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07/30/2009 09:57:34 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
This thread is not about commenting on other members' perceived personality disorders, and doing so is a violation of more than one forum rule. Your response was completely unnecessary and non-contributory to the discussion topic, and was certainly a clear example of a violation of the rule I cited.
I don't know what's bugging you (other than people not liking your suggestion), but your recent posts are pushing the boundaries. Now, I chose to post a "friendly reminder" to encourage a measure of self-discipline on your part. However, if you prefer, I will defer any further action to my compatriots ... |
Paul, I dont really care whether people like my suggestions or not. It is not that close to my heart. If you feel my recent posts are pushing boundaries, I'm sorry you feel that way. If you wish to get me barred, go ahead. It may be a popular choice.
If however you feel it important to provide harbor for all the wounded kittens, you'll do that. Lets be clear though, my idea did not wound them neither did my comments. I do not ask for their problems and will not accept them even slightly suggesting I am even partially responsible for their choices.
I'll await your wisdom I guess.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 21:58:25. |
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07/30/2009 10:17:14 PM · #127 |
Wow I can't believe how personal this all turned out to be... I go to sleep and this is what it turns into.
Everybody needs to just chill out we're just talking here. Seriously. |
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07/30/2009 10:48:21 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Wow I can't believe how personal this all turned out to be... I go to sleep and this is what it turns into.
Everybody needs to just chill out we're just talking here. Seriously. |
But it has provided such great entertainment |
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07/30/2009 11:05:14 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Then why are you here where the premise of the challenges is popular photography? |
To learn....and the winners in challenges are less likely to influence me than someone I find here who has a style and an attitude that I look for in my work.
I've improved more from people who inspire me by their work, not what their score is.
I was surprised not so very long ago, and delighted, to have actually achieved a PB that is higher than the person who has done the most for me.....the man whom I most consider a mentor and having the greatest influence in helping me to become comfortable, and develop, the photographer that I am that I could move forward and grow, and NOT put so much value on how I do in a challenge if I'm happy with my image.
Do I think I'm now a better photog? That the student has supassed his master? Not on your life! The master has shared what was taught him, and cared enough to pass it along, and he takes great delight in seeing his work come to fruition.
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>)
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07/30/2009 11:12:13 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
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07/30/2009 11:17:33 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
Go for it, Sunshine!......8>)
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07/30/2009 11:19:57 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
Go for it, Sunshine!......8>) |
Gotta try harder Jeb. Wont work but thanks. Sand in the underwear is more effective and pleasurable. |
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07/30/2009 11:30:29 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Go for it, Sunshine!......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Gotta try harder Jeb. Wont work but thanks. Sand in the underwear is more effective and pleasurable. |
You're certainly on a roll!
Just out of curiosity......you've made your mark as far as images the appeal here, you've done a lot of decent work, you seem to know your way around a camera.....
What do you get out of this place, and what do you want from it from here?
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07/31/2009 12:13:07 AM · #134 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Go for it, Sunshine!......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Gotta try harder Jeb. Wont work but thanks. Sand in the underwear is more effective and pleasurable. |
You're certainly on a roll!
Just out of curiosity......you've made your mark as far as images the appeal here, you've done a lot of decent work, you seem to know your way around a camera.....
What do you get out of this place, and what do you want from it from here? |
Thanks for asking Jeb. On the most part, I get a chuckle out of entering the challenges though I find many migrate to this site for the social aspect and less for the eagerness to learn and excel. But, that is just my opinion and may be right or may be wrong. Who cares.
The part that really gets my goat is when someone tables an idea and all of the lame ducks jump out and bash the OP for an idea. Just an idea for goodness sake and thats all.
Seldom do I hear something to the effect of "Interesting, how do you see this working"? Its always prefaced by how the idea will wound them.
Its the same recycled story where the respondents MUST state how the IDEA is offensive to their moral fiber, how the idea will destroy the meaning of DPC forever and how dare the idea even be tabled. Then starts the suggestion that the idea is some deep seeded ailment where the OP must be healed by the collective.
Give me break, its just a talk! Yes, just a talk and that's all.
Its not just me. It happens to virtually anyone who posts some "idea" on this site. For goodness sake, create an environment where people are encouraged to share ideas and not one where they fear you will become a pariah for wanting to enhance the experience of the site.
I'm sorry but I don't want to learn photography from a majority of the members on this site. They have little to teach me....... sorry. A "few" do but it seems less every day. What can we do to retain the extraordinary talent that had developed on this site and left?? We lose them with a fair amount of regularity and this is a problem. These are, and should be, our mentors! Create an environment where they want to be. If it means stroking their egos, do so. Who cares, its a fantastic investment! We need to learn from these masters, we need access to them.
If you turn around and say they got their nose out of joint and left, then you have to try to get their nose "in" joint again. It just makes sense ........ for a learning site.
