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08/21/2002 01:50:27 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have received several complaints in the past about posting my challenge photos elsewhere before or during the challenge. In some people's mind, that is reason to give me a low score.
Anyone you might sway to the positive would likely be offset by folks swayed to the negative, so I see this as a wash...
I am, however, confused as to why someone would be swayed either way by knowing who took a particular shot... I guess I might hold some folks to a higher standard, but I'd certainly make an effort not to let it affect my vote...
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08/21/2002 01:54:11 PM · #27 |
It's all a wash i figure... There are so many votes that come in here every week that I don't believe it's possible to sway a photo far enough in one direction to change the outcome of the challenge anyway.
I would like to think that the photographs do not need help to succeed here. If a photo is good enough, it will do well on its own :)
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08/21/2002 02:04:50 PM · #28 |
I rate on the full 1 - 10 scale and my results look pretty much like a bell curve. This week, for example, I have:
10s - 1
9s - 7
8s - 9
7s - 31
6s - 54
5s - 41
4s - 27
3s - 8
2s - 4
1s - 2
My average vote over 2469 votes is 5.3, so I probably usually give a few more 5s than 6s. I thought there were a lot of great photos this week, so the results are maybe skewed a bit higher than normal. Unless there is an obvious clue in the photo, I don't know who anyone's shot is but mine, since I don't frequent other photo sites. I'm not sure what I would do if I did, but I caught on to Arnit's retake of an earlier photo for "Something Old" and I don't think it changed the score I gave it.
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08/21/2002 02:21:42 PM · #29 |
Here's my curve for this week: X = approximately 2 votes... I didn't give any ones or twos this week...
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08/21/2002 02:47:03 PM · #30 |
the big issue is on what scale you use.
the voting hints are 1 very bad and 10 very good
But does that mean for here ?
Compared to how you do ?
Compared to the best you've seen in a gallery ?
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08/21/2002 02:57:26 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
the big issue is on what scale you use.
the voting hints are 1 very bad and 10 very good
But does that mean for here ?
Compared to how you do ?
Compared to the best you've seen in a gallery ?
I for one rate from 1-9 based on the photos submitted here, and give 10s for those that have that something special that makes me want to enlarge it, frame it, and hang it in my office or home. What's nice about this site is that I generally find a few 10s every week.
Jim
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08/21/2002 03:01:58 PM · #32 |
KDJohnson, David Ey, et al -
I'm pretty positive you've all been misreading rapsii3's original post. I pretty sure what he meant was that any photo he would consider giving a 10 to was probably sold as art rather than posted to dpchallenge. At the same token, he's saying that any photo he would consider giving a 1 to was probably disqualified by monday morning (being lewd or against the rules, etc.).
I don't think he was commenting on this site being rigged or anything like that. He's just trying to understand everyone elses scale for voting, as his is primarily 2-9.
By the way, mine is primarily 2-9 too, although I'm a real hardass. I give a lot of 3s, 4s, and 5s. To get above a 5 is to have something special, to me.
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08/21/2002 03:50:55 PM · #33 |
| Thank you Mike for explaining my meaning. You got it exactly right. |
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08/21/2002 06:41:41 PM · #34 |
| The amount of brain power people put into this topic always confuses me...lol. Like John said, 1 = Very bad and 10 = Very good. 5 would be average. The subjective part comes in on those few numbers above and below 5...to what degree is it above or below average? |
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08/21/2002 07:10:21 PM · #35 |
| Point taken..thanks mci. Sorry for being pissed off about that one. Just took it the wrong way I guess. |
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08/21/2002 08:16:53 PM · #36 |
This has been a pretty long thread and I guess it is about time to stop it, so I am going to jump in.
When I first joined up I would vote on each picture with a gut feeling vote, like has been described several times here. I would give it a 1 if it was real bad and a 10 if it was real good. I also left comments on as many pictures as I had time to do, even though I consider myself a novice. I hope that some of my comments helped someone with less knowledge than I have, and I hope the semi-pros just ignore them. I look forward to the comments that were left for my pictures also, and I still do, even though in the last few challenges the comments were not very helpful as far as learning, but at the same time they have been great for a moral boost.
Most of you are familiar with my way of voting by entering an average vote based on four unique fields that I feel are important to getting a good photograph. I have experimented with the fields and still am not happy with the topics that I cover. In time I hope to achieve a group that will do every one justice. This week I included a field for "Does it meet the challenge". When I added this one to my list I did not know the challenge was going to be so cut and dried so it will not be very effective, but I decided to leave it in. If your picture has a pencil in it, it is a 10 and if there ain't one it rates a 0 in that category. Oh well.
