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02/25/2009 01:31:19 PM · #301 |
If you rely on the DPC public to validate your photography (read: your personal worth as an artist) against some ivory-tower ideals of creativity and artistic merit, and not just to provide a fun contest, you are in the wrong place. I've been here since 2002. I have a pretty good idea about what DPC was then and what it is now. Nothing's really changed except the pace of competition and which particular edits are allowed. This is why it remains successful, in my opinion.
My three ribbons have 21 votes <= 3. My 4th place image has 18 votes <= 3 all by itself. This is the nature of a distributed, online community with diverse opinions. There are people out there who think my photography is stupid and boring. I don't begrudge them that. I think the same of other people's work, too!
Why try harder on the technicals if someone's clever idea will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on the clever idea if someone's technicals will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on either if someone's camera or lighting will trump yours?
The answer is easy: YOU LIKE PHOTOGRAPHY - IT'S GRATIFYING.
I worry that some people are forgetting about the fun and are altogether too wrapped up in their personal worth. I enter contests with photos that I know won't win because I like them, and let DPC surprise me. Heck, sometimes people even see the same things in my work as I do! Sometimes I even try to find photos that I love that I know will score terribly, just to prove to myself that voters can be completely removed from whatever it is that interests me personally.
Get OVER it! |
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02/25/2009 02:19:35 PM · #302 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Robert, you've obviously not really paid full attention to what I've been saying all along in this thread and have been taking out of it what YOU think that I'm saying. There are a so many fallacies in your statement above that I can't even begin to straighten that around.
Truth is, I don't have the time nor, the energy to go on with explaining any further and this has turned into a "lynch mob" situation because while some will come in and post similar thoughts/opinions, they take a few slams from the main group of posters then, don't come back again. I've stuck it through and have taken quite a bit of flack for having done so. Because other posters with similar opinions to mine have seen the flack I've been taking and are not interested in being "ganged up on" (as I feel is happening), I don't see any need or reason to continue on either anymore.
You're right. DPC is what it is. |
Oh, yes, you're such a martyr.
eye roll |
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02/25/2009 02:27:03 PM · #303 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
If you rely on the DPC public to validate your photography (read: your personal worth as an artist) against some ivory-tower ideals of creativity and artistic merit, and not just to provide a fun contest, you are in the wrong place. I've been here since 2002. I have a pretty good idea about what DPC was then and what it is now. Nothing's really changed except the pace of competition and which particular edits are allowed. This is why it remains successful, in my opinion.
My three ribbons have 21 votes <= 3. My 4th place image has 18 votes <= 3 all by itself. This is the nature of a distributed, online community with diverse opinions. There are people out there who think my photography is stupid and boring. I don't begrudge them that. I think the same of other people's work, too!
Why try harder on the technicals if someone's clever idea will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on the clever idea if someone's technicals will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on either if someone's camera or lighting will trump yours?
The answer is easy: YOU LIKE PHOTOGRAPHY - IT'S GRATIFYING.
I worry that some people are forgetting about the fun and are altogether too wrapped up in their personal worth. I enter contests with photos that I know won't win because I like them, and let DPC surprise me. Heck, sometimes people even see the same things in my work as I do! Sometimes I even try to find photos that I love that I know will score terribly, just to prove to myself that voters can be completely removed from whatever it is that interests me personally.
Get OVER it! |
So, this site hasn't always had a huge amount of whiners then? ;)
Message edited by author 2009-02-25 14:28:13. |
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02/25/2009 03:37:25 PM · #304 |
Wow, Ed....I conceded this debate to you guys. You're right! And, yet, you still want to take shots?!
Even Mousie was generally AGREEING with what you've been saying all along and yet, you're taking a swipe at him too?! Why? He's agreeing with you and giving me a slap on the wrist in so many words.
I now, don't think that you have as much conviction towards your own personal opinion as much as I think that you just love to have something to snipe at! ;-)
Could the forums on DPC just be some sort of "punching bag outlet" for you?! LOL
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02/25/2009 03:41:36 PM · #305 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Wow, Ed....I conceded this debate to you guys. You're right! And, yet, you still want to take shots?!
Even Mousie was generally AGREEING with what you've been saying all along and yet, you're taking a swipe at him too?! Why? He's agreeing with you and giving me a slap on the wrist in so many words.
I now, don't think that you have as much conviction towards your own personal opinion as much as I think that you just love to have something to snipe at! ;-)
Could the forums on DPC just be some sort of "punching bag outlet" for you?! LOL |
Um. You weren't conceding the debate, and you know it. I don't have to say anything more because it's right there for anyone to read.
