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02/27/2009 11:23:51 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by L2:
In any event, none of us have direct knowledge of all the financial details so it's really just speculation anyway. |
 L2 some of your earlier posts made me think you have a degree in estate law and were applying it (hypothetically) to Ms. Leibovitz' situation. I'm glad you now note that this is really spectulation.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If I hear "Poor Annie" again, I'm gonna SCREAM!!!!
I'd swap places with her in a heartbeat.
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Well,  NikonJeb The lady is supremely talented. While your work here is certainly very good, are you sure you want to make that statement?
Message edited by author 2009-02-27 23:31:08.
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02/28/2009 12:37:52 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by L2:
In any event, none of us have direct knowledge of all the financial details so it's really just speculation anyway. |
L2 some of your earlier posts made me think you have a degree in estate law and were applying it (hypothetically) to Ms. Leibovitz' situation. I'm glad you now note that this is really spectulation. |
Not a degree in estate law; in real life I'm a financial analyst with a tertiary interest in and exposure to estate and tax planning. I see, work with, and assist in these matters on a routine basis. Each individual's situation is very different, and while there are rules of thumb regarding such areas it would be irresponsible to say one particular financial strategy works exactly the same for any particular subset of a population. With multiple estates of the depth and breadth that Liebovitz reportedly is involved in, I'd expect it would take an entire team of accountants and lawyers to arrive at the best conclusion for her.
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The planner I use handles trusts and estates as a specialty, and is one of the better people in California on this particular area of the law. You can hold whatever opinions you like but do not suffer under the illusion that you are right on this point of the law, because if you do you will end up in jail. Land can not be passed down to heirs without paying taxes. Period. |
I can assure you I'm not going to jail and really, it's rather dramatic for anyone to assume so. The point I originally made (if you read again) was related to joint tenancy with rights of survivorship; those that pass outside of probate and inheritance law. |
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02/28/2009 02:20:15 AM · #53 |
I think your original line on this issue was
Originally posted by L2:
Inheritance taxes (if they apply in your state and/or the estate in question is large enough to be subject to them) are applied to all inheritors. The rate of tax is dependent on familial/ancestral relationship; children pay less than cousins, who pay less than friends, etc. Spouses may claim an exemption and thereby escape payment of inheritance tax. Co-owners with rights of survivorship are not inheritors; their rights of survivorship are passed on outside of probate.
With some foresight and estate planning, Sontag could have set up her properties to pass to Liebovitz without being subject to tax or largely avoiding most of it. That they weren't "married" would make it more difficult, but no less possible. |
At least in 2009, in America taxes at the upper end (any monies above 2 million dollars) are taxed at 46%, be it a gift or an inheritance, unless the money is echanged for something of equal value, you owe those taxes. The only way to pass outside probate is to use gift tax exemption, which doesn't go far on an estate of this size. At death if you have payed in 1% of the value of a property which is jointly owned and are willed the other 99%, you owe taxes on the 99%.
Your saying that "Spouses may claim an exemption and thereby escape payment of inheritance tax." Misses the primary point that a married couple is a single financial unit. They don't have to claim anything. There is no transfer of wealth.
This has gotten a bit specific for a photography web site, but your basic notion that Leibovitz was fiscally irresponsible and therefore deserves whatever misfortune reigns down on her, seems small hearted and wrong headed. In other word, to quote your second contribution to this conversation in response to Bear_Music, "That statement is complete crap" not a nice way to put it, but it has the advantage of brevity.
Message edited by author 2009-02-28 02:20:42. |
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02/28/2009 03:16:16 AM · #54 |
| Still at it? Lots of people are no good at money. Rembrandt, Mozart, family members... |
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02/28/2009 08:38:35 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Still at it? Lots of people are no good at money. Rembrandt, Mozart, family members... |
That's true, but this is a case of a modern era person with the availability and means to actually hire the proper personnel to manage an estate of the magnitude that hers encompasses.
It's basically negligent to NOT have finacial advisors in place if you have assetes at this level.
People like Mozart & Rembrandt are hardly comparable in this situation.
I'm not saying that I don't feel bad for her plight to a certain extent.....I don't wish any hardship on anyone, I just have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for someone whose troubles basically involve finacial juggling outside the normal scope.
It's not like she's being forced into indentured servitude......it's more of a case of having to put her shoulder into life.......you know, kind of like most of the rest of us out here.
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02/28/2009 08:41:41 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If I hear "Poor Annie" again, I'm gonna SCREAM!!!!
I'd swap places with her in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, NikonJeb The lady is supremely talented. While your work here is certainly very good, are you sure you want to make that statement? |
Don't be pedantic, you know that's not the context I was referring to in my statement.
I was referring to the financial distress part relative to her holdings.
Something that I have a lot more exposure to than you could possibly imagine, not that I feel that I have to justify it to you.
On *NO* level was I stating that I remotely thought I could fill her shoes as an artist.
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02/28/2009 10:31:25 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If I hear "Poor Annie" again, I'm gonna SCREAM!!!!
