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07/30/2009 01:09:08 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
...If your referring to this image, there were a few typos in your stats... |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
No, it was a close one, but I changed to make a point (not knowing someone actually check it)
The point is, if you check others, and maybe yours... most have the same pattern. Low vs. High scores. |
If you want to be fair about it, you should throw out the ridiculous high votes from the people who comment.
Their effusive enthusiasm and enjoyment of the image represents an obviously small and unbalanced segment of the voters.
They're as bad as the trolls in their ridiculous range of votes.
Avg (all users): 6.9492
Avg (commenters): 7.9000
Avg (participants): 6.8070
Avg (non-participants): 7.0820
Avg (all users): 7.1984
Avg (commenters): 8.0667
Avg (participants): 7.2600
Avg (non-participants): 7.1579
I mean.....c'mon, get a grip!
8>)
ETA: I just noticed on my Abandoned entry that the participant vote is HIGHER!!! LOL!!!
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 13:10:42. |
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07/30/2009 01:09:56 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Melethia:
I don't know who the daytime soap people are, nor do I watch Dr Phil (though I think I know who he is?) but I still wanna know what the paring down of the entries provides. |
My wife records my daytime soaps for me, you really are missing out. ;-)
Look at it this way:
Lets say on the last two days of voting, there are 50 images remaining from the original field of 500.
These last 50 images are considered to be the most popular, not necessarily the "best", but the most popular.
All other images are still visible but have been removed from voting. The last 50 get the balance of the votes and most likely the balance of the comments. Good and Bad. I'd say if the image I wanted to see in the top 50 was not there, I'd be a bit more critical of the remaining images with my comments. Maybe I'd review the remaining images and see some things I would have breezed over first time round?
All in all, it would remove the unpopular distractions from the "competition" and allow concentrated focus on the remaining images which have "passed the grade".
I think it would be heck of a lot more efficient and offer greater reward for those striving for excellence ON THIS SITE.
I hope that clears things up? |
It might be an interesting experiment to try though may be a bit too much work for a one off. You could always set this up somewhere else and invite people to participate. |
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07/30/2009 01:18:41 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I think when you click on a thumbnail during voting, you should be redirected to another shot. That would be funny as hell. |
Well, this would definitely prevent thumbnail voting, lol!
My scores of late seem to get lower and lower, not because they are that bad, but because the first few votes seem to be low and mine aren't "stock" type shots, so don't appeal as broadly, but they do appeal.
Example: 
This tanked hard, but the averages were quite interesting amongst the votes:
Avg (all users): 5.0484
Avg (commenters): 7.2500
Avg (participants): 4.5952
Avg (non-participants): 5.2805
I would never have had the opportunity to get the great comments I did had we dropped the bottom "X" percent after first day. Edit for typo...
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 13:29:10. |
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07/30/2009 01:25:24 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Look at it this way:
Lets say on the last two days of voting, there are 50 images remaining from the original field of 500.
These last 50 images are considered to be the most popular, not necessarily the "best", but the most popular.
All other images are still visible but have been removed from voting. The last 50 get the balance of the votes and most likely the balance of the comments. Good and Bad. I'd say if the image I wanted to see in the top 50 was not there, I'd be a bit more critical of the remaining images with my comments. Maybe I'd review the remaining images and see some things I would have breezed over first time round?
All in all, it would remove the unpopular distractions from the "competition" and allow concentrated focus on the remaining images which have "passed the grade".
I think it would be heck of a lot more efficient and offer greater reward for those striving for excellence ON THIS SITE.
I hope that clears things up? |
This would honestly keep me from voting. Why would I take the effort or time to vote to basically see my votes thrown away? My taste does not sway towards the cream that usually rises to the top here. We all need to realize that people are here for many different reasons...not just to attain "excellence ON THIS SITE". The homogeneity of that would be frightening. We all suffer from different tastes. I just don't see the purpose of alienating those that don't know "excellence" when they see it, either by entering or voting.
How many layers of charcoal and sand does there need to be so no one will be subjected to the "unpopular distractions"?
I think DPC is fine the way it is...or at least acceptable for what it is.
