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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Adulthood...frustration boils over.
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12/05/2005 01:17:06 AM · #1
OK, I can take my lumps with everybody else. My Light on White entry was fairly rushed and poorly processed. In short, it sucked and paid the price. However, my entry for Adulthood seems to have fallen victim to the DPC disease.

262566.jpg
Final Score: 4.969

I am at least astute enough to know that this is not a sub-5 picture on technicals. That leaves me to postulate the following:

The majority spent a few seconds on the photo, did not see the connection as it was not spoon fed to them, and gave up.

I know I'm likely preaching to the choir here. Those who read posts on DPC likely take a little time to vote. But if we are constantly complaining about creativity not being rewarded, then somehow we need to change the culture where this photo is a sub-5.

For those who need it: The fallen log represents the sacrifice of adulthood to ensure that the young, who possess virility but lack strength, live on.

I thought long and hard about including more wood in the crop, but it took away from the picture and I figured that people would understand the image even if it was nearly implied (in fact it is not, the fallen log is definitely represented).

If this all sounds like sour grapes, then tell me and put me in my place. I do not deserve 6.0 every picture I enter. But if the voting community is going to be as concrete in its thinking here, and we are going to continually feed them (with iconic images put to a white background, something I'm as guilty of as the next person), then we may as well all just limit ourselves to such.

Comments are welcome. You don't need to placate me. I'm a big boy. I'd actually really appreciate comments from people who did give the pic a real look, but were still among the 76 people (32%) who voted 4 or lower.
12/05/2005 01:22:14 AM · #2
Doc I think this image was just way too out of the box IMHO. I scored this a 5 through technical merit. However, most often times, the DPC voter looks at the image and tries to tie it into the challenge. If none is seen, as I did, a low score is inevitable. This happened to me a few times (one being in the Room challenge). Photos that are technically sound , IMHO, do not deserve a score lower than a 5. But that's just me. It seems to be that by the resounding number of votes that are sub-5, most people thought the same way - that this image does not tie into the challenge description. I believe this is too metaphoric and thus suffered in the end.

12/05/2005 01:22:21 AM · #3
I must confess that I totally missed it. Despite your title, I didn't see the log. It could just as easily be a rock. The concept is strong, but I think it might have been easier to connect the dots by showing a little bark and a "young" shoot or bud rather than an "adult" mushroom. Like Rikki, I gave it a 5 on technical merit.

Message edited by author 2005-12-05 01:24:10.
12/05/2005 01:23:40 AM · #4
OK. I gave it a 4. It's technically OK, sure. But compositionally it lacks vigor in my eye, it doesn't really direct me or focus me. More importantly, it seems to me more of an image of youth than of adulthood, title notwithstanding. I understand what you're after here, from the title, but I felt (and feel) that it's misdirected for this challenge.

Robt.
12/05/2005 01:24:50 AM · #5
I didn't vote in this challenge, but if I had, I'd probably have given this a 4 or a 5. Looking at it, I have a real hard time seeing the log. Honestly, until you said that, I thought the moss and all was growing on a rock.
With everything you've said, I get it, and think it's neat. But if it came up while I was voting, I'd have been confused and probably wouldn't have made the connection...
12/05/2005 01:26:09 AM · #6
I didn't vote, but I find the connection to the challenge tenuous at best. Sorry. It's an opinion, and I own it. Clearly you disagree. That's the nature of the way things work, right?
12/05/2005 01:26:30 AM · #7
Thanks for the honesty. I know you guys vote properly so if you missed it, it's my fault. I did want a tree shoot Scalvert, but one was not to be found and I do love these mushrooms, even though they are a bitch to expose properly.

I started out in my DPC career being pretty strict with challenge qualification (when I voted). In my "old age" (heh, 3 months), I have mellowed quite a bit and don't really DNMC anything more than the most blatant.

I guess I don't really know what to do with this. I'll just move on. It's just a virtual 4.9, as are my ribbons. Perhaps I was most frustrated because I was taking to heart people crying for creativity. I can do "iconic" as good as the next guy. I go for the cerebral and get an electric shock for my efforts. Quickly the mouse learns the safe way through the maze...

Believe it or not...all these replies make me feel better not worse. Sometimes when you look at your entry all week (albeit, this entry was shot on the last day), any message seems painfully obvious. Guess I just misjudged on this one.

Luckily my Knife Fork Spoon entry has a white background... ;0)

Message edited by author 2005-12-05 01:28:56.
12/05/2005 01:27:06 AM · #8
Maybe people just didn't like it...

Edit to add: Even jjbequin, one of my idols, has several 4.xxx scores in his history...

Message edited by author 2005-12-05 01:28:47.
12/05/2005 01:30:13 AM · #9
I loved this picture. Kind of out of the box as Rikki said for most voters to get the connection but this was one of my 2 10's. Your colors and the damp woodsy feel is perfect.
12/05/2005 01:32:25 AM · #10
Magic
12/05/2005 01:36:00 AM · #11
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

OK, I can take my lumps with everybody else. My Light on White entry was fairly rushed and poorly processed. In short, it sucked and paid the price. However, my entry for Adulthood seems to have fallen victim to the DPC disease.

