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06/12/2009 09:11:37 AM · #276 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
Dear John,
If you are lurking about and reading this thread, then I hope you will read this note too. You know I'm one of your biggest fans and just love your phenomenal work! If you pulled your profile to pout about your DQ, then I understand. Truly, I do! However, please know that you punish not the SC for what you may feel is a questionable and perhaps unreasonable decision, but rather all of your fans instead. We don't always agree with the SC, but sometimes we have to learn to get happy in the same shoes in which we are unhappy and still enjoy the DPC experience and the friends we've made.
Perhaps, after some time has passed and your thoughts have cooled, you will miss us as much as we miss your beautiful photos. After all, who else will help me convince the irascible  Yanko about the true meaning of Art?!
I hope you recovered well from your surgery.
-M |
Well said, hihosilver.
I'll add that, IMO, the SC don't mean anything personal by the DQ. They are just doing their job, for free, to work to make this site more fun for everyone. You and I, and many others, don't agree with their decision, and it's OK to be pissed off about it. Hey, we're artists, getting pissed off is what we do best! But keep in mind it's nothing personal, just a bump in the road and nobody is worse off for it. I hope you can return after some cool-off time.
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06/12/2009 09:23:09 AM · #277 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
IMO the *purpose* of the rule about having someone push the shutter is basically to allow an assistant to function as a remote shutter-release for those of us who don't have one (or a camera which supports one). Anything the second person does other than pressing the shutter (such as aiming the camera) violates the rule, regardless of any degree of "direction" given. |
How remarkably sensible :-)
R. |
And if that is the rule, maybe that is what the rules should say? then it would be clear and there would be no discussion.
Current rules say set up, which can be defined very broad. Handing someone a camera, asking them to take a picture of you, and then posing can be considered a set up.
Furthermore, as someone else stated, what about the images where someone goes to a workshop and has a pro: set up the lighting, set up their camera, hire/select a model, dress and style the model, tell the model how to pose, tell the photographer what angles to shoot, what lens to use, and all the "DPC photographer" does is point the camera where told, push the button and post the image here saying look how great I am when in reality they are maybe 10% responsible for the image. That is perfectly legal, but asking someone to take a hospital bed snap shot off a cell phone camera in a situation where composition of the image has little to no bearing on the overall quality of the submission for you when you do not have a tripod and can't get out of bed is not legal? Bull$#!#! |
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06/12/2009 09:24:43 AM · #278 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
And I think it really sucks that SC never even asked him any questions before throwing it out. That sucks. |
Emhasis added ...
Originally posted by karmat:
And while we didn't have all the details, subsequent correspondence with him (that you seem to want to ignore) didn't reveal anything new to us that would have altered the decision before we knew it. |
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Yes or no, was the DQ given before any questions were asked of him?
That's the point.
Saying after you made you decision you got more evidence and did not change your mind is all good, but typically when playing judge a person should get all the info before making a judgement. |
From my perspective, it would seem that there existed sufficient evidence to justify the DQ from the onset and that subsequent interactions confirmed that. It could be that you are confusing "Evidence" which is germane to the issue at hand with "Situational Factors" which could be used to reduce penalties meted out... they are not the same.
Ray |
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06/12/2009 09:47:40 AM · #279 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Current rules say set up, which can be defined very broad. ... |
Ummm...you tried this argument before, and you keep leaving out the rest of the rule statement.
Challenge Rules
"Your submission must be: taken and post-processed by you. Someone else may press the shutter button if you set up the shot and the camera settings." |
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06/12/2009 09:50:15 AM · #280 |
Bah! Should have left this thread alone after Skip's post earlier this morning.
Have fun going round-and-round y'all! :-) L8R. |
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06/12/2009 10:46:36 AM · #281 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Bull$#!#! |
really? is this really how you feel? how on earth could i have missed it after all of these posts? i'm such a ninny. |
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06/12/2009 11:18:52 AM · #282 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Bull$#!#! |
.....i'm such a ninny. |
:-0 WTF is a ninny?
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06/12/2009 11:19:53 AM · #283 |
| Like a nincumpoop? Hahaha |
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06/12/2009 11:24:03 AM · #284 |
Originally posted by Skip:
Life is all about what you can get away with.
It comes down to how you handle getting caught.
You either blame it on those that called you out.
Or you accept it and take your punishment.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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I'd like to think that life isn't about what you can get away with, but making ethical choices, or at least trying to, in the first place and owning up to poor decisions and mistakes and accepting the consequences.
Too many people live their lives seeing what they can get away with and too many others suffer for it.
Look at the fallout from people trying to see what they could get away with in the pursuit of money. Can you say "Sub Prime Mortgage"?
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06/12/2009 12:07:43 PM · #285 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Ok, I've read through the thread and I still feel like Scalvert has not used enough analogies to make it clear to me, but let me try one - Let's say I train my dog to take photos of me...
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ROFL |
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06/12/2009 12:08:31 PM · #286 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
And I think it really sucks that SC never even asked him any questions before throwing it out. That sucks. |
Emhasis added ...
