| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/12/2002 09:38:40 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by JamieWillmott:
Surely borders were allowed to help people who made a mistake cropping and not for them to be used as an addition to the image? |
This is what I understood too.
Allowing more than the simplest of borders is giving an advantage to post-processing skills rather than emphasising what comes out of the camera.
Since images to tend to look far more professional when presented with a well matched two-colour border, it is likely that votes will be swayed, unconsciously or not, to mark more highly for entries which have been nicely "mounted" than those left "au naturel".
Just my tuppence...
Kavey
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 09:40:14 AM · #27 |
I think your photo should stand on its own. If you're going to try and put some fancy-pants border around it to "save" it, you've got bigger problems than what border colors to choose.
One solid color is fine. The point of this site is to see different people's photographic takes on the same subject. This is NOT pBase or photosig. The main purpose here is not to "display" your photos -- it's to enter and compete in challenges. If everyone has wacky borders running around, that hurts the purpose here.
A solid color for framing, or no borders at all. Those would be my choices.
Rob
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 09:41:56 AM · #28 |
And I'm confused by this whole "made a mistake cropping" issue. We can have odd-sized images now so I don't see how slapping a border on would save anything.
Plus...doesn't most software have an "undo"? It's not like we're taking scissors to the Mona Lisa here or anything...
Rob
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 09:49:00 AM · #29 |
| The rules are the rules and we need to follow them. If they were to be changed (again),I would say that borders should be limited to only black or white and only one of those colors, and be a predermined width. That way there would be uniformity in the challenges and we wouldn't be getting a shock treatment every time we opened a new picture to vote/comment on it. |
|
|
|
12/12/2002 10:15:00 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
And I'm confused by this whole "made a mistake cropping" issue. We can have odd-sized images now so I don't see how slapping a border on would save anything.
Plus...doesn't most software have an "undo"? It's not like we're taking scissors to the Mona Lisa here or anything...
Rob |
When cropping in Photoshop, it is possible to drag the crop marquee outside of the original image, which will then add to the canvas on that side using the background color. "Undo" doesn't work if you don't notice and have already submitted, as I did with this entry back in May, which was DQ'd from the Games challenge.
PART of this decision was to eliminate DQ's for things like this, but given the decision to allow borders, I think we should allow the artist as much freedom as possible. I don't care that much if it's one or two colors, but think people's objections to any particular use of borders should be expressed as LOW VOTES, not DQ requests. Stop quibbling over whether something should be ALLOWED, and start focusing on whether it's any GOOD.
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:03:05 AM · #31 |
| I´m a big fan of borders. And I´m not afraid of letting them free. And I don´t think we than will have a lot of odd borders, because people will vote them down. So a border or two will absolutely touch up the photo. |
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:29:01 AM · #32 |
Black and white arent colours :P
heheh
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:33:18 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Konador:
Black and white arent colours :P
heheh |
white is color..
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:58:04 AM · #34 |
What about taking a poll about this and let it be settled? Are we ever going to stop trying to drive Drew insane? :-) The amazing thing is his obvious professionalism and patience, because I've only seen him get mad once!
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 12:07:01 PM · #35 |
To really allow for level playing fields, either no border, or...
When submitting a photo a selection that asks for 1st border color (rgb values or pre-selected colors in a list) and the pixel width up to x amount of pixels, then a selection box for a second border color and width. These would be table background colors around the photo. This would ensure no gradients or fancy shadows, just standard solid color borders, up to two, that are uniform in appearance. You then re-write the rules to say that no post processing borders can be added and that if you would like borders, choose the colors when you submit your photo to the contest. For those people who mis-crop their shots and have a stray pixel border, ... sorry, but DQ is the only answer. If you spend the time and attention to taking the shot, you should also be triple-checking your work after you're done post processing.
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 01:43:46 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by crabappl3:
To really allow for level playing fields, either no border, or...
When submitting a photo a selection that asks for 1st border color (rgb values or pre-selected colors in a list) and the pixel width up to x amount of pixels, then a selection box for a second border color and width. These would be table background colors around the photo. This would ensure no gradients or fancy shadows, just standard solid color borders, up to two, that are uniform in appearance. You then re-write the rules to say that no post processing borders can be added and that if you would like borders, choose the colors when you submit your photo to the contest. For those people who mis-crop their shots and have a stray pixel border, ... sorry, but DQ is the only answer. If you spend the time and attention to taking the shot, you should also be triple-checking your work after you're done post processing. |
I abso-positvi-lutely agree with everything here. Coding a border selection tool would not be that difficult and it would give an option to those who desire it.
And I also agree about the post-processing. Triple-checking the results is imperative.
Good job, Crabappl3.
Rob
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 02:09:08 PM · #37 |
I am new here. Just entered into the challenge for the first time (motion) and decided to become a member while I was at it.
I think borders are as important to the shot as frames are to printed images. They are there to help seperate the image from the surroundings and to help draw the eye into the shot not out of it. dpchallenge has a gray background which will severely inhibit the viewing of B+W images unless a seperator is involved. Most BW images will look gray if viewed here. Optimally there should be a black frame with a white matte to help seperate the image.
I say let in what ever the artist wants. A bad image is a bad image no matter what frame is used and a good image can be absolutely ruined by the wrong frame. I say let them in and see what happens.