Too many students here and not enough competent teachers. There are some good ones, don't get me wrong, but there are a whole heap of amazing artists that have left. This makes me sad when we should have tried to keep them.
It always comes down to the same complaints, people want change. Yes they want some change. I know Langdon is trying and he has created something that is a very strong draw. The change may be slow, but a great place to start is the willingness of the community to discuss it. To embrace change as something better and not ostracize those who are bold enough to speak up with ideas now and then.
I have been here for 5 years now and feel familiar with the setup. It works for me on the most part. I feel I have become a "photographer". Wow,I can actually say that with some certainty and confidence. Why is it unreasonable to ask for the site to grow with many of those who have grown up on the site? Many of the photographers here have completed DPC grade school. Let them continue their learning here by providing them with a environment where they can be challenged and praised at the same time. These are the cream of the crop and will be ambassadors to the site. They will be the wisdom that makes this site flourish.
That's all I want. Is that unreasonable?
lol
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07/31/2009 12:18:49 AM · #135 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That this site is simply about the challenges to me is laughable......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
When somebody makes that statement,I may laugh alongside you. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Go for it, Sunshine!......8>) |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Gotta try harder Jeb. Wont work but thanks. Sand in the underwear is more effective and pleasurable. |
You're certainly on a roll!
Just out of curiosity......you've made your mark as far as images the appeal here, you've done a lot of decent work, you seem to know your way around a camera.....
What do you get out of this place, and what do you want from it from here? |
Thanks for asking Jeb. On the most part, I get a chuckle out of entering the challenges though I find many migrate to this site for the social aspect and less for the eagerness to learn and excel. But, that is just my opinion and may be right or may be wrong. Who cares.
The part that really gets my goat is when someone tables an idea and all of the lame ducks jump out and bash the OP for an idea. Just an idea for goodness sake and thats all.
Seldom do I hear something to the effect of "Interesting, how do you see this working"? Its always prefaced by how the idea will wound them.
Its the same recycled story where the respondents MUST state how the IDEA is offensive to their moral fiber, how the idea will destroy the meaning of DPC forever and how dare the idea even be tabled. Then starts the suggestion that the idea is some deep seeded ailment where the OP must be healed by the collective.
Give me break, its just a talk! Yes, just a talk and that's all.
Its not just me. It happens to virtually anyone who posts some "idea" on this site. For goodness sake, create an environment where people are encouraged to share ideas and not one where they fear you will become a pariah for wanting to enhance the experience of the site.
I'm sorry but I don't want to learn photography from a majority of the members on this site. They have little to teach me....... sorry. A "few" do but it seems less every day. What can we do to retain the extraordinary talent that had developed on this site and left?? We lose them with a fair amount of regularity and this is a problem. These are, and should be, our mentors! Create an environment where they want to be. If it means stroking their egos, do so. Who cares, its a fantastic investment! We need to learn from these masters, we need access to them.
If you turn around and say they got their nose out of joint and left, then you have to try to get their nose "in" joint again. It just makes sense ........ for a learning site.
Too many students here and not enough competent teachers. There are some good ones, don't get me wrong, but there are a whole heap of amazing artists that have left. This makes me sad when we should have tried to keep them.
It always comes down to the same complaints, people want change. Yes they want some change. I know Langdon is trying and he has created something that is a very strong draw. The change may be slow, but a great place to start is the willingness of the community to discuss it. To embrace change as something better and not ostracize those who are bold enough to speak up with ideas now and then.
I have been here for 5 years now and feel familiar with the setup. It works for me on the most part. I feel I have become a "photographer". Wow,I can actually say that with some certainty and confidence. Why is it unreasonable to ask for the site to grow with many of those who have grown up on the site? Many of the photographers here have completed DPC grade school. Let them continue their learning here by providing them with a environment where they can be challenged and praised at the same time. These are the cream of the crop and will be ambassadors to the site. They will be the wisdom that makes this site flourish.
That's all I want. Is that unreasonable?
lol |
While you make a lot of great arguments HERE, in this final post, the problem is that while you were angrily lashing out at the people that were just 'wounded', as you put it, you also grouped in the people with very solid, reasonable, and intelligent responses to your suggestion, and kept lashing out at everyone, regardless.
Because of that, people stopped taking you seriously.
You resorted to childish insults and personal attacks, and came across just as 'wounded' as the people you are supposedly lashing out against.
You want a push for proper discussion of ideas? Become a catalyst for one, instead of simply resorting to an emotional outburst at perceived slights.