Secondly, how you got that my response to Mousie was a swipe at HIM I'll never know. Try reading it again.
On second thought, don't, because you pretty much never read anything properly. |
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02/25/2009 03:48:05 PM · #306 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
If you rely on the DPC public to validate your photography (read: your personal worth as an artist) against some ivory-tower ideals of creativity and artistic merit, and not just to provide a fun contest, you are in the wrong place. I've been here since 2002. I have a pretty good idea about what DPC was then and what it is now. Nothing's really changed except the pace of competition and which particular edits are allowed. This is why it remains successful, in my opinion.
My three ribbons have 21 votes <= 3. My 4th place image has 18 votes <= 3 all by itself. This is the nature of a distributed, online community with diverse opinions. There are people out there who think my photography is stupid and boring. I don't begrudge them that. I think the same of other people's work, too!
Why try harder on the technicals if someone's clever idea will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on the clever idea if someone's technicals will trump yours?
No wait!
Why try harder on either if someone's camera or lighting will trump yours?
The answer is easy: YOU LIKE PHOTOGRAPHY - IT'S GRATIFYING.
I worry that some people are forgetting about the fun and are altogether too wrapped up in their personal worth. I enter contests with photos that I know won't win because I like them, and let DPC surprise me. Heck, sometimes people even see the same things in my work as I do! Sometimes I even try to find photos that I love that I know will score terribly, just to prove to myself that voters can be completely removed from whatever it is that interests me personally.
Get OVER it! |
Hey, Peter....you're right. I am OVER it! :)
And, good advice! :) |
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02/25/2009 03:52:24 PM · #307 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
[ I am OVER it! :) |
Hallelujah.
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02/25/2009 03:52:48 PM · #308 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Wow, Ed....I conceded this debate to you guys. You're right! And, yet, you still want to take shots?! |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Secondly, how you got that my response to Mousie was a swipe at HIM I'll never know. Try reading it again.
On second thought, don't, because you pretty much never read anything properly. |
... Ummm will this leave a mark?
Ray |
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02/25/2009 04:12:09 PM · #309 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Wow, Ed....I conceded this debate to you guys. You're right! And, yet, you still want to take shots?!
Even Mousie was generally AGREEING with what you've been saying all along and yet, you're taking a swipe at him too?! Why? He's agreeing with you and giving me a slap on the wrist in so many words.
I now, don't think that you have as much conviction towards your own personal opinion as much as I think that you just love to have something to snipe at! ;-)
Could the forums on DPC just be some sort of "punching bag outlet" for you?! LOL |
Um. You weren't conceding the debate, and you know it. I don't have to say anything more because it's right there for anyone to read.
Secondly, how you got that my response to Mousie was a swipe at HIM I'll never know. Try reading it again.
On second thought, don't, because you pretty much never read anything properly. |
Attempting mind reading now, Ed? LOL
HINT: Don't quit your day job to make it a career.
Honestly, I really am conceding!
The reason: (Just so everyone else can see in B&W and you can take yet another swipe at it ;-))
I recognized these things:
1) If everyone else seems to be voting in a certain pattern, why am I fighting it? Whether I feel it's wrong or right, it makes no sense to debate it or fight it as it won't change a thing. It's only wasting time and energy.
2) Since everyone else has their voting patterns, right or wrong in my mind, it doesn't matter....it's how it is so, why not just join that pattern?
3) I majored in art and went with a system that scored artwork according to different criteria than what the system is scoring photography in here. When a piece was reviewed by both professors/peers, it was scored according to a set criteria, and marked/scored according to that criteria. Personal tastes played a smaller role in it than it does here. There were guidelines to go by. That is NOT the case here. Personal taste is apparently, the biggest criteria in here to vote by. So, where others would judge by some set of criteria, this site scores according to personal tastes/group/team tastes.
So, given all of that, I realize that I have it all wrong and simply have to learn that this isn't and wasn't the way/method that I was "trained" to look at or score art or photography (photography was not one of my majors but, it was part of the cirriculum I had been part of critiquing). You all have made me realize that I have to abandon that criteria in here and simply vote according to the "love it-hate it" type of stance.
I've also learned that there is no use in debating things like "cherry picking/thumbnail voting" and going along the proper route of voting either. ie: starting with the first image and working my way through methodically as many as I have time to vote on. It's been made clear that others vote this way and who am I to try to change that fact?
In short, I've conceded that I need to change my criteria whether I have been trained to see it as right or wrong. It's what DPC is that I have to adjust it to. So, in short, I am conceding what you have been fighting for me to concede to. DPC is DPC. DPC voting is according to personal tastes not certain set criteria. It's an "I like it or I don't like it or an it's ok" type of system and vote in whatever manner you like. Forget the random page-fair system crap too! Cherry pick/thumbnail judge/vote. Everyone else does!
