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07/06/2009 10:00:41 PM · #1 |
I have just been wondering if people out of the gay community supports equality. I don't know if any of you has ever heard of the UAFA (Uniting American Families Act), a bill that was sponsored in the Senate by Sen. Patrick Leahy and in the House by Rep. Jerrold Nadler.
Americans in loving and committed relationships are often forced to make heartbreaking decisions to maintain their relationship. More often than not, these include having to leave the United States in order to be with the person they love.
There are American citizens forced to give up careers, leave behind aging parents and young adult children who rely on them and leave a community which benefits from their ongoing and active participation.
The Uniting American Families Act simply seeks to provide gay and lesbian U.S. citizens and permanent residents the right to sponsor their partners for immigration. It includes the same process and penalties as applied in heterosexual sponsorship applications.
Do we support equal Civil Rights for everyone at DPC? It will be interesting to hear what you think!
Thank you!
Diego
PS. If you want/need more information about UAFA, you can go to www.out4immigration.org and www.immigrationequality.org |
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07/06/2009 10:08:33 PM · #2 |
| Another reason I'm glad to be Canadian. |
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07/06/2009 10:11:16 PM · #3 |
| how can anyone not appreciate the beauty of women??? :P |
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07/06/2009 10:11:40 PM · #4 |
| I think in 30 years, everyone will be looking back at this time, wondering why there was so much resistance to gay rights. I also think it is amazing that in the past 100+ years, after womens suffrage, after the civil rights movement, that there is still a resistance to equality for everyone. |
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07/06/2009 10:11:48 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by crayon:
how can anyone not appreciate the beauty of women??? :P |
especially two of them together.. :) |
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07/06/2009 10:16:24 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
I think in 30 years, everyone will be looking back at this time, wondering why there was so much resistance to gay rights. I also think it is amazing that in the past 100+ years, after womens suffrage, after the civil rights movement, that there is still a resistance to equality for everyone. |
I hope there will be a day when we can look back and wonder why the world was ever so discriminative. I dream of that day.
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Originally posted by crayon:
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how can anyone not appreciate the beauty of women??? :P
especially two of them together.. :) |
Now, I can see that you are just trying to be humorous - but keep in mind that lesbians are not here for straight male's entertainment - and some could take offense to your statement. |
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07/06/2009 10:16:24 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Originally posted by crayon:
how can anyone not appreciate the beauty of women??? :P |
especially two of them together.. :) |
alone, or not, they are still beautiful :)
Message edited by author 2009-07-06 22:17:16. |
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07/06/2009 10:20:13 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by moriadelacroix:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
especially two of them together.. :) |
Now, I can see that you are just trying to be humorous - but keep in mind that lesbians are not here for straight male's entertainment - and some could take offense to your statement. |
That's fair enough. It was an attempt at humor, didn't mean to offend anyone. :) |
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07/06/2009 10:23:24 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Originally posted by moriadelacroix:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
especially two of them together.. :) |
Now, I can see that you are just trying to be humorous - but keep in mind that lesbians are not here for straight male's entertainment - and some could take offense to your statement. |
That's fair enough. It was an attempt at humor, didn't mean to offend anyone. :) |
You didn't offend me - being a lesbian myself (and sometimes a bit of a pervert) - I laughed at your statement, and agreed with it! But I was just giving fair warning because I know many that would take offense. |
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07/06/2009 10:35:15 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by dcanossa:
I have just been wondering if people out of the gay community supports equality.
Do we support equal Civil Rights for everyone at DPC? It will be interesting to hear what you think!
Thank you!
Diego
PS. If you want/need more information about UAFA, you can go to www.out4immigration.org and www.immigrationequality.org |
As to the subject at hand, I am astonished at what gay/lesbian people have to endure. A gentlemen I work with, who is a good friend, is gay and has been with his partner now over 15 years. About five years ago, he had open heart surgery, and he had to deal with concerns that his partner may not be able to visit him if something went wrong, or there was an emergency. According to him, he was able to establish this with a document prior to the surgery, so that his partner would be admitted, but it still amazes me that they have to go out of their way for rights that we straight folk take for granted.