Message edited by author 2009-07-31 00:19:11. |
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07/31/2009 12:24:24 AM · #136 |
| You guys shouldn't play so ruff. Someone's going to start crying... Obviously someone felt like their little feelings got hurt when they "Got Swarmed..." Cry me a river, your comments have been condescending to the point that you were warned by a mod. I don't know about you, but if "the popular choice" was to get rid of me, instead of blaming everyone else and chucking out indirect insults, I might think at some point "Gee. Maybe its me...Maybe I'm the problem..." |
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07/31/2009 12:27:19 AM · #137 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
While you make a lot of great arguments HERE, in this final post, the problem is that while you were angrily lashing out at the people that were just 'wounded', as you put it, you also grouped in the people with very solid, reasonable, and intelligent responses to your suggestion, and kept lashing out at everyone, regardless.
Because of that, people stopped taking you seriously.
You resorted to childish insults and personal attacks, and came across just as 'wounded' as the people you are supposedly lashing out against.
You want a push for proper discussion of ideas? Become a catalyst for one, instead of simply resorting to an emotional outburst at perceived slights. |
I may have been terse with those who offered responses that were not even on topic. Those who fabricated scenarios which I had never tabled seek attention in their own right. Those who were on topic received respectful responses. I will not validate someone else's baggage for the purpose of communal love. I don't really feel that connection.
Childish insults and personal attacks, that is a matter of opinion I guess? |
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07/31/2009 01:07:22 AM · #138 |
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07/31/2009 01:25:11 AM · #139 |
| Well hey, if what you want is more participation by the site's extraordinary talents, why not lobby for more Masters challenges? Limit participants to those with 6 or more ribbons or an average above a 6.0. You eliminate the chaff and craptography from the beginning and provide a venue to encourage the extraordinary talents to come back and play. And the mechanisms for such an adventure are already in place. |
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07/31/2009 01:40:22 AM · #140 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Well hey, if what you want is more participation by the site's extraordinary talents, why not lobby for more Masters challenges? Limit participants to those with 6 or more ribbons or an average above a 6.0. You eliminate the chaff and craptography from the beginning and provide a venue to encourage the extraordinary talents to come back and play. And the mechanisms for such an adventure are already in place. |
I don't know whether the Masters challenges are the key. I like the idea of all entrants being offered a chance to submit. I think that is how you find the up and comers. We've talked about the removal of the chaff enough though.
I'd like to see tiered standings for skill progression. That would be cool and really excite the stat geeks. I could see that becoming quite addictive.
I think it would be really cool if training sessions were facilitated through the site and the masters were requested to create a mentor group. That would give them a sense of ownership and bonding.
It may be cool if the newbies were offered a chance to conduct the interviews with the masters. That would be engaging and speed up the interview portion of the site.
Lotsa things would be cheap and easy in my opinion. |
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07/31/2009 01:59:25 AM · #141 |
Up and comers are covered by the 6+ score bit. They'll have the required ribbons soon enough.
We have had some mentorship groups - problem is usually that the extraordinary talents are usually very busy.
Not sure how tiered standings would work - and how would they take into account those who've been on the site for ages and will therefore never leave the tier they get stuck in? (Not whining - don't go off on me - just a question!) |
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07/31/2009 02:00:24 AM · #142 |
Sorry, but I thought your original idea was way unwieldy. Kudos to NikonJeb for drawing you out, and to Melethia for taking you up. We have had photographer interviews before, but I haven't seen anything new. Maybe someone could interview you?
Message edited by author 2009-07-31 02:04:57. |
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07/31/2009 02:13:09 AM · #143 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Well hey, if what you want is more participation by the site's extraordinary talents, why not lobby for more Masters challenges? Limit participants to those with 6 or more ribbons or an average above a 6.0. You eliminate the chaff and craptography from the beginning and provide a venue to encourage the extraordinary talents to come back and play. And the mechanisms for such an adventure are already in place. |
I don't know whether the Masters challenges are the key. I like the idea of all entrants being offered a chance to submit. I think that is how you find the up and comers. We've talked about the removal of the chaff enough though.
I'd like to see tiered standings for skill progression. That would be cool and really excite the stat geeks. I could see that becoming quite addictive.
I think it would be really cool if training sessions were facilitated through the site and the masters were requested to create a mentor group. That would give them a sense of ownership and bonding.
It may be cool if the newbies were offered a chance to conduct the interviews with the masters. That would be engaging and speed up the interview portion of the site.
Lotsa things would be cheap and easy in my opinion. |
I'm only 29 DPC points away from becoming a level 30 PHOTOG! I CAN'T STOP NOW! |
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07/31/2009 02:14:50 AM · #144 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Up and comers are covered by the 6+ score bit. They'll have the required ribbons soon enough.
We have had some mentorship groups - problem is usually that the extraordinary talents are usually very busy.
Not sure how tiered standings would work - and how would they take into account those who've been on the site for ages and will therefore never leave the tier they get stuck in? (Not whining - don't go off on me - just a question!) |
I think the idea of the groups should actually be hard coded into the site instead of having them as volunteer side projects. It really cannot be that difficult to setup an area that allows one to walk in and join a group at the click of a button. Give them a virtual badge when they have completed a trining session with a group and you will see people scurrying to get all their merit badges.