So, I've conceded that it's ME that needs to change my mind and my criteria to suit everyone else's idea of things, again, whether I think it's right or wrong. That's the only way to be involved in this place.
Ok? There. Happy? It's in B&W. I have conceded...you have your reasons why! :)
As for Peter (Mousie) and his comments. I fail to see where he is differing from what all of you have been bantering to say all along.
He's essentially saying, shoot and enter what you like, score it the way that you want to score it, according to what you like or don't like and grow a thicker skin when it comes to votes. (ie: if you get a low score...so what?) Where is that different than what you all are saying? |
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02/25/2009 04:13:27 PM · #310 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
[ I am OVER it! :) |
Hallelujah. |
Yeah, I knew that would draw a round of applause from you and your gang! :) |
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02/25/2009 04:13:54 PM · #311 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Robert, you've obviously not really paid full attention to what I've been saying all along in this thread and have been taking out of it what YOU think that I'm saying. There are a so many fallacies in your statement above that I can't even begin to straighten that around. |
At least I responded to you with specifics. That's more courtesy than you've shown me. I'm not interested in your blanket statement that I'm not paying attention. I'm not interested in fallacies that you're unwilling to expose as such. I'm basically not interested in self-referential whining and self-appointed martyrdom, is about the sum of it.
R.
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02/25/2009 04:17:37 PM · #312 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
As for Peter (Mousie) and his comments. I fail to see where he is differing from what all of you have been bantering to say all along.
He's essentially saying, shoot and enter what you like, score it the way that you want to score it, according to what you like or don't like and grow a thicker skin when it comes to votes. (ie: if you get a low score...so what?) Where is that different than what you all are saying? |
You amuse me.
He wrote about having been around DPC for a very long time, and that it hasn't changed much in all that time, but still felt that he had to call out the complainers to get over it.
I responded, tongue-in-cheek, that complainers must be a new phenomenon (knowing full well they aren't). In NO way was my response even close to insinuating that he himself was a whiner. It boggles the mind that you could see it that way, but like I said, you only read what you want to. |
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02/25/2009 04:25:16 PM · #313 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Robert, you've obviously not really paid full attention to what I've been saying all along in this thread and have been taking out of it what YOU think that I'm saying. There are a so many fallacies in your statement above that I can't even begin to straighten that around. |
At least I responded to you with specifics. That's more courtesy than you've shown me. I'm not interested in your blanket statement that I'm not paying attention. I'm not interested in fallacies that you're unwilling to expose as such. I'm basically not interested in self-referential whining and self-appointed martyrdom, is about the sum of it.
R. |
Fair enough, Robert. You have wrongly assumed a great number of things and made yourself a self-appointed mind reader and I'm not interested in responding to nor, correcting the fallacies that you've typed in about my thinking either so, we're even! :)
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02/25/2009 04:26:45 PM · #314 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
As for Peter (Mousie) and his comments. I fail to see where he is differing from what all of you have been bantering to say all along.
He's essentially saying, shoot and enter what you like, score it the way that you want to score it, according to what you like or don't like and grow a thicker skin when it comes to votes. (ie: if you get a low score...so what?) Where is that different than what you all are saying? |
You amuse me.
He wrote about having been around DPC for a very long time, and that it hasn't changed much in all that time, but still felt that he had to call out the complainers to get over it.
I responded, tongue-in-cheek, that complainers must be a new phenomenon (knowing full well they aren't). In NO way was my response even close to insinuating that he himself was a whiner. It boggles the mind that you could see it that way, but like I said, you only read what you want to. |
Oh, Ed....you amuse me as well. I see that you still can't stop taking swipes! :)
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02/25/2009 04:28:05 PM · #315 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
I am OVER it! :) |
Hallelujah. |
I knew it was too good to be true, alas. |
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02/25/2009 04:34:30 PM · #316 |
Vote however you want.
That's my take on it.
The bickering from both sides is just so much "blah blah blah" over and over. |
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02/25/2009 04:35:39 PM · #317 |
Y'all ready for this thread to be locked, or does anyone actually have something to say about low votes, as opposed to your mutually low opinions of each other?
DPC Forum Rules
I think you'll all find you're asymptotic path towards collision with one or more of the afore-cited rules ... please proceed at your own risk. |
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02/25/2009 04:37:27 PM · #318 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
I am OVER it! :) |
Hallelujah. |
I knew it was too good to be true, alas. |
LOL...so, still not happy? Hmmmmm.....even conceding doesn't do it?
