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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Time to take a break
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12/09/2003 07:34:34 AM · #1
sorry


Message edited by author 2003-12-09 22:05:47.
12/09/2003 07:45:23 AM · #2
Don't give up on account of a few bad apples.

There's a lot to learn, but, like always, the learning has to be done actively, taken from the site, not passively just hoping something magical will happen with your photographs.

Being here will help your work tremendously. You do, however, need a slightly thicker skin.

Best wishes,
Jim
12/09/2003 07:52:02 AM · #3
That's the kind of comment where you make a mental note of the author and discard any futuer posts or comments with that name attached to it. I'll bet if you go check out this person's portfolio, you won't see much impressive work.
12/09/2003 07:55:22 AM · #4
Originally posted by TerryGee:

These last few challenges have really upset me.
Here I thought I was improving, and I had a couple of good scores going.


If you feel like you are improving and are happy with your photos, don't worry about what the dorks out there are saying. If that is the only constructive comment the person is able to give, then it should be obvious that they didn't take the time to really critque your entry and their comment should be ignored.

The one thing I've been learning myself as a new member here is make sure "I'm" happy with my submissions. That is what is important.

Keep at it.
12/09/2003 07:56:10 AM · #5
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

That's the kind of comment where you make a mental note of the author and discard any futuer posts or comments with that name attached to it. I'll bet if you go check out this person's portfolio, you won't see much impressive work.


If it was just that one John, I'd be fine....but lately it seems to be the attitute around here by many.
Just not worth trying anymore at this point.
12/09/2003 08:09:06 AM · #6
I hate to hear that Terry but I understand your feelings. The attitude, and comments can get you down. I think John is right you have to consider the source.
Take a mental health holiday but hurry back. Your beautiful work and valuable input will be missed.
Happy Holidays.
12/09/2003 08:26:15 AM · #7
Just for the record, Terry. I loved your soft-focus shot and gave it a 10. I didn't think it was "cliche" in the least.
12/09/2003 09:22:59 AM · #8
TerryGee,

Have just perused your portfolio. There is some stunning work there. From the creativity of "uncanny" to the sensuous "scents" entry. When you choose to apply a border, they work very well with the picture. You seem to have a comfortable relationship with flowers and birds, so would encourage a specialized pursuit of those....in the form of a book or collectable. You handle the F717 very capably, as is evidenced by the breadth of your portfolio.

A member here known as "Ronners" has stated on several occassions that many photographers could benefit from concentrating on their specialties rather than entering all the different challenges with the ever expanding new/different techniques to master. The belief that once you find what really works for you, then become it's master and be the best at that style. In reading a recently acquired book on the techniques used by National Geographic Photographers, several state that at NG, there are many masters, each with their own specialties.

DPC for me, has done several things. 1). It has shown me the work and creativity of people just like myself. 2). It is a resource for opinions and information. 3). Sometimes, it is just plain humorous to read the wit and banter on the different threads. And 4). It is a motivator to drive me to create, when my passion batteries are not fully charged.

No one can decide what is right for you and your photography. But, based on your portfolio, you have the skills, equipment, and photographers "eye" for beautiful photographs.
12/09/2003 09:32:37 AM · #9
Originally posted by TerryGee:

see much impressive work.


If it was just that one John, I'd be fine....but lately it seems to be the attitute around here by many.
Just not worth trying anymore at this point.[/quote]

Don't let DPC get you down.
12/09/2003 09:54:26 AM · #10
Don't let a silly comment like that annoy you - not to the extreame of leaving somewhere where you have some great respect and probably enjoy very much.

The comment, whilst borderline rude, is what art is all about - you provoked an emotion and that person had a right to say what he/she likes or dislikes about it.

There are a lot of cliches on this site - and sometimes they too piss me off, 100 american flags, 100 eggs, 100 bugs. But that is part of learning. I didn't know that these were so popular until DPC and understand what is unique and what is common/cliche is a positive thing.

Ps: your a great nature photographer ;)

12/09/2003 10:02:59 AM · #11
I can understand wanting to take a break from the challenges. If you do decide to go on hiatus from dpc, PLEASE, don't put down your camera. Make photos that YOU want to make, then, when you feel ready, come back and share.

FWIW, your soft focus entry was one of two 9's for me. I was quite disappointed that it did not do much better.
12/09/2003 02:41:08 PM · #12
thanks for the kind comments...