Another issue often overlooked with Gay marriage is the fact that pensions cannot carry over to partners. This is a huge one. Marital assets are passed when a spouse passes automatically, for gays/lesbians, a Will is needed. While it sucks that they have to go through the trouble of having a will, at least assets can still be passed. The real trouble for my friend, is that his partner has a well paying job and is the breadwinner of the two. If he were to pass on, my friend would not be entitled to his partner's pension. That to me is a real travesty, because there is nothing that they can do to rectify this. I feel this is the single biggest aspect of gay marriage that is often times glossed over, and as the baby boomer generation gets older, its going to become more of an issue...
Lastly, my final two cents, I totally support what these groups are working towards. |
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07/06/2009 11:02:47 PM · #11 |
As a gay man myself, I have frequently considered leaving the USA for more "friendly" grounds. However, I have found that I believe in the Constitution of the USA so much that I believe that equal civil rights will eventually be granted to ALL citizens. It has occurred in the past and I believe that it will come to pass in the future. I look forward to that day and will continue to fight for it passionately with my vote and voice.
I understand that even my immediate family has reservations about my "relevance" as an equal citizen. It is disheartening and oftentimes discouraging; but I will not give up until discrimination is outlawed completely or my rights are forever constitutionally limited and I am ostracized from my family. I sincerely hope that the latter doesn't occur.
I think I'm a pretty good person... I care for (and literally take care of) my family; I give to charity; I try to live by the Golden Rule (love thy neighbor as thyself); I believe in the goodness of others; and I attend religious services regularly. I am not promiscuous and I don't do drugs. I just want to be accepted for who/what I am and have the right to share my life with someone that I love (that includes inheritance, visitation rights, and legal acceptance from family members).
Thanks for this post - I hope it isn't ravaged by close-minded critics who sit upon pristine pedestals casting their "superior" judgment on those who don't adhere to their limited interpretations of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
EDIT: I am so glad to be accepted for my talent on DPC and not judged on personal criteria. This is a great place with a lot of different voices (most of whom I respect - even those who disagree with me frequently). I do believe that DPC is an open and accepting place for people with an interest in photography to communicate, share, and converse. And I'm thankful for it. :-)
I support what these two groups are spearheading.
Message edited by author 2009-07-06 23:16:12. |
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07/06/2009 11:10:34 PM · #12 |
Aww, SJ, why do you gotta be all that? :P
Someone wake me when this thread gets to 2665 posts...
Actually, it isn't a bad bill, although I'm a bit unsure how it can prevent anybody from declaring permanent partnership purely for immigration purposes (although I suppose we have heard of similar pretend marriages, at least on TV).
Message edited by author 2009-07-06 23:11:21. |
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07/06/2009 11:21:46 PM · #13 |
I sometimes wonder at why people frequently feel it necessary to politicize things here at DPC. I have come to believe that for some, certain aspects of their lives (I am not referring to being gay or not gay alone here), seem to seep in and take over the rest of their life activities until everything becomes part of that passion.
Since I am not one of these people, I sometimes do not understand why DPC has to address liberals, war, conservatives, and on and on... To me DPC is, amazingly enough, about photography; with a side order of friendship. I sometimes feel like we are being continually put to some sort of pass-fail test. Are we diverse enough, are we critical enough, are we accepting enough, are we liberal enough, are we conservative enough, are we this or that other thing that someone needs to be reassured that we are, or somehow we are not good enough.
At the same time, I also feel most strongly that another person's personal life is really none of my business.
So in the end, I do support equality. I do not feel it is my place to say who can marry whom. I'm still thrilled, after almost 36 years, that my wife settled for me. I do not fear a gay person educating my children. (I worry more about their friends getting them into drugs, and about large class size inhibiting learning.) I do not think Obama is Satan incarnate, nor do I feel that Bush is Hitler reborn.
I'll ease my way out of the room now, and try to figure out how to get a good picture of a flower by Sunday.
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07/06/2009 11:21:51 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Aww, SJ, why do you gotta be all that? :P
Someone wake me when this thread gets to 2665 posts...
Actually, it isn't a bad bill, although I'm a bit unsure how it can prevent anybody from declaring permanent partnership purely for immigration purposes (although I suppose we have heard of similar pretend marriages, at least on TV). |
Jason: I respect & admire you more than you'll ever know for your photographic talent.