Well, it must be just me then, because I don't see anyone leaping on Ed or Robert for still going on and on wiht their banter at me. :)
Sorry, but my concession doesn't include me never posting another word on any boards again! :-) Guess you'll just have to learn to like me! *grin* |
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02/25/2009 04:38:05 PM · #319 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Y'all ready for this thread to be locked, or does anyone actually have something to say about low votes, as opposed to your mutually low opinions of each other?
DPC Forum Rules
I think you'll all find you're asymptotic path towards collision with one or more of the afore-cited rules ... please proceed at your own risk. |
You can lock this baby up! :) |
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02/25/2009 04:51:49 PM · #320 |
Before it's locked... (and I can't believe I'm even saying anything)...
I vote on all photos in a challenge, in the order served by the server. I don't cherry pick. I don't vote on technicals alone, nor do I vote on content alone. Yet I am one of "them" (as far as I can discern from the meandering conversations). I appreciate originality. I like to see different takes on a challenge. I've been here long enough to be tired of certain things, but also realize that sometimes it's the "first time" someone has tried one of those certain things (water drops, sunsets, pick your "I've seen a lot of these" categories and insert here) so I try to be fair to those entries. I won't give them a 1, but they probably won't get a 9 either. |
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02/25/2009 04:57:28 PM · #321 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Y'all ready for this thread to be locked, or does anyone actually have something to say about low votes, as opposed to your mutually low opinions of each other?
DPC Forum Rules
I think you'll all find you're asymptotic path towards collision with one or more of the afore-cited rules ... please proceed at your own risk. |
You can lock this baby up! :) |
Yup, lock away and save us from ourselves! We agree on something!
R.
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02/25/2009 05:02:00 PM · #322 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Before it's locked... (and I can't believe I'm even saying anything)...
I vote on all photos in a challenge, in the order served by the server. I don't cherry pick. I don't vote on technicals alone, nor do I vote on content alone. Yet I am one of "them" (as far as I can discern from the meandering conversations). I appreciate originality. I like to see different takes on a challenge. I've been here long enough to be tired of certain things, but also realize that sometimes it's the "first time" someone has tried one of those certain things (water drops, sunsets, pick your "I've seen a lot of these" categories and insert here) so I try to be fair to those entries. I won't give them a 1, but they probably won't get a 9 either. |
Melethia, I was speaking more generally towards those in this particular thread who have been advocating the "vote however you want" and "vote according to your own tastes" stance. I know that there are those in here, who are like me, and while they may not like a certain type of shot (ie: for me...the 1 million bees on flower shots LOL) because we've all "seen it too many times" type of shots but, vote it according to how well it's been done and leave our personal tastes to the side a bit on these. I am the same as you in these aspects. I do try to be fair on all entries as well and I recognize that there are others in this site that do the same thing. My point all along was about this type of voting criteria. In short, I was referring to "everyone" as everyone in this thread who have been advocating the "vote as you please" or "vote by what you like" or "if it doesn't tickle me pink...give it a 1" type of stance. :) |
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02/25/2009 05:13:30 PM · #323 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
In short, I was referring to "everyone" as everyone in this thread who have been advocating the "vote as you please" or "vote by what you like" or "if it doesn't tickle me pink...give it a 1" type of stance. :) |
Why do you persist in mischaracterizing this? "We" aren't *advocating* this sort of voting. To be an advocate means to actively encourage, to act to further the goals of. No, what "we" advocate is the idea that everyone has a right to apply their own standards to the voting process, and I, personally, find it mind boggling that there can be any debate on that narrow topic. It's inconceivable to me that the site can, should, would, or ought to impose some sort of "standard" on the voting process.
R.
ETA: actually, what "we" advocate might be defined as "vote as you please", that's reasonable. But we don't advocate the other two, we just accept that they happen.
Message edited by author 2009-02-25 17:15:07.
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02/25/2009 05:14:00 PM · #324 |
Ah, but you see, my method of voting IS voting as I please. I apologize, kinda, but my personal tastes do have an influence on my voting. My highest rated photographer is some guy named  nixter and my personal top ten in most challenges tend to be more often monochromatic than not. It's what (dare I say it?) I like, and it's what I like to shoot, too. I think a lot is getting lost in semantics here. Without everyone having a checksheet, and the SAME checksheet, voting will invariably vary. And I'm glad it does. It would be terribly dull otherwise. |
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02/25/2009 05:17:29 PM · #325 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
"if it doesn't tickle me pink...give it a 1" type of stance. :) |
I wasn't aware that there was anyone in this thread who had advocated that! |
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