I must say that i have been at quite a few photo sites, for some time now, and this continues to be the only one with nasty negative comments.
Why, I ask myself. What brings out the worst in people here. Is it just because on this site we vote against each other?
I submit, and win on various other sites where the judging is done by the site. You get some nice comments and congratulations.
Don't get me wrong, that's not enough either. If there are improvements to be made, I for one believe in letting the photographer know it.
Anyone who wants the honest truth about a photo knows I will give it.
But opinions are different. I think they are best to keep to yourself.
They vary so much from person to person, why would you want to influence others that way.
I read the recent thread about water drops, so some people hate them and some love them.
Well what does that have to do with anything. Vote as you will, who cares?
But, comment according to proper ediquete. Leave out the unnecessary remarks.

I think every photo is unique. Whether its an old technique or a new one. Does the photo stand on it's own? Did the photographer use good techniques? Did he pay attention to details? Is it interesting?
Many things go into a photo. I personally put myself into each and every one.

So yeah, I need thicker skin....

Message edited by author 2003-12-09 19:51:39.
12/09/2003 02:48:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by TerryGee:


But opinions are different. I think they are best to keep to yourself.


Interesting concept.
12/09/2003 03:39:49 PM · #14
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by TerryGee:


But opinions are different. I think they are best to keep to yourself.


Interesting concept.


I agree to both parts of this...keeping opinions to yourself & the fact that it is an interesting concept.

When you submit a photo to a contest such as what we have here, you hope to be judged on the photo itself...whether it meets the challenge, technical aspects of the photo, etc...you are hoping to get a true critique of your work so that you can learn, make changes and hopefully become a better photographer.

However when comments such as "this is the 10th rose i've seen", "this is a good shot but it's cliche", "meets challenge well, but why pick on xxx religion, you get a 1"...these are not critiques, these are the opinions of a few individuals (growing more by the week it seems)who are not giving a fair vote to some quality photographs.
12/09/2003 03:53:27 PM · #15
A critique is nothing more than an opinion in most cases.
12/09/2003 03:54:32 PM · #16
I just calculated how much I spend this year on my photo hobby!
950$ for new PC and monitor
1300 $ on cameras and accessories
1200 $ printing cost ( DPCPrints,home printer,paper,ink)
600$ high speed internet
many $$$$ on driving (gas,hotels) around USA to take photos

So conclusion is,most of the people here are not photographers,just folks ho have lot of money to spend on photo fun!
And the comments you are getting are not surprising me !

Message edited by author 2003-12-09 15:55:27.
12/09/2003 04:11:06 PM · #17
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

A critique is nothing more than an opinion in most cases.


And this is one of the drawbacks to a site such as this. When you submit your photo to be voted on, you really do expect an unbiased review and vote on each individual photo. Unfortunately, being human like we are, such is not always the case.

The first place photo in the soft focus challenge as an example, is an excellent photo. But think how much different it would have turned out had the 35 folks that gave it a 10, decided "This is a nice photo but I have seen too many kid pictures this challenge" and given it a 1.

Short of having an impartial panel to vote each week, however, I don't see ever overcoming this.
12/09/2003 04:13:11 PM · #18
Judging photos or any other kind of art is all about subjectivity tho. I simply don't understand how it could ever be unbiased.
12/09/2003 04:29:31 PM · #19
There is a big difference in constructive comments or critique, and just down right rude and sarcastic remarks, however, everyone knows that when you are in a group of many diverse opinions, you are going to have those few that have no idea nor do they care about how to be courteous and constructive at the same time, so, you just have to be aware of those few and ignore them, that is what I have decided to do.
12/09/2003 05:19:05 PM · #20
Dear Terry,

my first tought was to give you my best advice regarding your issue:
do not care at all!

Then I saw where that advice is driving me (mad) and I am not so sure anymore.

I am completely losing it (in photographic terms only, hopefully).

However, it's not the fault of the poor trolls though...

I have spent most of my extra-time programming for my latest free-minded project and, yeah, the combination of dark winter + Christmas really does not inspire me...

Just to explain it visually, I did want to post something for "Simplicity" but I came out with the weirdo Art that I exposed in the "where do you live" thread (who the hell starts those thread, anyway, Big Brother?)...

That's the level of mess where the lack of inspiration can drive you...

What kind of damage can a couple of trolls actually produce, compared to that? =)
12/09/2003 05:21:54 PM · #21
Terry,

I hope you hang in there, your photos are appriciated.

I love your nature shots and would hate seeing you not submitting new ones.

