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05/27/2009 12:41:50 PM · #1 |
In response to the thread from  Teafran....
How many people here do NOT have any formal training at all, and/or were even discouraged from the love of photography since it's a frivolous activity that requires expensive equipment and has virtually no future as a paid vocation unless you're the best of the best and have a side of luck to go with talent?
My mother was an amateur with a passion and an eye, but she certainly had no aspirations past being the family historian to preserve our slices of family life.
My father certainly made it clear that he wasn't interested in helping me to rifle through his checkbook for a sideline in school with no future, so I had to buy my own first camera. I really didn't know much, and though I had enthusiasm, it really wasn't until I got here that I really learned much of anything about how to develop what inate talent I may have.......which means I really didn't do squat outside of taking a load of snapshots with the occasional luckshot for probably the better part of three decades.
I have to say that DpChallenge has been an amazing place for me, and I'm sure others who had virtually no hope of being able to develop their skills in the conventional manner such as formal education.
I'm still painfully aware of my limitations, but I work hard at trying to continue to learn, and I pretty much always find someone here who will help me with virtually any idea, problem, or technique I want to work through.
So.....those of you who are "Backyard/Amchair Artists", let's hear your stories, too!
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05/27/2009 01:16:26 PM · #2 |
I don't recall my parents ever actively encouraging or discouraging it. They were supportive, but it didn't interest them. As a teen, I had a darkroom in the corner of my dads basement workshop.
My big issue now with shying away from portrait photography is that my dad had no patience for it. "Hurry up and take the picture already!" Somehow in the back of my head, I always think the subject is going to be impatient withe me as I fiddle with lighting and settings.
I did get some great encouragement the other day when my sister in law remarked on Facebook that she really liked my people photography. It's also a nice ego stroke when I take someone's picture and they like it enough that they then use it as their avatar. |
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05/27/2009 02:52:49 PM · #3 |
I took a photography class in HS 25+ years ago, so started out in 35mm film SLR. Interest drifted away because of other things going on in life in general. I kind of got back into photography when I upgraded my computer and bought a point and shoot in '06. I hated going through the menus on a P&S and spent the $$$ on a DSLR (Nikon D60) in '08, which was more familiar to me (from the 35mm SLR days). Then upgraded to a D300 in latter '08, but still shoot with the D60 most of the time because it's small and light.
Photography is just a hobby to have an outside interest outside of work. I don't do much post processing, just what iPhoto allows on my MacBook. So bottom line is I'm just a hobbyist, do it for fun. I surfed DPC for a few months before becoming a paying member. Perusing the site helps me learn composition, trying to learn more about lighting, etc. I find inspiration looking through the images. It's been fun reading the threads here. Some very opinionated people, some very "serious" people here...
No formal arts education. Just a self learner.
Message edited by author 2009-05-27 15:10:05. |
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05/27/2009 04:42:40 PM · #4 |
Photography was a "first love" for me starting when I was about 10. My parents soon discovered that they were not in a position to support that habit, and steered me away from photography and directed me to art instead.
I always liked art, but never loved it. After I was out on my own, the first thing I spent money on was a nice Canon AE-1 program kit. Only just got rid of it a few years ago.
My Mom remarked recently that she regretted the decision they made. She said she always wonders where I would be now (in relation to photography)if they had done what they could to encourage me in that.
No formal training, just the love of photography and graphics, and the School of Hard Knocks! |
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05/27/2009 07:05:50 PM · #5 |
| Growing up, my dad worked at Kodak. Back in Kodaks heyday employees had access to camera gear and darkrooms and I dont believe it cost employees a penny to use it all. But while my dad often had a camera around it was never anything serious enough to pass on to me. It wasnt until 7 years ago (when I was 30 or so) that I bought my first digital camera just before my boy was born. And I have only switched twice since then. As far as education - its been primarily DPC and the links found from here (plus alot of practice). Nothing formal. |
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05/27/2009 07:27:18 PM · #6 |
No formal training at all, but I have always been very creative - in my younger days I just loved drawing, painting, wood turning, wood carving, pottery anything that I could do to express myself really. My wife and I purchased a film camera just before our honeymoon and we built a darkroom around it with a Jobo enlarger that was too big for our attic LOL - It didn't last long as a hobby due to the mess of the chemicals and getting in and out of the darkroom. I then purchased my first digital camera oh about 18 months ago now and have mainly learned from my good friend MAK, lots and lots and lots of reading and ofc DPC
The one thing I find to ring true about those "educated / trained" more often than not is that they can be quite set in their beliefs and ways and can be less inclined to look outside the box ;) Not sure if that is the experience of others in our category but it's definitely something I have noticed throughout my life in many different ways (not just photography or DPC for that matter).