Originally posted by karmat:
And while we didn't have all the details, subsequent correspondence with him (that you seem to want to ignore) didn't reveal anything new to us that would have altered the decision before we knew it. |
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Yes or no, was the DQ given before any questions were asked of him?
That's the point.
Saying after you made you decision you got more evidence and did not change your mind is all good, but typically when playing judge a person should get all the info before making a judgement. |
You keep asking "yes or no" but when you are asked the same thing about a question then you skirt around the issue.. I am still waiting for a yes or no on some of the things I asked you. |
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06/12/2009 12:13:58 PM · #287 |
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06/12/2009 12:14:07 PM · #288 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Ok, I've read through the thread and I still feel like Scalvert has not used enough analogies to make it clear to me, but let me try one - Let's say I train my dog to take photos of me...
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Then it would be your dogs photo. You would get rich from the fact that you have a dog trained to take photos. You could go on tour across the country, be on Letterman, Conans show and probably even Jay Lenos new show. You would get to meet Kelly and Regis. Ellen loves animals you could be on that show too. Everybody at DPC would think you are the coolest thing since the PB&J sandwich. They'd forget all about Joey Lawrence.
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06/12/2009 01:51:06 PM · #289 |
Originally posted by Skip:
Life is all about what you can get away with.
It comes down to how you handle getting caught.
You either blame it on those that called you out.
Or you accept it and take your punishment.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. |
Where is the "Add to my favorite Philosopher" link?
edit to add: RE:  NstiG8tr's post: LOL - My dog is sexier than JL also. ;-)
Message edited by author 2009-06-12 13:53:20. |
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06/12/2009 02:27:53 PM · #290 |
Originally posted by Simms:
You keep asking "yes or no" but when you are asked the same thing about a question then you skirt around the issue.. I am still waiting for a yes or no on some of the things I asked you. |
First, I asked the same question twice, and I don't think I got an answer (but I know what it is).
Second,
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Simms:
You didnt answer the question. |
Sorry, I would not be pissed because I'm not stupid enough to think he cooks every meal at each place he owns or is listed as executive chef. |
OK, and now point number 2....
come on, just a little bit more... who cooked the meal? Gordon Ramsey or the chef who actually put the ingredients together....
Answer that and I will let you out of that corner you are backed into. |
Who cooked the meal or who created the meal?
Gordon created the meal. The chef in the kitchen that day followed directions and cooked it. A photographer creates art, not follows others direction to re-create others art.
And no I was not in a corner, I just have a life and have other things to do sometimes. |
I answered both your questions. No I would not be pissed. Yes, the chef that day cooked Gordon's dish.
Did I miss any others? I just ignored the if I called my cousin and asked to take a photo type questions because I didn't think they needed an answer, but in all those cases, I'd vote to DQ. |
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06/12/2009 02:34:09 PM · #291 |
Originally posted by spaz:
Too many people live their lives seeing what they can get away with and too many others suffer for it.
Originally posted by skip:
Life is all about what you can get away with. |
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i agree. i was being a bit smart-alecky. i think these problems stem from a failure to make sentences to fit their crimes. when 'justice' is random and inconsistent, people are more willing to roll the dice because their perceived gain far outstrips their potential losses, regardless of the consequences to others.
and when you start excusing bad behavior by blaming the circumstance and the system, when you make the perpetrator the victim, you simply invite more abuse.
Originally posted by art:
Where is the "Add to my favorite Philosopher" link? |
right next to the [free beer] link ;-) |
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06/12/2009 02:48:42 PM · #292 |
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by spaz:
Too many people live their lives seeing what they can get away with and too many others suffer for it.
Originally posted by skip:
Life is all about what you can get away with. |
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i agree. i was being a bit smart-alecky. i think these problems stem from a failure to make sentences to fit their crimes. when 'justice' is random and inconsistent, people are more willing to roll the dice because their perceived gain far outstrips their potential losses, regardless of the consequences to others.
and when you start excusing bad behavior by blaming the circumstance and the system, when you make the perpetrator the victim, you simply invite more abuse.
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In most cases, I don't think that criminal sentences really figure into the decision to take the wrong path. Ultimately, those decisions are made based on a person's morality and situation in life. That's not meant as an excuse, just an observation.
The death penalty is about as harsh a punishment as can be legally doled out, yet it's not a deterrent to murder. |
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06/12/2009 03:05:33 PM · #293 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
SC are only human, |
I've been told they are actually terminators. I've not met one in person so I can't say for sure. But if one stops by me house and the dog barks that certain way..... watch out for a laser blast sucker! |
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06/12/2009 05:16:40 PM · #294 |
Little devils advocate here:
In regards to someone using the cooking recipe analogy as an example...
there is a recent challenge image where post challenge the description said that the photographer found the image done by someone else, and then mimiced it...based off your example, should they be dq'd for following someone elses "recipe" for the image? |
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06/12/2009 05:36:17 PM · #295 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Current rules say set up, which can be defined very broad. ... |
Ummm...you tried this argument before, and you keep leaving out the rest of the rule statement.