I'd swap places with her in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by sfalice:
Well, NikonJeb The lady is supremely talented. While your work here is certainly very good, are you sure you want to make that statement? |
Don't be pedantic, you know that's not the context I was referring to in my statement.
I was referring to the financial distress part relative to her holdings.
Something that I have a lot more exposure to than you could possibly imagine, not that I feel that I have to justify it to you.
On *NO* level was I stating that I remotely thought I could fill her shoes as an artist. |
(Wikipedia) Pedant:
Negative connotation
The term in English is typically used with a negative connotation indicating someone overly concerned with minutiae and whose tone is perceived as condescending.
Usage of term
Being referred to as a pedant, or pedantic, is generally considered insulting.
Owww, that smarts, NikonJeb!
Actually, I read what was on the page and responded to it. That̢۪s all. My post had no ulterior motives, and was certainly not intended to be condescending, etc. Somehow, I didn̢۪t really think you wanted to swap situations and take on financial problems, raising of three small children and the problems of a very public career.
NikonJeb, I̢۪m sure we could swap life stories for everything we say on line and in person. Justification is not necessary or even wished for.
Perhaps this little segment of the overall discussion has now come to an end.
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02/28/2009 11:36:45 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
(Wikipedia) Pedant:
Negative connotation
The term in English is typically used with a negative connotation indicating someone overly concerned with minutiae and whose tone is perceived as condescending.
Usage of term
Being referred to as a pedant, or pedantic, is generally considered insulting.
Owww, that smarts, NikonJeb!
Actually, I read what was on the page and responded to it. That̢۪s all. My post had no ulterior motives, and was certainly not intended to be condescending, etc. Somehow, I didn̢۪t really think you wanted to swap situations and take on financial problems, raising of three small children and the problems of a very public career.
NikonJeb, I̢۪m sure we could swap life stories for everything we say on line and in person. Justification is not necessary or even wished for.
Perhaps this little segment of the overall discussion has now come to an end. |
He didn't call you a "pedant", he said "don't be pedantic." The adjective does not have the negative connotation that the noun does, or at least not the same, overtly negative connotation. It's a perfectly useful word that denotes obsession with details.
pedantic:
1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning.
2. Being showy of one̢۪s knowledge, often in a boring manner.
3. Being finicky or picky with language.
FWIW.
R.
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02/28/2009 11:50:20 AM · #59 |
but, at the further risk of being pedantic, we continue to digress
from the important subject of Annie Leibowitz.
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02/28/2009 11:55:30 AM · #60 |
| Where does she live in The Village? Maybe I could stop in front of her Brownstone and pass the hat... |
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02/28/2009 11:58:53 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Owww, that smarts, NikonJeb! |
Wasn't mean't to be rude or insulting; was just frustrated at the contextual twist as it appeared to me.
Originally posted by sfalice:
Somehow, I didn̢۪t really think you wanted to swap situations and take on financial problems, raising of three small children and the problems of a very public career. |
Actually, that was precisely my point......I should have her financial woes.
As to the kids....I love children, have only one of my own, and I CERTAINLY don't consider raising children to be a burden; my life has been enriched by my daughter beyond my wildest comprehension.
The public career thing? Yeah......that's got to suck to be revered in your industry.....NOT!!!!
I know people all over the world that have become my friends, shared their lives and opened, their doors to me because of my knowledge and experience with old Jaguars.......that was something that I willingly embarked upon and cultivated.
The situation was similar to how the photographers here exchange ideas and information.
I hope someday to actually be able to take the time and visit people that I've met throughout the years that I was involved with Jags, at least moreso than those I've met already.
Having a public persona is a choice as well.....you either accept it and make the choice to continue, or you change your life path.
Originally posted by sfalice:
Perhaps this little segment of the overall discussion has now come to an end. |
Are you kidding me?????
I can beat a dead horse for DAYS!!!!!.......8>)
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02/28/2009 02:49:46 PM · #62 |
 pawdrix, at least take some photos!
NikonJeb, since when did having a financial planner become as de rigueur as using a toothbrush? And say, What IS a financial planner? Do I need one? Aren't they the people who advise companies to outsource to countries where wages are low, and to relocate their assets to offshore companies? - Just kidding. Maybe. My remark about Rembrandt ET ALIA was intended to show some perspective and alleviate the righteous tone: we all know people who are fiscally inept, past and present. When I think of Rembrandt I remember his work, and only secondarily the spectacle of his extraordinary collector lifestyle that helped to put him into debt.
When I think of people I know personally who seem foolish with money, I think also of their delightful brio in spending, and often of their extraordinary generosity.
(You may be able to beat a dead horse for days, but I can do that too, and probably in vacuo). |
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02/28/2009 07:20:34 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
He didn't call you a "pedant", he said "don't be pedantic." The adjective does not have the negative connotation that the noun does, or at least not the same, overtly negative connotation. It's a perfectly useful word that denotes obsession with details.
pedantic:
1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning.
2. Being showy of one̢۪s knowledge, often in a boring manner.
3. Being finicky or picky with language.
FWIW.