Hope you stay.

Van
12/09/2003 05:22:17 PM · #22
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Judging photos or any other kind of art is all about subjectivity tho. I simply don't understand how it could ever be unbiased.


I guess the constructive criticism is what I am leaning towards.

Take your rose photo in this last challenge. Would you rather have someone looking at it telling you that "your lighting is a bit too harsh for my tastes" or simply popping the photo open and saying "another flower, how boring".

I can't say for certain how to change this or if it will ever change.

If you notice my sig line simply states "I may not know art, but I do know what I like"

However, when voting just because I do not like the subject being photographed I do try to give it a fair vote based on the individual photo, not on whether or not I have seen the same subject 10 times in the challenge, or because it may be cliche, or whatever.
12/09/2003 05:32:36 PM · #23
My thoughts on critiques:
Bad points: Try to not to be negative to start with - this can be discouraging.
Good points: Try not to make them too robotic as this devalues the artistic intentions of the photographer.
Summary: Try to have an opinion either way other than just going for '5' as a cop-out (as a friend suggested). It's like voting 'I don't know' in a poll otherwise - and surely most people have an opinion?

;)
12/09/2003 06:11:45 PM · #24
Hey Terry,

You answered your own question as to why you should stay-- Your scores, therefore your photography has gotten better. You'll never find any joy if you are looking for others to give it to you. Derive satisfaction from your own photography & from your own feelings of improving. Afterall it was just one comment. And while it was crudely put, you know from that comment that at least one person doesn't like the cliche and maybe you'll look to stay away from ideas that have been expresses and explored before.

Zeuszen wrote that he takes about 400 pictures a week of things that appeal to HIM. And if one should fall nicely into a challenge than he'll enter. Now, granted not everyone can do that, I like the idea of taking photos because you like to do so & of things that appeal to YOU. The rest should be fun and something intersting to do.

If you need a break, than by all means take one. IMHO, I think you should chalk it up for what it's worth--just one comment. Hang in there & love the owrk that you do regardless of what others think. I hope you stick with it, if not, I'll see you in the flip side! :)
12/09/2003 06:46:28 PM · #25
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Judging photos or any other kind of art is all about subjectivity tho. I simply don't understand how it could ever be unbiased.


Judging and commenting invites subjectivity. I don't think it is or should be 'all about subjectivity. I agree that bias plays into the process, and to a very small extend, I'd consider this healthy.

It would be better, IMO, if we or, at least, some of us, most of the time, tried to approach images with the greatest degree of objectivity we are capable of, and to do this without denying us and others our personal preferences.

The best comment (IMO) is a critique (critos > to pick out for oneself, to choose). My emphasis is on comparision. A critic will have more or less models available for comparison. DPC provides a number of models. Numerous galleries, books, museums etc. provide a tradition and context.

I once saw a boy on a beach in Italy caressing the morning catch and saying 'ch'e bene, bene' or something similar. I'd say, he probably was a good critic of what is a good catch as much as of what beauty is and what less so. I think he made a good critic, because he had seen more fish in the morning light than I or you may see in a lifetime. He compared and, because of it, arrived at a sense of measure and delight.

This method means so much more to me than hearing what someone likes or dislikes without having any measure of comparison. The greater one's cultural arsenal, the greater his or hers ability to order and place a piece in context. Art critics, professional ones particularly, often are specialists in one field, whereas there are others (like the young fisherman in my example above) who's specialization has not prevented them from being generalists as well.

Now, when John (Setzler) criticizes exposure in a comment under my photo, I'm likely to take his comment to the bank. I will do the same with a comment on composition or any other explicit aesthetic consideration, if it comes from JJ (Béguin), for example. If it comes from user x, I need more than a general statement, before I'll consider it.

A general statement (and the bulk of the comments I have received are less than that) is only as good as a cheque drawn on a bank. Its value depends on what is there to meet it.

My point? If we don't have money in an account, let's not write any checks. Instead, let's use language like this in our comments: I feel that... It appears as if... it seems to me that... etc. Use question marks instead of exclamation marks! Use... or blank space for that which we do not know.

And above all, look at the pictures. Almost every challenge has a photo that should warrant some exitement. These photos, to me, are constructs and sources of energy (how's that for a working definition of art?). If I feel inept to criticise one, I may derive whatever knowledge I lacked from the next one. If I have the very human capacity to delight in a thing, I should have something to share that is neither offensive nor painful to read.



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