I "gotta be all that" because the question was posed about whether or not these rights were supported by the DPC community - and I'm part of that community. So... I just voiced my honest opinion and experience. You know it's the DPC way... ;-)
I don't normally jump into these volatile topics - and I'm sure I'll regret doing so this time! ROLFMAO
Anyway, I can agree to disagree with my vehement brother, so I'm sure that I can do the same for anyone else out there. Discussion is good and I'm always willing to listen. |
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07/06/2009 11:25:44 PM · #15 |
Ya know... My mother always told me that my mouth was my biggest liability. I never believed her (but she still says it). HAHAHA
I was really just trying to lend my support to the OP's post. Take it with a grain of salt - I always do that with everyone else's comments. ;-)
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07/06/2009 11:27:38 PM · #16 |
| Jimmy hun, if anybody tries to beat up on you here they'll hafta go thru' me first (which, sadly, wouldn't be hard as I'm an old wimp, but the thought is there, at least!). |
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07/06/2009 11:37:11 PM · #17 |
In my opinion, complete acceptance/equality will never exist in our lifetime. The human animal is not that advanced. The greatest thing standing in the way is ignorance and that will prevail for many many years ahead. We can aspire toward something better but until we get a major mental upgrade, we're gonna plod along cloaking it as best we can. It will fester in the background until we purge it from ourselves. We're just not there yet.
Maybe in 1000 years we may be getting closer, but until then, gays are the targets of the day. It really sucks but it will pass. It always does but then what will be next?? I'm sure sure we can all look at our own selves and check our list as it exists in all of us for certain. We are learning to conceal that list but its still there. Maybe one day it won't be there at all. That will be a great moment for humanity. Hope we make it.
Jimmy, we gotta hike again some time. |
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07/06/2009 11:49:54 PM · #18 |
Thank you my Canadian brothers and sisters (and I mean that in the purest "friend" sense)... ;-)
I can't wait to do spend time with y'all again! [BIG SMILE]
Message edited by author 2009-07-06 23:52:41. |
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07/06/2009 11:57:51 PM · #19 |
I don't care about gays, I believe in "out only" mentality for regular, default creation (of men)... I don't mind who does what as long as I don't know, because easy to visualize things and get sick... it's easy to get sick if you are not agreeing with it.
Equality? I don't know what exactly it means. I don't even know what equality of human being, if such a thing exist at all even between any two people in this world... so, talking for larger group to another "being equal", I really don't think so... it just can't be. Not mentally not physically (laws and such included)
What I am kind of disagree is that minority groups like gays want to be noticed by others A LOT... like, I really put them down or something. Again, I don't care, but if you do come out of your closet and let me know who you are with a megaphone into my ear, I get irritated. I don't go around yelling "HEY, LOOK AT ME... I AM STRAIT... I WANT THE SAME NOTICABLE THINGS GAYS ARE GETTING" and wave flags around.
If some of you think that two men or two women getting married is ok, it's like asking to do more for others... Such as having relationships with more than one person and mixed sex... etc.
"Civil unity" between two men or two women I think is the best... without taking the greater meaning out of it totally, and yes I am talking about the rule of God... which opens up another "can of worm" for another group that also yells into my ear from time to time.
I guess until someone invents a "thought reading" machine, we will always put some kind of a mask to our faces, for all grops. No one will ever know who feels what excatly.
My two cents |
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07/07/2009 12:09:35 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by crayon:
how can anyone not appreciate the beauty of women??? :P |
I tried and my wife found out. Lost an eye now i can only appreciate it half.
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07/07/2009 12:11:23 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by SJCarter:
Jason: I respect & admire you more than you'll ever know for your photographic talent.
I "gotta be all that" because the question was posed about whether or not these rights were supported by the DPC community - and I'm part of that community. So... I just voiced my honest opinion and experience. You know it's the DPC way... ;-)
I don't normally jump into these volatile topics - and I'm sure I'll regret doing so this time! ROLFMAO
Anyway, I can agree to disagree with my vehement brother, so I'm sure that I can do the same for anyone else out there. Discussion is good and I'm always willing to listen. |
I thought your post was great. You stated who you were and where you were coming from. Makes for a good argument. But at the end you just had to take a jab at your opposition with small words like "ravaged" and "close-minded" and "pristine pedestals" and "limited". It diminished the power of your post. I was just making the friendly reminder to keep to the high road.