Photography has now become a HUGE part of my life, I don't go a day without taking a shot and I am still constantly reading and learning.
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05/27/2009 08:33:02 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
The one thing I find to ring true about those "educated / trained" more often than not is that they can be quite set in their beliefs and ways and can be less inclined to look outside the box ;) Not sure if that is the experience of others in our category but it's definitely something I have noticed throughout my life in many different ways (not just photography or DPC for that matter). |
Interesting comment. On the other hand, you can't look outside the box if you don't know where it is. In my experience it is the undereducated who are at least the most dogmatic/judgemental of others, the least likely to try new things (they don't know what they are). Each kernel of information makes the next one that much easier to pick up. The more you know, the faster you can learn more.
That being said, I am a big proponent (& a living example) of the benefits of self-directed eduction & the school of hard knocks!
Message edited by author 2009-05-27 20:41:58. |
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05/27/2009 08:53:58 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Mark-A:
The one thing I find to ring true about those "educated / trained" more often than not is that they can be quite set in their beliefs and ways and can be less inclined to look outside the box ;) Not sure if that is the experience of others in our category but it's definitely something I have noticed throughout my life in many different ways (not just photography or DPC for that matter). |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Interesting comment. On the other hand, you can't look outside the box if you don't know where it is. In my experience it is the undereducated who are at least the most dogmatic/judgemental of others, the least likely to try new things (they don't know what they are). Each kernel of information makes the next one that much easier to pick up. The more you know, the faster you can learn more. |
I pretty much have to agree with Mark. I am in constant contact, through two different camera clubs, with experts and educated photographers who seem so rigid and set in their ways. One of the judges in our last competition was someone whom I heard state emphatically that only the full frame 8x12 aspect ratio, and only in film is the correct way to do "Real" photography.
I've also picked up tricks and techniques being here that have afforded me an almost unfair edge over people who have a very narrow spectrum of view because they haven't gotten around to playing, and learning, from many different people with different methods & styles. On a number of occasions I have heard chapter and verse spouted during seminars and classes in these clubs where it is abundantly apparent that often the most basic of ideas, which have many types of interpretations, are only acceptable within certain parameters. And the stuff we bandy about as typical, is essentially unused in some cases.
I completely blew away everyone in the competition for the year with points accumulation with low-6 stuff from here....it was actually kind of an experiment to give me perspective, and it just proved to me that the skills and techniques available to learn from here are incredible. And if you don't learn to grow and think on kyour feet while you're here, it's your own fault.
I don't on any level consider myself much more than a decent, competent photographer and post-processor, and I have enough perspective from being around people here who are quite good that it has enabled me to be comfortable with the way the skills that I have are developing and growing.
I have to laugh at the concept that the uneducated don't know what the new things are to try. I guarantee that the average DPC person who has been here more than about six months that has genuinely put forth the effort knows more about different ways to do things than most local trained experts. They may not be able to apply the techniques due to lack of practice, equipment, or ability, but the whole concept of not learning something because they don't know about it certainly doesn't apply here at DPC. You'd have to try pretty hard to NOT be exposed to a myriad of different things here.
I'm out of the box most of the time BECAUSE I don't know where it is.
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05/27/2009 09:21:01 PM · #9 |
Yeah, but do you know you're out of the box? "D Jeb you are one of the fastest-growing photogs on this site, I am very impressed with your work, your can-do attitude, & by the helping hand of friendship you are always ready to offer. I admire you greatly, & that's the truth. I have always had a hard time w/photography. I still do. I don't like putting a frame around stuff, deciding on camera angle, etc, it seems like I am always making the wrong choices. But you know it's addictive. I can't stop trying. My favorite way of learning is to try to follow the example of others, which is why I have a membership here.
So, head up, tail up, keep on clickin'!
[edit to clarify]
Message edited by author 2009-05-27 21:22:22. |
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05/27/2009 09:53:54 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Yeah, but do you know you're out of the box? "D |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Jeb you are one of the fastest-growing photogs on this site, I am very impressed with your work, your can-do attitude, & by the helping hand of friendship you are always ready to offer. I admire you greatly, & that's the truth. I have always had a hard time w/photography. I still do. I don't like putting a frame around stuff, deciding on camera angle, etc, it seems like I am always making the wrong choices. But you know it's addictive. I can't stop trying. My favorite way of learning is to try to follow the example of others, which is why I have a membership here.
So, head up, tail up, keep on clickin'!
[edit to clarify] |
Holy Toledo!
You're going to make me blush!
I used to worry so much about what was the "right" way to do this or that, and the more I learned, the more important it seemed to me to try to figure out what it is/was that makes it all worth while for me.....I more feel that the right way is pretty darn subjective simply because it depends on what you want and how you go about it.