R. |
Who wants to define "irony" for me?
Haha. Just trying to lighten the mood. ;)
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02/28/2009 09:26:11 PM · #64 |
| Sounds like a Michael Jackson/MC Hammer/Travis Henry thing. Lots of money, but too much debt. |
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02/28/2009 10:22:06 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by tnun:
When I think of people I know personally who seem foolish with money, I think also of their delightful brio in spending, and often of their extraordinary generosity. |
Amen....
It strikes me as somehow sad that a seemingly intelligent species can be governed in thought and deed by paper with numbers on it......8>)
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03/01/2009 05:19:46 AM · #66 |
I agree with NikonJeb, and that's not because I own a Nikon.
And losing copyrighted art, to other countries, is bad for all of us in this country. As in the implicated impact and possible trend.
Mistakes can hurt, at any level in society. Could'ves, should'ves don't help.
Some famous quote by someone said something like:
...the more you have the more you've got to lose...
Then there is the quote, "The bigger they are the harder they fall".
The grass is not greener, they just spray-paint it, like the foreclosed homes' lawns.
Life is full of risks, the entertainment are the Challenges.
Like DPChallenge, perhaps? Naw, I don't see any DonaldTrump usernames here.
(Okay, now ignore me, as usual.) |
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03/01/2009 06:23:09 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Still at it? Lots of people are no good at money. Rembrandt, Mozart, family members... |
Ironically in Rembrandt's case they used some very good financial planning to keep all the money away from creditors..... In his first phase he blew the money, pissed the wrong people off etc, but in the 2nd phase where Stoffels and his son kind of managed the whole thing they made some good decisions. But life was a b*** back then and they died pretty soon.
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03/01/2009 05:15:35 PM · #68 |
| Didn't know that part. There, DrAchoo, is your irony. Maybe a further irony that this didn't help Rembrandt himself that much? |
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08/23/2009 11:45:50 AM · #69 |
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09/06/2009 11:54:17 AM · #70 |
Well I started another Leibovitz thread dedicated to saving Annie but it was locked because this thread was started first.
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Seems Annie Leibovitz is in debt and may lose the rights to many of her great photos. I've seen collections here on DPC for people that have broken their cameras or have had some other minor financial issues to contend with - how about a collection from DPC members to keep Leibovitz in the black and allow her to keep the rights to all of her work.
I'm sure if we all pitch in about $100,000 each we could save her.....we must save her - she is too big to fail. NikonJeb - You in? |
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09/06/2009 12:29:39 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
When you're married and your spouse dies, there is no inheritance tax, because you already legally own the property due to community property laws (at least that's the way I understand it). I could be wrong, but if they had the same rights as heterosexual couples she would not have an added tax burden. |
You are partially correct. In many US States, you is not taxed on inheritance.
However, if you inherit real estate, you are responsible for any recurring property taxes as long as you own it. This can be very expensive for those that are not prepared. Also, income made on the property (if applicable) is also taxable.
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09/06/2009 12:41:36 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Well I started another Leibovitz thread dedicated to saving Annie but it was locked because this thread was started first.
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Seems Annie Leibovitz is in debt and may lose the rights to many of her great photos. I've seen collections here on DPC for people that have broken their cameras or have had some other minor financial issues to contend with - how about a collection from DPC members to keep Leibovitz in the black and allow her to keep the rights to all of her work.
I'm sure if we all pitch in about $100,000 each we could save her.....we must save her - she is too big to fail. NikonJeb - You in? |
You're joking, right? |
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09/06/2009 12:50:41 PM · #73 |
i admire her work, and career. but when you deal with loan sharks you'll likely get bitten.
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09/06/2009 12:53:36 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Well I started another Leibovitz thread dedicated to saving Annie but it was locked because this thread was started first.
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Seems Annie Leibovitz is in debt and may lose the rights to many of her great photos. I've seen collections here on DPC for people that have broken their cameras or have had some other minor financial issues to contend with - how about a collection from DPC members to keep Leibovitz in the black and allow her to keep the rights to all of her work.
I'm sure if we all pitch in about $100,000 each we could save her.....we must save her - she is too big to fail. NikonJeb - You in? |
You're joking, right? |
You did read it correctly right? Tongue was firmly in cheek I am sure. |
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09/06/2009 12:56:57 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Well I started another Leibovitz thread dedicated to saving Annie but it was locked because this thread was started first.
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Seems Annie Leibovitz is in debt and may lose the rights to many of her great photos. I've seen collections here on DPC for people that have broken their cameras or have had some other minor financial issues to contend with - how about a collection from DPC members to keep Leibovitz in the black and allow her to keep the rights to all of her work.
I'm sure if we all pitch in about $100,000 each we could save her.....we must save her - she is too big to fail. NikonJeb - You in? |
You're joking, right? |
You did read it correctly right? Tongue was firmly in cheek I am sure. |
Well, I thought I did, but generally people don't try and start new threads for just a silly joke.. but then, it IS kenskid.. but then..
dammit, where's the winky smilie! |
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