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07/07/2009 12:17:50 AM · #22 |
I agree with Ivo, I'm not as wordy but it does suck that things are the way they are and will most likely continue for some time yet...
I do have a few friends that are gay (male and female) one of which is SJCarter which I also feel fortunate to have met in person and call a good friend. Im not going to get in to some debate on my own personal opinion but I just dont get what the big deal is that some people have with gay people...
-dave
PS Ivo, Jimmy don't you dare go for a hike with out me lol |
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07/07/2009 12:18:10 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I thought your post was great. You stated who you were and where you were coming from. Makes for a good argument. But at the end you just had to take a jab at your opposition with small words like "ravaged" and "close-minded" and "pristine pedestals" and "limited". It diminished the power of your post. I was just making the friendly reminder to keep to the high road. |
A beautiful example of a red herring. |
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07/07/2009 12:24:09 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
I don't care about gays, I believe in "out only" mentality for regular, default creation (of men)... I don't mind who does what as long as I don't know, because easy to visualize things and get sick... it's easy to get sick if you are not agreeing with it.
Equality? I don't know what exactly it means. I don't even know what equality of human being, if such a thing exist at all even between any two people in this world... so, talking for larger group to another "being equal", I really don't think so... it just can't be. Not mentally not physically (laws and such included)
What I am kind of disagree is that minority groups like gays want to be noticed by others A LOT... like, I really put them down or something. Again, I don't care, but if you do come out of your closet and let me know who you are with a megaphone into my ear, I get irritated. I don't go around yelling "HEY, LOOK AT ME... I AM STRAIT... I WANT THE SAME NOTICABLE THINGS GAYS ARE GETTING" and wave flags around.
If some of you think that two men or two women getting married is ok, it's like asking to do more for others... Such as having relationships with more than one person and mixed sex... etc.
"Civil unity" between two men or two women I think is the best... without taking the greater meaning out of it totally, and yes I am talking about the rule of God... which opens up another "can of worm" for another group that also yells into my ear from time to time.
I guess until someone invents a "thought reading" machine, we will always put some kind of a mask to our faces, for all grops. No one will ever know who feels what excatly.
My two cents |
As far as equality, I don't think such a thing exists either. People judge, and they judge frequently, many times without ever knowing that they did. Judgment can come to one without them ever noticing it.
As far as minority groups wanting to be noticed, well, I think its their plight that they want to be noticed. Blacks didn't march and protest in the 1960's simply because they wanted to be noticed. They were championing for a cause, and that cause was Civil Rights. Some of the same Civil rights that many gay/lesbian people are being denied today. So when you see these people marching, it is not necessarily because they want to be noticed, but its because they want their cause to be noticed.
I don't think its fair to equate gay marriage to polygamy because marriage is a bond between two people. If gay/lesbian couples were able to get married, it would still remain a contract between two people.
You were absolutely right about that fact that no one will ever know how it feels to be someone else. I will never know how it feels to be black in America, so I will never experience the hidden discrimination that they face. Its the same thing in this situation, but I can tell you that I still can see the injustice through the struggles of my friends who are gay/lesbian and what they endured.
edited 3 times for spelling errors, its late and I'm tired
Message edited by author 2009-07-07 00:28:33. |
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07/07/2009 01:35:35 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by moriadelacroix:
\
Now, I can see that you are just trying to be humorous - but keep in mind that lesbians are not here for straight male's entertainment - and some could take offense to your statement. |
I'm quite sure there is somebody who will take offense to anything I say or do. If I try to tailor my life to not offend anyone, it won't be much of a life. Some time people in non-standard relationships bring offensive behavior upon themselves. I remember several times in the 80's being passed by a auto with two females inside kissing to the exclusion of much else, including driving the car. Periodically they would turn around and give me the finger. I'm sure this endeared these people to many of the males who experienced this behavior. I just smiled and gave them a little more following distance in case they did something stupid. I didn't go all "Road rage" on them because I was raised to understand that when you became an adult you would be subjected to various types of offensive behavior. The better you are able to ignore it, the less you find yourself in violent or unpleasant situations. People need to understand that they have NO RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED.
And as to your "not for straight male entertainment" comment, if lesbians hold forth certain activity in public places, they will certainly become entertainment for straight males. Biological concerns mandate this.
Message edited by author 2009-07-07 02:06:29. |
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