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07/30/2009 01:36:03 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by RKT:
This would honestly keep me from voting. Why would I take the effort or time to vote to basically see my votes thrown away? My taste does not sway towards the cream that usually rises to the top here. We all need to realize that people are here for many different reasons...not just to attain "excellence ON THIS SITE". The homogeneity of that would be frightening. We all suffer from different tastes. I just don't see the purpose of alienating those that don't know "excellence" when they see it, either by entering or voting.
How many layers of charcoal and sand does there need to be so no one will be subjected to the "unpopular distractions"?
I think DPC is fine the way it is...or at least acceptable for what it is. |
Then why are you here where the premise of the challenges is popular photography? This is a sincere question and not one meant to tell you to "beat it".
Is this some form of the "Green Eggs and Ham syndrome"?
Though I too find many images which ribbon to not be of my taste, I accept they are the taste of the majority. Like it or not, thats the way it works ...... HERE.
So, knowing that, why HERE and not someplace like Photopoints where creativity is embraced? |
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07/30/2009 01:46:29 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Then why are you here where the premise of the challenges is popular photography? This is a sincere question and not one meant to tell you to "beat it".
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I tried entering a photo at 1X a while ago, and got rejected within a day. I think there is even a thread for 1x rejects somewhere on DPC. Since then, I have not gone back to 1X, partially because I think they are elitist, but also because I feel a bit intimidated being judged on minute qualities (my submission to 1X won a blue ribbon here).
Had I received the same rejection here when I first started, being rejected, or being dumped out of voting before the voting period even stopped, I likely would have left the site, and not returned. As it is, I just lurked here for 2 years without posting anything because I felt intimidated.
This site is for popular photography, AND for the amateur photographer. I think dumping the lowest scoring photos after a day or two of voting says to the beginner photographer that they are not welcome here, whether that is the intention or not. Dumping the lowest scoring photos is a bad idea.
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07/30/2009 01:55:43 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
I think dumping the lowest scoring photos after a day or two of voting says to the beginner photographer that they are not welcome here, whether that is the intention or not. |
I could not quite figure out how to put it into words, but you nailed it.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 13:55:50. |
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07/30/2009 01:57:20 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Then why are you here where the premise of the challenges is popular photography? This is a sincere question and not one meant to tell you to "beat it".
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I tried entering a photo at 1X a while ago, and got rejected within a day. I think there is even a thread for 1x rejects somewhere on DPC. Since then, I have not gone back to 1X, partially because I think they are elitist, but also because I feel a bit intimidated being judged on minute qualities (my submission to 1X won a blue ribbon here).
Had I received the same rejection here when I first started, being rejected, or being dumped out of voting before the voting period even stopped, I likely would have left the site, and not returned. As it is, I just lurked here for 2 years without posting anything because I felt intimidated.
This site is for popular photography, AND for the amateur photographer. I think dumping the lowest scoring photos after a day or two of voting says to the beginner photographer that they are not welcome here, whether that is the intention or not. Dumping the lowest scoring photos is a bad idea. |
I agree on a broad scale it would be unfavorable. Nobody stated a whole site change.
For the same reason you didnt like, there are others who do?
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07/30/2009 02:05:53 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I agree on a broad scale it would be unfavorable. Nobody stated a whole site change.
For the same reason you didnt like, there are others who do? |
Well, then because this site is about popularity, perhaps popularity in how the images are voted on is also important. |
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07/30/2009 02:13:29 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by Ivo:
I agree on a broad scale it would be unfavorable. Nobody stated a whole site change.
For the same reason you didn't like, there are others who do? |
Well, then because this site is about popularity, perhaps popularity in how the images are voted on is also important. |
This is really quite eerie.
I have stated this concept be tried on something like a free study and NOT the whole site. The resistance to any sort of change in the way things are done is almost bigoted? Is this place a cult compound of sort? Sure seems like it at times.
Anyhow, this is pointless and I feel I'm getting swarmed.
I'll be a good DPCbot and keep my mouth shut. ;-) |
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07/30/2009 02:27:28 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Is this place a cult compound of sort? |
Yes.... all hail Slippy!!!