262566.jpg
Final Score: 4.969

I am at least astute enough to know that this is not a sub-5 picture on technicals. That leaves me to postulate the following:

The majority spent a few seconds on the photo, did not see the connection as it was not spoon fed to them, and gave up.

I know I'm likely preaching to the choir here. Those who read posts on DPC likely take a little time to vote. But if we are constantly complaining about creativity not being rewarded, then somehow we need to change the culture where this photo is a sub-5.

For those who need it: The fallen log represents the sacrifice of adulthood to ensure that the young, who possess virility but lack strength, live on.

I thought long and hard about including more wood in the crop, but it took away from the picture and I figured that people would understand the image even if it was nearly implied (in fact it is not, the fallen log is definitely represented).

If this all sounds like sour grapes, then tell me and put me in my place. I do not deserve 6.0 every picture I enter. But if the voting community is going to be as concrete in its thinking here, and we are going to continually feed them (with iconic images put to a white background, something I'm as guilty of as the next person), then we may as well all just limit ourselves to such.

Comments are welcome. You don't need to placate me. I'm a big boy. I'd actually really appreciate comments from people who did give the pic a real look, but were still among the 76 people (32%) who voted 4 or lower.


To tell you the truth, when I first saw this shot I thought it was another excuse for a macro of a flower, and I thought the contrast was too high. Then again, I only comment on my highest and lowest voted photos, so if you didn't get a comment from me, you most likely fell between a 4 and 9? LOL...Big gap, but I probably gave you a middle of the road 5.

A lot of people on here, and I have learned this myself, do not "get it" when it comes to photos that make you look more than 5 seconds and think more than 6. I personally didn't see a log, and I didn't get the title as it goes with the photo. I also thought it was some kind of weird flower and it just didn't register with me. Then again, if we could ALL reach through the screen and explain things to others, our scores would be much higher.

I don't know how many times I wish I could just shake a few people with some of the comments they leave. LOL....But people CRY for comments for votes on 1's and 2's, and then when you give them, they write you nasties in PM. If you don't give them, they CRY they didn't get any to explain why one voted so low. Same with creativity. They want it, but really don't take the time to actually look at it or for it. It's all a crap shoot on here. I am learning that REAL quick.

My photo for Knife Fork Spoon, "I think", is very very good. It may not be technically perfect because my camera sucks (getting a new Rebel XT next year), but it is still very good. The voters have NO idea what I went through to get the shot. They have no idea that if they REALLY look at it they may see something odd that should be counted in as part of the voting, and mine is very "in your face" kind of odd. With yours, I just seemed to miss it all together and because I find a lot of people on here tend to use flowers, macros, water drops, and landscapes for "excuses" in some entries just to use them, I thought yours was another.

Too bad we can't go back and change the past. Sometimes, at least in challenges, it could change a lot about who has ribbons and who doesn't. :)

Rose

Message edited by author 2005-12-05 01:38:09.
12/05/2005 01:38:41 AM · #12
It's easy, when we're working out of our own heads, to confuse obscurity with creativity. I'm as guilty of this as anyone on this site. I can't say HOW many times I've entered what I thought was a truly creative image only to realize in the end that it was simply obscure. The problem is in the differentiation of "idea" and "image", I think. There's nothing wrong with your idea, in other words, but the image has to communicate the idea in a relatively unambiguous way, and this one doesn't do that.

This is certainly an adjustment I've had to make :-(

R.
12/05/2005 01:41:02 AM · #13
Originally posted by bear_music:

It's easy, when we're working out of our own heads, to confuse obscurity with creativity. I'm as guilty of this as anyone on this site. I can't say HOW many times I've entered what I thought was a truly creative image only to realize in the end that it was simply obscure. The problem is in the differentiation of "idea" and "image", I think. There's nothing wrong with your idea, in other words, but the image has to communicate the idea in a relatively unambiguous way, and this one doesn't do that.

This is certainly an adjustment I've had to make :-(

R.


ABSOLUTELY agree with that statement.

Rose
12/05/2005 01:41:05 AM · #14
Originally posted by Rose8699:

I only comment on my highest and lowest voted photos, so if you didn't get a comment from me, you most likely fell between a 4 and 9? LOL...Big gap, but I probably gave you a middle of the road 5.


If you click on his image and look at the score graph, the score you gave will show as a red bar.

R.
12/05/2005 01:42:23 AM · #15
Jason: please do not feel too bad. I gave this image a 6 and even came back to it and I missed the fallen log. It is so camouflaged that I rechecked your title and took it in its poetic sense. The technique should have placed this image higher but consider, the Blue scored only a 6.5. That is, the voting was too low in general to push even adequate images below 5.

Your concept was a solid one but if I may say, the presentation failed to reveal one of the ingredients. I have a very quick eye and can surmise an image very quickly and when I fail to do so I make it a point to return. Can you believe on both views I missed the fallen log.