I guess what I am trying to say is that with my method, a picture could have some real strong qualities in one area and be real weak in another, and I have found this to be the case most of the time. Very few pictures rate high in each category and very few rate low in all categories. I feel that I am arriving at an average that expresses what I see in pictures, based on the four categories. My overall averages seem to be much higher than when I used the "Pig in a Poke" method.
In the several weeks that I have used this system I have had only a handful of photographers write and ask me to explain why I voted as I did. On the other hand I have also had several photographers comment on how they really liked what I was doing. No one said they did not like the system. This tells me that most are satisfied with my method or they simply don't care that much about comments.
Autool
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08/21/2002 09:05:16 PM · #37 |
Last challenge I tried a new rating technique (before I merely scored the photos by comparing each other). It's the following:
I start at 2. I vote half for technical merits, half for artistical.
Tech:
+1 for good composition. Simplicity, rule of thirds, lines, balance, etc. I don't say it must use all these, but when then it should fit and make the photo better or the point better understood. E.g. I won't give this point when somebody used the ROT but it made the photo worse in my opinion. Btw: I find it interesting that people rate the ROT seperate from composition. To me the ROT is part of the composition, isn't it?
+1 for good lighting. Was lighting actually _used_? E.g. were shadows used to symbolize depth? Does the light transport the mood of a scene (warm/cold)?
+1 for good focus. Was the focus used to emphasise the subject? Eg. by changing the DOF? A photo can be all fuzzy and still get this point.
+1 extra point when there is something else technically what I think deserves this. E.g. a neat effect done in postprocessing (but only if it enhances the photo, not just for it's sole purpose). I also give this point when I don't see something I would have done better.
Art:
+1 if it relates to the challenge, i.e. was the challege topic transphormed into a photo. When I don't get a photo it won't get this point.
+1 if it's creative. Does it show something original or some out of the box thinking? E.g. when somebody used an interesting or unusual angle or a neat effect (non-postprocessed, e.g. mirrors fall into this category).
+1 if I like it. Based on my first gut feeling. Would I print it? Do I dig the "style"?
+1 extra point when I really love it :-) I usually give this point when I return to a photo just to have one more look at it.
So you see there is room for my subjective feelings but it also forces me to score objectively. It's certainly not perfect. E.g. I find it sometimes difficult to have only 1 point for such a complex thing like composition, but that's also what's the extra point for. I think it's not too bad. I just wanted to post it here as a suggestion.
It took a lot of time to check all these things on each photo last challenge. But I think it paid off, because I saw things which I probably missed when just looking at it without a "plan". Actually I have a note with these points and I check them for each photo. I'll use this system this week again.
Btw: 5 is not the average of 1-10... it's 5.5.
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08/21/2002 09:28:45 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have received several complaints in the past about posting my challenge photos elsewhere before or during the challenge. In some people's mind, that is reason to give me a low score. Since the rules of this site do not state that the photo I choose to submit must not be posted anywhere else on the internet before or during the challenge, I will continue to post as is suites me.
I don't take photos for the sole purpose of participating on DPC. I like getting feedback on some of the photos that i do, so I post them to places where I can get feedback.
Some people are under the impression that this may be for the purpose of soliciting higher votes on my photo.
Take this into consideration if you believe this to be true:
1 challenge photo
252 votes on that photo
Average score (something new photo) = 5.357
Total vote points: 1350
(This photo received 2 votes of 10, btw)
Let's say that I swayed 20 people to give me votes of 10 instead of whatever they would have given me. This would have changed my average score to:
1350 - 106 = 1244
1244 + 200 = 1444
1444 / 252 = 5.73 average instead of 5.35
= .38 difference in score if i had swayed 20 people :)
As you can see, i only received two 10 votes on that photo. So, it should be fairly obvious that i'm not out there begging for votes :)
jmsetzler, I am not accusing you of trying to sway votes and I do understand the math. However, if you look at the difference in the scores of the top ten or so photos each week you will see the significance of a .38 difference.