I didn't intend to make you feel swarmed, I was just participating in the discussion, that is all.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 14:27:38. |
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07/30/2009 02:29:24 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
I have stated this concept be tried on something like a free study and NOT the whole site. |
I guess I missed that part. |
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07/30/2009 02:37:30 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by RKT:
This would honestly keep me from voting. Why would I take the effort or time to vote to basically see my votes thrown away? My taste does not sway towards the cream that usually rises to the top here. We all need to realize that people are here for many different reasons...not just to attain "excellence ON THIS SITE". The homogeneity of that would be frightening. We all suffer from different tastes. I just don't see the purpose of alienating those that don't know "excellence" when they see it, either by entering or voting.
How many layers of charcoal and sand does there need to be so no one will be subjected to the "unpopular distractions"?
I think DPC is fine the way it is...or at least acceptable for what it is. |
Then why are you here where the premise of the challenges is popular photography? This is a sincere question and not one meant to tell you to "beat it".
Is this some form of the "Green Eggs and Ham syndrome"?
Though I too find many images which ribbon to not be of my taste, I accept they are the taste of the majority. Like it or not, thats the way it works ...... HERE.
So, knowing that, why HERE and not someplace like Photopoints where creativity is embraced? |
I didn't arrive at DPC back in 2005 for the challenges. Being new to digital photography, I was looking for a place to learn. I'm not new to photography...I didn't pick up a camera yesterday, last weekend, or even four years ago. I've been at it for a little over 25 years. But I knew nothing of levels, curves, histograms, and the like. I have learned so much here from some really great people! It is for those people I am here. I enjoy them, we share our thoughts, images...what we have in common is how we tend to look at things. It's not all about the competition for some of us.
Like it or not, thats the way it works ...... HERE.
I know that, many of us know that. Why do you assume we don't? Some of us just have a higher tolerance than those who have packed their toys up and left. There is room for ALL of us here.
So, knowing that, why HERE and not someplace like Photopoints where creativity is embraced
I tried photopoints, I got tired of the lack of depth in the commenting. Same goes for flickr and about a billion other places. The question is though, why should I have to go elsewhere if I want to be creative, or look at creative work? Does everything have to cater to the lowest common denominator? Creativity is embraced here. It may not always win ribbons or be to everyones liking or accumulate hundreds of favorites...but it is here. It's just a smaller group hug of sorts, but usually a warmer, more sincere sort of hug.
eta: typo...zoiks.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 14:40:24. |
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07/30/2009 03:56:47 PM · #89 |
The proposals in this thread and all the similar discussions we've had previously seem to have lost sight of the original purpose of the site -- for us to help each other become better photographers, using the challenges as a format for that mutual education.
Originally posted by About DPC Page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. |
If the goal of DPC was simply to run a contest and arrive at the "winner" by the most efficient and expeditious means available, then perhaps these types of suggestions would have more merit. But if the goal is for people to receive feedback on their photographs from their fellow photographers, these proposals completely undermine it.
Specifically, the idea of letting people who happen to have the time to vote on the first day determine which photos the rest of us can see is completely unfair to members who don't happen to find that schedule convenient, and additionally presents a huge problem of regulating potential manipulation of the process. We all have the same time to enter, follow the same rules, and we should all have the same opportunity to see/vote/comment on all of the submissions, and to have our submission seen by everyone.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 15:57:16. |
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07/30/2009 04:04:13 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
...Originally posted by About DPC Page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. |
... |
This is now WAAAAAAAY beyond that, I can tell you this much,
I use my ribbons to get business from people; they do go check my work on this site, not only my own website!
...and it is NOT easy to get one of those stinking little icons, I tell ya that much. So, it is something, not only learning anymore... more than that... much more than that. |
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07/30/2009 04:32:39 PM · #91 |
| Right, but those posthumous ribbons I've been getting have been inundating me with more than I can handle. |
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07/30/2009 04:54:19 PM · #92 |
Haven't read enough of the thread to see if I really understand. But how could you possibly drop the bottom photos? How can you know they're the bottom photos?
This is my son's graph for one of the current challenges:
He was one of the bottom for quite awhile in the beginning, but it has skyrocketed since. I have had photos that were the opposite-- stated out extremely high, stayed there for quite awhile and then plummeted. Give everyone their fair chance at the votes.
This is a site for everyone -- not the elite. If you want to be elitist, go to 1x. |
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07/30/2009 05:00:52 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Haven't read enough of the thread to see if I really understand. But how could you possibly drop the bottom photos? How can you know they're the bottom photos?