Challenge Rules
"Your submission must be: taken and post-processed by you. Someone else may press the shutter button if you set up the shot and the camera settings." |
sorry for being so picky. His arguement was:
how do you set up a self portrait if camera is all automatic. The only setting require is to pose, which he did.
About looking through viewfinder, how do you look through viewfinder and see yourself in front of you for self portrait. I just want to know how it is even possible in this case.
So someone else did press button as rules might have required, he did his bit by posing.
Anyway i am off to do other chores, but things are not so simple in this case.
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06/12/2009 05:43:33 PM · #296 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Current rules say set up, which can be defined very broad. ... |
Ummm...you tried this argument before, and you keep leaving out the rest of the rule statement.
Challenge Rules
"Your submission must be: taken and post-processed by you. Someone else may press the shutter button if you set up the shot and the camera settings." |
sorry for being so picky. His arguement was:
how do you set up a self portrait if camera is all automatic. The only setting require is to pose, which he did.
About looking through viewfinder, how do you look through viewfinder and see yourself in front of you for self portrait. I just want to know how it is even possible in this case.
So someone else did press button as rules might have required, he did his bit by posing.
Anyway i am off to do other chores, but things are not so simple in this case. |
OK, so any phtoo of me taken in the past where I have said to someone can you take my photo using this - is actually a self-portrait??
wrong!! |
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06/12/2009 05:45:21 PM · #297 |
| Can't this stop already? It has been going nowhere for quite some time now. Just dropping it and moving on would be healthier. |
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06/12/2009 05:49:57 PM · #298 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Current rules say set up, which can be defined very broad. ... |
Ummm...you tried this argument before, and you keep leaving out the rest of the rule statement.
Challenge Rules
"Your submission must be: taken and post-processed by you. Someone else may press the shutter button if you set up the shot and the camera settings." |
sorry for being so picky. His arguement was:
how do you set up a self portrait if camera is all automatic. The only setting require is to pose, which he did.
About looking through viewfinder, how do you look through viewfinder and see yourself in front of you for self portrait. I just want to know how it is even possible in this case.
So someone else did press button as rules might have required, he did his bit by posing.
Anyway i am off to do other chores, but things are not so simple in this case. |
OK, so any phtoo of me taken in the past where I have said to someone can you take my photo using this - is actually a self-portrait??
wrong!! |
so when you are taking selfportrait and require someone to press shutter button what do you do cling on to camera because if you give to other person you could not call it self portrait any more??
Don't be rigid, you know things are based on situation.
I think if you go through portrait challenges you would encounter entries where someone else pressed shutter button.
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06/12/2009 05:52:51 PM · #299 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
About looking through viewfinder, how do you look through viewfinder and see yourself in front of you for self portrait. I just want to know how it is even possible in this case. |
You set up your camera on a tripod and adjust the zoom, framing and focus according to the position you will assume when posing, then re-position yourself and trigger the shutter with your remote or verbal command to your assistant. It's not that hard -- and you can always put a couple of pillows or a sack of potatoes in your place while setting up if you really can't visualize the place you'll occupy once posed ...
One of the advantages of the flip/twist LCD on some Canon cameras (like mine) is that you can actually turn the LCD completey around so you can view it from in front of the lens -- you can confirm the framing before the exposure; useful if you're shooting a self-portrait using the timer (no remote on this camera). |
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06/12/2009 06:06:38 PM · #300 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by zxaar:
About looking through viewfinder, how do you look through viewfinder and see yourself in front of you for self portrait. I just want to know how it is even possible in this case. |
You set up your camera on a tripod and adjust the zoom, framing and focus according to the position you will assume when posing, then re-position yourself and trigger the shutter with your remote or verbal command to your assistant. It's not that hard -- and you can always put a couple of pillows or a sack of potatoes in your place while setting up if you really can't visualize the place you'll occupy once posed ...
One of the advantages of the flip/twist LCD on some Canon cameras (like mine) is that you can actually turn the LCD completey around so you can view it from in front of the lens -- you can confirm the framing before the exposure; useful if you're shooting a self-portrait using the timer (no remote on this camera). |
on a fully automatic camera you can save time by just point and shoot.
From the start i understood because there is no tripod involved in this shoot, it would be hard to justify it. Because it seems in our minds setting up a shot is to put camera on tripod and ask someone to press button.
So when someone thinks of setting up a shot we immediately think of setting up as on a tripod or something.
The reason i am arguing in his favour is 1. rules specifically do not require this. So someone can hold camera and shoot.
Second given his situation setting up on tripod etc was not possible.
i understand rule that someone else could press button is to help a shot. Or to help in situation in which it is not possible for photographer to take shot himself.
this is what i think.
Decision is made and you guys are not going to change it. Running around in circles is waste of time. So i give it a rest now. |
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