The owners of this site have requested and it has been discussed many times in the forums that we should not disclose the name of the photographer before the contest is over. You would think Mr.Setzler, you being a Moderator, you would refrain from posting your entry or an outtake elsewhere. It would only be for one week you know.
kdJ------bingo------you are correct,your name wasn't included but there was no question whether or not you knew who's photo it was when you voted. I would never have mentioned it had you not said you had no idea what the other post meant. Maybe you can be more discrete.
btw my statistically favorites--jms,7.706,17-----kdj,7.692,13---ya see,
I like yall's stuff. Lets lighten up, OK?
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/21/2002 9:43:13 PM. |
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08/21/2002 09:39:02 PM · #39 |
I'm thinking my discretion is neither up to you...nor any of your business. How I vote and what I know and don't know and what I base it on...is my own style. If you have a problem with that...I suggest you not read my comments anymore. Thank you in advance and have a nice day :)
If I was not light....I would have said..have a lousy day :(
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/21/2002 9:46:13 PM. |
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08/21/2002 09:45:46 PM · #40 |
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08/21/2002 11:18:39 PM · #41 |
| I am going to print all this out and read it tomorrow... |
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08/22/2002 12:03:10 AM · #42 |
Btw: 5 is not the average of 1-10... it's 5.5text
I don't see a radio button for 5.5. :-P lol |
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08/22/2002 10:32:18 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by jimmsp:
I for one rate from 1-9 based on the photos submitted here, and give 10s for those that have that something special that makes me want to enlarge it, frame it, and hang it in my office or home. What's nice about this site is that I generally find a few 10s every week.
Jim, this comment seems overlooked amongst the bickering. I just wanted to point out that it is an incredibly nice compliment to the users of dpchallenge over all. :-)
Dawn
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08/22/2002 10:39:41 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by jimmsp:
I for one rate from 1-9 based on the photos submitted here, and give 10s for those that have that something special that makes me want to enlarge it, frame it, and hang it in my office or home. What's nice about this site is that I generally find a few 10s every week.
Jim
I do the same. I use the whole range 1 to 10 because it allows me to better rank the photographs. Therefore, as I have said before, in a challenge where the standard is pretty high, even a 5 from me means I think the photo is good and attracts me to some extent.
This week I have 3 9s and I think two may be bumped to 10s. I am thinking on it.
:)
Kavey |
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08/22/2002 10:48:42 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by jimmsp:
I for one rate from 1-9 based on the photos submitted here, and give 10s for those that have that something special that makes me want to enlarge it, frame it, and hang it in my office or home. What's nice about this site is that I generally find a few 10s every week.
Jim
(I'm bored. The homepage is going to have nothing but forum posts from Muckpond on it.)
I agree with Jim 100%. 10s are special and something that I would keep for myself. I use 1-9 for most photos but almost ALWAYS have a few in each challenge that I say "dang....I wish I could do that." I have lots of 9s this week...but not a lot of 10s. Other weeks have been different.
Frankly, for me, challenge topic is the first thing that I look for (and I _do_ look closely -- titles included!). If it doesn't hit the challenge, it goes straight to the bottom of the list. If it's a technically perfect photo, I will mention that in the comment but its score is definitely deflated.
I know a lot of people would say this is unfair and it probably is. But we're not submitting to any old photo of the week contest. They are THEMED challenges, and I've spent just about every weekday during the last month and a half trying to rack my brain about what to shoot for the challenge. If I see someone didn't put that much thought into their shot -- just went for a good/great photo -- it gets dinged somewhat.
The good news is that I rarely have votes from 3-5. If you've got the guts to submit SOMETHING and it's looks like you've really tried, that says a lot to me. It's hard to let a world of strangers critique your stuff.
Rob
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08/22/2002 11:10:35 AM · #46 |
Frankly, for me, challenge topic is the first thing that I look for (and I _do_ look closely -- titles included!). If it doesn't hit the challenge, it goes straight to the bottom of the list.
Bingo! I couldn't agree more with that assessment. Too often I see a good shot that just doesn't have anything to do with the challenge, and I will definitely dock it for that. Whether it shows or not, I find myself thinking very hard about how to take a new shot that fits the challenge... not the other way around (taking a shot, and figuring out how it might in some way meet the challenge, with a clever title or something).
At the same time, I do make every effort to "get" the intention of the shot before I strike it down. Sometimes the thinking was a little deeper than my shallow little mind, and I have to ponder it a bit. I think everyone should take a little extra time to digest titles before dismissing a shot as being off subject. My photo this week, for example, has been getting several comments from people who "don't get it," although it clearly meets the challenge. I am sure that some number of people are not even glancing at the title before dismissing it as being a little odd, or saying they don't get it...
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