This is my son's graph for one of the current challenges:
He was one of the bottom for quite awhile in the beginning, but it has skyrocketed since. I have had photos that were the opposite-- stated out extremely high, stayed there for quite awhile and then plummeted. Give everyone their fair chance at the votes.
This is a site for everyone -- not the elite. If you want to be elitist, go to 1x. |
So if you have not read enough of the thread to really understand, why are you commenting on something you don't really understand?
Is this a PTA meeting or sumthin?? |
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07/30/2009 05:02:47 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Haven't read enough of the thread to see if I really understand. But how could you possibly drop the bottom photos? How can you know they're the bottom photos?
This is my son's graph for one of the current challenges:
He was one of the bottom for quite awhile in the beginning, but it has skyrocketed since. I have had photos that were the opposite-- stated out extremely high, stayed there for quite awhile and then plummeted. Give everyone their fair chance at the votes.
This is a site for everyone -- not the elite. If you want to be elitist, go to 1x. |
So if you have not read enough of the thread to really understand, why are you commenting on something you don't really understand?
Is this a PTA meeting or sumthin?? |
I think she captured the gist quite well based on the example she presented as a potential problem with the proposal. |
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07/30/2009 05:05:05 PM · #95 |
That was uncalled for. In fact, vawendy's point spoke exactly to the weakness of your proposal. |
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07/30/2009 05:07:08 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
... and it is NOT easy to get one of those stinking little icons, I tell ya that much. |
I'm the one person here you probably don't need to tell that to. :-)
However, however far you have progressed, the site has to remain as accessible and useful for a newcomer today as when you came.
Message edited by author 2009-07-30 17:07:59. |
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07/30/2009 05:09:15 PM · #97 |
I say ban everyone that isn't my friend.
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07/30/2009 05:10:50 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by tnun:
That was uncalled for. In fact, vawendy's point spoke exactly to the weakness of your proposal. |
precisely. I think it is an excellent example of one reason why this idea simply would not work.
And, I find it ironic that I'm a "dpcbot" because I don't think it is a good idea to ensure that only a certain kind of photography gets exposure. |
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07/30/2009 05:12:54 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by Melethia:
I don't know who the daytime soap people are, nor do I watch Dr Phil (though I think I know who he is?) but I still wanna know what the paring down of the entries provides. |
My wife records my daytime soaps for me, you really are missing out. ;-)
Look at it this way:
Lets say on the last two days of voting, there are 50 images remaining from the original field of 500.
These last 50 images are considered to be the most popular, not necessarily the "best", but the most popular.
All other images are still visible but have been removed from voting. The last 50 get the balance of the votes and most likely the balance of the comments. Good and Bad. I'd say if the image I wanted to see in the top 50 was not there, I'd be a bit more critical of the remaining images with my comments. Maybe I'd review the remaining images and see some things I would have breezed over first time round?
All in all, it would remove the unpopular distractions from the "competition" and allow concentrated focus on the remaining images which have "passed the grade".
I think it would be heck of a lot more efficient and offer greater reward for those striving for excellence ON THIS SITE.
I hope that clears things up? |
The bolded part is why I think this is a sad idea.
And I'm still unclear how it is more efficient? Do I only get to vote once on the images, or do I have to vote in each "round?" |
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07/30/2009 05:13:13 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Haven't read enough of the thread to see if I really understand. But how could you possibly drop the bottom photos? How can you know they're the bottom photos?
This is my son's graph for one of the current challenges:
He was one of the bottom for quite awhile in the beginning, but it has skyrocketed since. I have had photos that were the opposite-- stated out extremely high, stayed there for quite awhile and then plummeted. Give everyone their fair chance at the votes.
This is a site for everyone -- not the elite. If you want to be elitist, go to 1x. |
So if you have not read enough of the thread to really understand, why are you commenting on something you don't really understand?
Is this a PTA meeting or sumthin?? |
I think she captured the gist quite well based on the example she presented as a potential problem with the proposal. |
Its the sanctimonious comments like "This is a site for everyone -- not the elite. If you want to be elitist, go to 1x. " that just irk me.
Try this on for size, "If you want better, be better and quit making excuses".
Sorry this herd mentality is really painful.
1x you said? |
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