Just my 2 cents. Don't flame the new guy... ;-)
Dave |
|
|
|
12/12/2002 03:46:03 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
I am new here. Just entered into the challenge for the first time (motion) and decided to become a member while I was at it.
|
First off, welcome.... 8)
Originally posted by Davenit:
I think borders are as important to the shot as frames are to printed images. They are there to help seperate the image from the surroundings and to help draw the eye into the shot not out of it. dpchallenge has a gray background which will severely inhibit the viewing of B+W images unless a seperator is involved. Most BW images will look gray if viewed here. Optimally there should be a black frame with a white matte to help seperate the image.
|
Secondly, and no flaming intended, I would like to reiterate what I said before. This is not an art gallery. This is a challenge. The challenge is to see 200+ different PHOTOGRAPHIC takes on the same topic. Opening up the rules to allow whatever borders we want moves us much closer to being a digital art forum, and not a photography forum.
There's a reason that you send in slides and plain 8x10s to film photo challenges -- they don't want to be distracted by the frame. It's not part of the composition. It may be lovely for display, but the primary purpose here is to compete with others and hear their feedback on your PHOTOGRAPHY skills, not your whiz-bang Photoshop techniques.
Besides, if it was a Photoshop challenge, Gordon would cream us all. LOL...
Rob
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 04:08:19 PM · #39 |
I think that Davenit's point is being missed. Having a border on certain shots (B&W as he points out) is a requirement for the image to be seen properly. It has nothing whatsoveer to do with this being a challenge not a gallery.
For months people have been complaining that users' monitors are not calibrated properly. Why do they complain? Because they want their shot to look the way it should. No different with borders, imo.
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 05:24:38 PM · #40 |
Right, and a single border (as is allowed now) accomplishes that offset from the background of the site just fine.
My issue is with borders that are more than two colors. I don't think they're necessary for this site.
Rob
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 05:29:22 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Right, and a single border (as is allowed now) accomplishes that offset from the background of the site just fine. |
Yes, but sometimes you need something to offset the border from the picture ;)
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 05:54:34 PM · #42 |
Hey Rob, thanks for the welcome and I understand what you are saying. The real difference (as jak eluded to) between what we are doing here and what a "film or slide" entry has is control over the environment under which it is seen. Images are not being seen in a viewing booth or held up against a white background. They are being previews using a 50% grey background which will tend to turn certain images dark and others bright. It is about the best you can do to keep it even but can severely hinder cetain images with certain tonal ranges.
I say bring it on. I personally don't care what frames people use. Let them use 10 colors for all I care. All I know is this. If I take a good image with no frame and someone takes a mediocre image with a 5 color frame, mine will still win.
This may be a challenge but it is still art. If a person envisions his/her image in the middle of a bunch of border colors, so be it. I don't see why it is an issue. Let them frame. If you don't want to you don't have to. If you don't like it vote the image lower. It is all part of the image in DP. Vote accordingly...
Good post Rob. Thanks for sharing and making it flameless.... LOL!!!
Dave
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 06:25:54 PM · #43 |
I think a no holds barred challenge is a great idea with the emphasis on a realistic and natural looking photo. When can we start? I have Photoshopped warmed up and ready.
T
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 08:20:15 PM · #44 |
Well, who's to say what is natural looking in photography?
As long as the actual images/subjects are not drawn in photoshop, eliminating the photography, I don't have any problems with various digital darkroom techniques being used as part of the process. Folks need to learn these techniques somewhere..why not here? When you take film photography you learn all kinds of darkroom technique.
I guess I am figuring that we have a regular open challenge for those folks limited in camera gear, skill or time, why not a more advanced level of challenge. |
|
|
|
12/12/2002 09:42:38 PM · #45 |
Here's my favorite "illegal" border:
Cloudy Isaac & Winter Tree #20  |
|
|
|
12/12/2002 09:45:26 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Well, who's to say what is natural looking in photography?
|
The people who are voting ?
The point being if you aim for a 'natural' photograph, you tend to stay away from the 'digital art' end of the spectrum, with marching feet, emulating pink floyd's 'the wall' video in a collage or something....
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 10:32:27 PM · #47 |
Well, I say let people have up to 20 pixels around the edge of their image to do whatever they like with :). I've never used borders that much, and I'm looking forward to learning what works and what doesn't, and some interesting techniques.
It's another facet of photography that applies to both the digital and non-digital worlds, and something that amateurs should learn about. I agree with those who say the voters will decide when a photographer has gone over the top. For those who lose out because their photoshop skills aren't up to much... they're already losing out now if they can't do things like adjust levels or sharpen their photos properly. Adding a border isn't a difficult skill, and they can learn it over time. People don't (I hope) come to this site at a low skill level and STAY there.
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:31:22 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
The people who are voting ?
The point being if you aim for a 'natural' photograph, you tend to stay away from the 'digital art' end of the spectrum, with marching feet, emulating pink floyd's 'the wall' video in a collage or something.... |
I hope we can allow folks to continue to submit as wide a range of shots as possible.
It's one thing to say "The voters will decide with their vote" but another if we decide with an unwritten but generally understood attitude among the photographers in general that only "photography 101" shots are accepted.
I'm just ranting against status quo again....move along..nothing to see :-D
|
|
|
|
12/12/2002 11:58:33 PM · #49 |
I'm not sure I'd really want to do this, but here's a two-toned border made legally by current rules (other than the one-color limitation).
Professor Airhead (striped border)  |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/26/2025 12:07:33 PM EDT.