You know, because we shoot the image (the photographer) we know exactly what is in the image but many times I see where a viewer may have a problem. Either because of lighting or angle etc.

This happens to the best.
12/05/2005 01:53:28 AM · #16
Sorry mate, I gave it a 5. I missed the point and the photo just didn't leap out at me. I certainly would never have picked as one of your shots. You can do so much better!
12/05/2005 01:59:59 AM · #17
I have an entry in Knife Fork Spoon that follows your entry to some degree.. It's just too obscure. However, I entered it *knowing* this, and all will be revealed once the challenge is done.

I've spent more hours than I care to count bitching about DPC and voting and voters and this and that.. (as recently as the Free Study), and will probably spend many more hours..

but in the end, if you want to do well, you have to give up your personal feelings on a photo and spoon feed the people what they want. That's all there is to it.

Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it :)
12/05/2005 02:03:08 AM · #18
Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by Rose8699:

I only comment on my highest and lowest voted photos, so if you didn't get a comment from me, you most likely fell between a 4 and 9? LOL...Big gap, but I probably gave you a middle of the road 5.


If you click on his image and look at the score graph, the score you gave will show as a red bar.

R.


Yikes, then it looks like I gave the poor entrant a 4. Sorry bout that. Again, wish I knew all this before the fact. I most likely started at a 5 and went down one point on the contrast being what I thought was off. Nothing else seemed to hit me then the "excuse for an entry" factor I unfortunately probably took in too.

I often stated that we should at least be able to give a 300 word description with our photos. I think a LOT is lost sometimes between photo, title, and concept. It's really ashame.

Rose

Message edited by author 2005-12-05 02:04:10.
12/05/2005 02:07:35 AM · #19
Originally posted by Artyste:

I have an entry in Knife Fork Spoon that follows your entry to some degree.. It's just too obscure. However, I entered it *knowing* this, and all will be revealed once the challenge is done.

I've spent more hours than I care to count bitching about DPC and voting and voters and this and that.. (as recently as the Free Study), and will probably spend many more hours..

but in the end, if you want to do well, you have to give up your personal feelings on a photo and spoon feed the people what they want. That's all there is to it.

Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it :)


LOL...very well put. I have found you have to live and learn on here as to what the voter wants to see, and not what we want to portray. Now, if you don't care about scores, then by all means keep your personal preference just for the hell of it, but if you care about scores, with a bit of studying archives, you can pretty much tell what the voter wants and you have to shoot for THAT style and not your own style/concept/composition/etc.

Rose
12/05/2005 02:13:40 AM · #20
rose - have you callibrated your monitor lately?
I ask because i do not understand your referance to contrast. The colours looks quite balanced to me (but ive not dragged it into PS or anything).

Dr, i liked the picture a lot. I took it to be in referance to the reproductive cycle of fungus, the outwardsly visable section of a mushroom being its sexual organ indicating maturity due to ability to breed - see i read *too much* into peoples enteries haha.
12/05/2005 02:25:14 AM · #21
Originally posted by mesmeraj:

rose - have you callibrated your monitor lately?
I ask because i do not understand your referance to contrast. The colours looks quite balanced to me (but ive not dragged it into PS or anything).

Dr, i liked the picture a lot. I took it to be in referance to the reproductive cycle of fungus, the outwardsly visable section of a mushroom being its sexual organ indicating maturity due to ability to breed - see i read *too much* into peoples enteries haha.


Actually mesmeraj, I think vtruan took the same meaning. Interesting, isn't it?
12/05/2005 02:32:41 AM · #22
Vtrun is a biologist by trade, and i was majoring in phytotherapy (plants as medicine) so i guess our botanical backgrounds took us down that path haha.
12/05/2005 03:04:53 AM · #23
I think this may just have gone over a lot of people's heads. I haven't taken biology for over 40 years, and I barely remember anything about mushrooms. I did remember that awhile ago you could buy a log and grow your own mushrooms under the kitchen sink, so I pretty much used the title to help me along and took it on faith. I loved the colors and exposure and gave it a 6.

As for coming in lower than you anticipated. Join the club. IMHO my free study entry is great -- color, composition, exposure. You name it. It's got it. It just made it to 5.000. 8)


12/05/2005 03:41:37 AM · #24
Originally posted by Artyste:

...but in the end, if you want to do well, you have to give up your personal feelings on a photo and spoon feed the people what they want. That's all there is to it.
Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it :)

I do care about scores, but I'm not going to give up my personal feelings on my photos and be happy about it.
I see DPC and photography as a whole to be a kind of communication. When you speak, you take into consideration who are your listeners, what is their background in what you are speaking about. If you are too complex, your message could not be delivered, if you are too simple, this could ruin the message or even insult the listeners.

Don't give up your feelings. If you still like your picture after it was bombed by voters - don't get angry on them. They did not get it, or they did not like it - this is their response. No less, no more.
12/05/2005 03:44:23 AM · #25
Didn't vote, but a mushroom coming out of a mossy log doesn't scream adulthood to me. I would be happy with the 5. ;o)
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