Set up a framework for a basic photo curriculum and allow the masters to plug themselves into the course and teach the core aspects with their own style. Wow that would be cool for the students and the teachers. Could you imaging taking the basic portrait module with Librodo as your teacher?
I've noticed there is a definite fixation on stats here on DPC. I also recognize that some of us are techno geeks and some of us wish they could shoot everything on auto. For the stats crazed bunch, I'd like to see more robust stats and predetermined milestones for achievement.
For example, 5 ribbon winners are not allowed to compete in beginner challenges. They must compete with statistically comparable photographers. How that is to be structured is a mystery but it might be sorta cool. It can be done. There may be a chance to attain the 3rd degree black belt of DPC photography status. That would be fun! That would be a goal for many who are comfortable with their photo hobby being nothing more than this site.
Getting stuck in a tier can be handled by having to maintain a certain level of performance or pushing to excel. Complacency will make you slide backwards ....... possibly. It ould be fun figuring that one out.
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07/31/2009 02:24:04 AM · #145 |
These workshop/training sessions you speak of are an awesome idea.
Sorta like the tutorials meets David Hobby (Strobist) Boot Camp.
Excellent suggestion. |
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07/31/2009 02:48:21 AM · #146 |
The "stuck in a tier" thing is a statistical issue, not a "try harder" issue - after so many challenges, your numbers just don't change much. I watch the x.xx00 places in my average now. The x's don't change anymore.
What's Librodo's incentive for teaching? Everyone would LOVE to have training sessions, but how do you get the masters to teach them? |
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07/31/2009 02:55:31 AM · #147 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
The "stuck in a tier" thing is a statistical issue, not a "try harder" issue - after so many challenges, your numbers just don't change much. I watch the x.xx00 places in my average now. The x's don't change anymore.
What's Librodo's incentive for teaching? Everyone would LOVE to have training sessions, but how do you get the masters to teach them? |
Getting Manny to come back may be near impossible. Getting the next "Manny" to stay here will be much easier. See my point?
Oh look,  Goodmanjust popped by for a vist. Haven't seen her in a while. ;-)
One more thing, the current statistics are really useless after a while.I'd rather see a rolling average of the last X number of challenges or the last x number of months. That would be great IMO.
Message edited by author 2009-07-31 03:01:43. |
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07/31/2009 03:06:03 AM · #148 |
I've learned a lot from this site. Not just looking at the "good stuff" but some of the ok stuff and the outright bad stuff. Most people on this site sit right on the top of the bell curve (or around it). To learn how to start looking at my own plain jane average stuff and improve it, I look at other "average" images and try to look critically at them.
I'd also like to point out Ivo that this image  would not have made the top 50. Not even close. Yet your comments indicate that you like it. This is exactly the reason why "culling the herd" is a bad idea. We wouldn't get to see the images that are out of the box and push the limits of creativity.
And one more point if I may. What's stopping you from cherry picking the images you vote on yourself? Nothing is stopping you. No one is forcing you to vote on every image. You can vote on just the "good" ones if that's what you want. If you want to skip an image just hit the right arrow button on your keyboard. The rest of us just want the choice. By doing an elimination you take that choice away. |
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07/31/2009 03:09:40 AM · #149 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I've noticed there is a definite fixation on stats here on DPC. I also recognize that some of us are techno geeks and some of us wish they could shoot everything on auto. For the stats crazed bunch, I'd like to see more robust stats and predetermined milestones for achievement.
For example, 5 ribbon winners are not allowed to compete in beginner challenges. They must compete with statistically comparable photographers. How that is to be structured is a mystery but it might be sorta cool. It can be done. There may be a chance to attain the 3rd degree black belt of DPC photography status. That would be fun! That would be a goal for many who are comfortable with their photo hobby being nothing more than this site.
Getting stuck in a tier can be handled by having to maintain a certain level of performance or pushing to excel. Complacency will make you slide backwards ....... possibly. It ould be fun figuring that one out. |
Personally I like this idea and its been brought up a few times (I think I might have brought it up myself too - its actually how my local camera club operates). There was a good reason for not doing it but I can't remember it.
Message edited by author 2009-07-31 03:09:58. |
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07/31/2009 04:59:56 AM · #150 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Getting Manny to come back may be near impossible. Getting the next "Manny" to stay here will be much easier. See my point? |
Do you really believe that Manny would still be a regular participant if he would own the triple DPC black belt and crave for the fourth level? Not so sure, his ribbon-rainbow looks just as pretty. My guess is that he grew out of this community. You can raise the requirements for the community, this could well make him stay, but then the plebs like me might start to leave...
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