, and I didn't have any better ideas at the time. :o) It's all good. A technically decent picture of boring subject matter doesn't cut it. Fair enough. I can live with that.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

03/13/2006 05:39:57 PM · #8

Maybe I should chip in here as we're obviously taking about my comment.

I'm not anti-American or pro-American. Nationality of any kind has nothing to do with good photography. This is a photography challenge site and for me, the idea is to submit an interesting pic that fits within the bounds of the challenge description.

Now to me, your entry satisfied the challenge description but when I ask myself is it interesting to look at I have to say no.

It's a flag, (could've been any nations flag), on a blue background. Whats interesting or different about that ?. What skill was needed to take that pic? How does this entry set itself apart from the other 360 submissions? The answer to me was that the submitter tried to appeal to the pride of his countrymen to garner a good score. This doesn't work on a global scale and I pointed it out.

One more thing.
My lowest scoring submission is a macro shot of the bible. I submitted it for the challenge "obsolete" and got hammered. It was a great lesson in that I learnt that there's certain types of entries that just aren't gonna have global popularity. My "obsolete" was one of them and your "square crop" entry is another one.

If you sincerely started this post to improve your submissions then may I suggest you learn from this as I did from my poor choice of subject in "obsolete". I think it's fair to say I've improved mine a fair bit now lets see what you can do with yours.

cheers,
bazz.

Falc

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

03/13/2006 05:50:03 PM · #9

I think most of the problems with this shot have been pointed out, its simply not got any WOW. There is no real attempt to use the 'square' to compose an interesting image, just simply an ordinary image cropped to fit.

Look for ways to use the space and not simply record what you see.

I voted it a 4 if that helps any.

GuGi

Nikon D750

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/13/2006 05:58:58 PM · #10

good discussion, thanks all for many excellent points, many of them I agree with. A shot is a shot is a shot. If there is nothing in it that "speaks" to me, nothing extra there that moves me, even if the shot is good technically, I don't give hight marks. The 9Â´s and 10Â´s go really good shots that touch me and stay on the theme/challenge. I seldom go over 8 if the shot is way of the theme.
The shots I really have a difficulty with, those are the ones of almost naked females. I have seen very many of those here, but very few of these photographs have anything at all makes them worth looking at twice. And they are seldom close to the theme of the challenge.
Just my opinion and I know that many participants here disagree, the amounts of these pictures tell a story.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

03/13/2006 07:59:58 PM · #11

On a side note, the good news is (ironically enough) a non-square crop of this shot just got accepted into my istock portfolio. In fact, I came home and saw that 5 of my photos got accepted. I never get tired of seeing acceptance emails from istock! To be fair, I got 2 rejections in the past couple days, so all is not perfect. :o)

I wonder if it will sell. Boring photos (as you all correctly pointed out that this is) can certainly do well as stock, and considering I took this picture with stock in mind, it would be great if I get a few DLs on it. Cool!

rex

Canon PowerShot SD780

03/13/2006 08:23:10 PM · #12

Left you a comment on the photo.

I say the hell with all the American haters. If you hate it that much then stay the hell out!!!

woohoopepper

Nikon D70

03/13/2006 08:32:31 PM · #13

Your photo was just fine, and if flags in general weren't overdone, I wouldn't care what nationality it was. It was a good capture, just maybe one people don't find all that interesting. There are people on here that come up with the most amazing ideas, and as much as I try to think outside of the box, I don't think I'll ever equal many of them. There are some incredibly creative people on DPC. As you say, it is a learning experience.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/13/2006 08:40:47 PM · #14

I gave it a 5. Technically it was a good shot, imho its not the fact that its the American flag (and haters of it)it just doesnt do anything for me aesthetically, much as a plain shot of an egg would not.

03/13/2006 09:26:55 PM · #15

Originally posted by rex:

Left you a comment on the photo.

I say the hell with all the American haters. If you hate it that much then stay the hell out!!!

Talkin about being off topic :(

I personally haven't seen any evidence of what you call American haters at this site and I'm sure it wouldn't be very well accepted here if it was.

This affair should serve as a lesson to all as to what makes a high rating photo and conversely, what doesn't.

cheers,
bazz.

rex

Canon PowerShot SD780

03/13/2006 09:28:25 PM · #16

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

Originally posted by rex:
Left you a comment on the photo.

I say the hell with all the American haters. If you hate it that much then stay the hell out!!!

Talkin about being off topic :(

I personally haven't seen any evidence of what you call American haters at this site and I'm sure it wouldn't be very well accepted here if it was.

This affair should serve as a lesson to all as to what makes a high rating photo and conversely, what doesn't.

cheers,
bazz.

Then you must not have read the comments on the photo or you are not here a lot. Either way where the hell do you get off topic?

03/13/2006 09:33:59 PM · #17

Originally posted by rex:

Then you must not have read the comments on the photo or you are not here a lot. Either way where the hell do you get off topic?

It was my friggin comment on the submission.

I think that makes opinion on-topic.

bazz.

rex

Canon PowerShot SD780

03/13/2006 09:37:56 PM · #18

Originally posted by sir_bazz:

Originally posted by rex:

Then you must not have read the comments on the photo or you are not here a lot. Either way where the hell do you get off topic?

It was my friggin comment on the submission.

I think that makes opinion on-topic.

bazz.

I know it is your comment I have read it four times now. I see nothing technically wrong with the shot. Maybe a little boring but if it were not the AMERICAN FLAG you would not have given it such a low score. I can pretty much guarantee that. I was also refering to Neuferlands post about her Fashion entry. Maybe my fault I guess I should have quoted her so people didn't have to read the whole thread.

03/13/2006 09:51:06 PM · #19

Originally posted by rex:

Thanks for the reply.

I'll gaurantee you that no matter which flag it was(, yes even my own country's flag), I would've voted it the way I did.

Any friggin photo of a flag on a pole has only one hope of getting a decent vote and that is appealing to the patriotic vote. I think I've done well enough at this site to say thats not how you get a highly rated submission. Had I not commented on the submission in the first place the OP would not know why his entry didn't work. At least I had the honesty, (although the language used may not have been tactful), to tell him where he went wrong.

On a side note, I have had jmsetzler's US flag shot in my favs for quite a long time as it's one of the few flag shots that have been presented in a new and unusual way.

cheers,
bazz.