Some things are pretty much etched in stone, like how lighting is done for most portrait work, but there's even various schools of thought for the basics.
Yeah, it is helpful to have a lot of the basics, and like you say, it is sometimes easier to break the rules if you know exactly what they are, but by the same token, I've seen people do amazing things because it never occurred to them that it was contrary to convention.
That said, it's because of the knowledge and experience that I've gained here that I want to pursue some formal training, specifically in Photoshop because I now, having blundered around with my CS2 for about two years, have a much better grasp on what I do NOT know! LOL!!!
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05/28/2009 06:51:42 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
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I pulled up the image and read the comments... Wow, it shows the polarization of this site. I like your outside the box thinking...
On a future Challenge, if there are "extra rules", it should be the NikonJeb rule: Challenge the Challenge. :)
Drive on sir, keep stirring the pot. |
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05/28/2009 07:22:18 AM · #12 |
I haven't had any formal training, I got my D40X to try to take one or two decent shots with while I studied in Italy last year. I used to take that thing everywhere with me, there are not many parts of Siena or Ferrara I don't have badly composed snaps of! I then began to discover the online world of photography and eventually DPC and realised what was possible with the kit I had. Thanks to great criticism and persistence I have started to develop some semblance of style and I upgraded my kit when I started being offered paid work.
I also have always been someone who needs to create - I always used to be good at art at school and I used to make loads of stuff as a child, but then I had no outlet for many years until I discovered photography and photoshop. I can't wait until my finals exams are over so I can start shooting properly again! |
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05/28/2009 08:58:15 AM · #13 |
This is all pretty interesting. It reminds me that winning virtual ribbons is not what it's all about. It's easy to get frustrated, however, when one is constantly being told by low votes that ones efforts are garbage. I received a PM just last night from a member who says their interests lie outside the usual high scoring stuff and they are getting frustrated. With that in mind, here are other ways to get something out of DPC:
-Play in the (inappropriately named) side challenges. Great learning experiences, and you can get some feedback without low votes.
-Comment heavily when voting. Especially on the pics you give 4's and 5's to. By making yourself figure out why you do or don't like a shot, you will come away with lessons you can apply to your own photography. Believe it or not, most others will appreciate the feedback as to why their masterpiece is bombing.
-Play games with your entries. I try to predict what the in-challenge critiques will be. As the comments come in, it's like a game of bingo. It also develops your own critical eye for your own shots.
-Pick someone whose work you like, and go through their portfolio. Figure out how they do things and PM them if you want to know more. Most people here are happy to share their tricks.
-Enter a challenge trying to appeal to a narrow group. (For instance, try abstract, street photography, humor, weird stuff) You can tell from who comments if you hit your mark. For example, this recent entry of mine was a success, regardless of the sub-5 score. It scored as anticipated and hit the desired target audience:
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05/28/2009 09:25:03 AM · #14 |
Yo_Spiff,
Good advice. I do make comments when I think I have something worthwhile to say...
By the way, I like your Topaz stuff.
You the man, I said it before, I'll say it again, you're one of the nicest people on the site.
Sorry Jeb, didn't mean to hijack your thread. You're a good guy too...
Message edited by author 2009-05-29 11:44:49. |
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05/28/2009 09:40:09 AM · #15 |
| I'm gonna have to do something about that rep. |
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05/28/2009 10:06:53 AM · #16 |
I use "do the opposite rule".
5 years ago I wanted to by an SLR and I told by girlfriend about it. She said "why? you not going to use it much. you probably won't even carry it with you. it'll just sit home. just waster of money". I thought hm.... I don't think you are right and went I bought one. Been shooting ever since and not planning on stopping.
1 year ago I thought, I want to play guitar... I got the similar story "why?? you not really going to ...... blah blah blah". Here I knew EXACTLY what to do. I got a guitar the next day and still play almost every day.
Next week I'll see what people think of base jumping.... |
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05/28/2009 10:42:18 AM · #17 |
In Childhood I have never thought of photography as it was not affordable and even I didn't have any exposure to photography. But I loved art, I could paint and sketch well. When I took engineering my maternal uncle told me that why are you going for engineering? you should join arts college.
After completing my college I started working in one IT company and one of my colleague was good photographer and then my love photography started, but I didn't have enough money to buy good Camera. But now I wanted to experiment with photography and starve to get camera.
3 years back I bought my first camera (Fujifilm S5200) and start experimenting with it. And I got many positive feedback from friends and I they encouraged me to go about it and now photography is my passion and I am seriously thinking about go professional in it. 1 year back I bought my first SLR (Nikon D60) and experimenting with it.
If possible please go to my portfolio and give me your comment and suggestion to improve.
Thank you,
Ankur |
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