President of US - A question for NON-Americans

09/29/2008 02:05:03 PM · #51

For those who want Obama to become president, please know that AlQueda, Hamas, and Hugo Chavez share your view.

edit to add I think Ahmadinajad is on the pro Obama list as well.

Message edited by author 2008-09-29 14:23:43.

09/29/2008 02:13:43 PM · #52

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by dassilem:
...but Palin is just too power hungry...and her Pro-life views would not get my vote if it meant saving my life!

Her prolife views are intended to save "someones" life - even if you personally think that that person is a non-person and not worth saving. Or to put it bluntly - worth killing.

So I suppose she must be adamantly opposed to capital punishment as well ...

Thank you for making my point. That is precisely my critique of those who want some killing but not all. I do not personally understand how one can be pro-choice and against capital punishment or against the right of self defense or against the death that occurrs on the battlefield. Either you are for no killing (which includes pro life stance on abortion) or you are for all killing. Anything else is hypocracy to me. Now, some claim a distinction between deserved death as in criminal who rape and murder. What is more bizarre, are those that defend the death of innocent unborns yet reel at the thought of terminating a rapist or murderer or terrorist bomber. THAT is the worst position in my opinion.

figaro

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/29/2008 02:25:31 PM · #53

Shall we keep this on track a little - from a British perspective it seems a large majority of people support Obama, and certainly everyone I've spoken to finds the idea of voting for McCain/Palin pretty inconceivable.

Frankly, opinion of the US seems to be at an all-time low over here (within my fairly short lifetime at least) and I don't like to see it. Although I can't pretend that there aren't elements of life in some parts of America that I find very difficult to comprehend (the UK is hardly an exception) - I think I'm fairly representative of British people by saying that we owe a hell of a lot to the States and admire a great deal about US society. Obama says that his first mission is to restore the standing of the US in the world, and I think this resonates with a lot of us in Europe after eight years of Bush idiocy, and though we may not agree with everything he says I think a lot of people believe he is the right man to achieve this.

I just can't help thinking that a McCain/Palin victory would represent the day the world lost faith in America altogether. That's my two cents.

Message edited by author 2008-09-29 14:26:30.

09/29/2008 03:35:48 PM · #54

Really? And who signs the budget into law?

Is the sign saying "The Buck Stops Here" still on the desk in the Oval Office, or did GW have a new one made that says "I Pass the Buck"?

Originally posted by coronamv:

Well either you do not understand the way our system works "IE who is responsiblefor the economy" or you just are another bush hater. Congress is responsible for the oversight of the banking regulations in this country. Congress "both parties" failed. The Bush administration warned them repeatedly to do something about the subprime market before it was too late. This has been a problem for over 30 years also not something that sprung up overnight. Did we all forget the Savings and loan crisis of the 90's?
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by jeger:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Thank God and the Constitution the world doesn't get a say in our elections.

And how was electing George Bush for a second term a good choice? :P

Well, for starters it protected us from having President John Kerry. Egads!

That would be John Kerry the war hero, as compared to George Bush the (occasional) pilot-trainee? The same George Bush who brought us an unnecessary war, tax cuts for billionaires along with an additional 4-6 trillion in deficits, and whose policies of rampant deregulation brought us the current little financial mess?

The same George Bush who bankrupted all his oil companies and now bankrupted your nation. You could have seen that coming.

09/29/2008 03:53:20 PM · #55

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Is the sign saying "The Buck Stops Here" still on the desk in the Oval Office, or did GW have a new one made that says "I Pass the Buck"?

The only buck passing is by the democrats who are not responsible for anything - even the votes they cast in congress. They are duped and confused and victims of a massive right wing conspiracy to thwart their very souls. When Nagle said it was the Federal Governments fault that his school buses sat in a parking lot instead of transporting New Orleanians out of harms way - that is when I clearly understood the victimization of democrats. They are not responsible for anything. Everything is somebody else's fault and somebody else must pay to make it right.

09/29/2008 04:07:06 PM · #56

So, the president doesn't sign the budget anymore?

And what does Nagle have to do with the president signing the Federal budget?

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Is the sign saying "The Buck Stops Here" still on the desk in the Oval Office, or did GW have a new one made that says "I Pass the Buck"?

The only buck passing is by the democrats who are not responsible for anything - even the votes they cast in congress. They are duped and confused and victims of a massive right wing conspiracy to thwart their very souls. When Nagle said it was the Federal Governments fault that his school buses sat in a parking lot instead of transporting New Orleanians out of harms way - that is when I clearly understood the victimization of democrats. They are not responsible for anything. Everything is somebody else's fault and somebody else must pay to make it right.

Message edited by author 2008-09-29 16:11:03.

Phil

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/29/2008 04:25:58 PM · #57

Wowie.

Just want to make sure that I'm being a good American so help me out if you can. When brainwashed by one party.....always blame the other, correct?

Eyesup

Nikon D300

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

09/29/2008 04:29:16 PM · #58

Originally posted by Phil:

Wowie.

Just want to make sure that I'm being a good American so help me out if you can. When brainwashed by one party.....always blame the other, correct?

Yup, more or less... in place of blame, name calling, mud-slinging, and back-biting are also acceptable ;)

dahkota

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/29/2008 05:59:24 PM · #59

Originally posted by Flash:

I am anti-death penalty. I am anti-war. I am pro-life. However, I am also pro-choice. Why? Because I don't force my moral values on anyone. I will not protest the death penalty, no matter how reprehensible nor morally bankrupt I believe it is. It is not my right to take away your rights and I will defend to my death, your right to do what you feel necessary. the same goes for abortion.

Years ago, the pro-choice people allowed the anti-choice people to co-opt the term pro-life. But, I am also pro-life, pro-everyone's right to choose their own life and make their own choices no matter how against my morals they might be. Why? Because I am not judge nor jury.

Death is death. I am a pacifist. I shall not kill. But, I shall not control your life, your beliefs, your moral system, nor subjugate them to mine. Because one day we might all find out that I was wrong. And at least I can admit that I don't know everything and might actually be wrong in some of my thoughts.

Now, if abortion were made illegal, I would fight for child support from conception and alimony/support for the mother during pregnancy so she can have adequate medical care and food. Additionally, the father would have to pay the mother for her care of the child until she returns to work. Make it hit men in the wallet from conception rather than forcing the mother to bear the entire burden. Lets see how fast men warm up to that idea.

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

09/29/2008 07:42:05 PM · #60

Meanwhile dahkota, us gunslinging right wing moralists will fight to the death your right to feel this way.

09/29/2008 07:45:43 PM · #61

Originally posted by dahkota:

Now, if abortion were made illegal, I would fight for child support from conception and alimony/support for the mother during pregnancy so she can have adequate medical care and food. Additionally, the father would have to pay the mother for her care of the child until she returns to work. Make it hit men in the wallet from conception rather than forcing the mother to bear the entire burden. Lets see how fast men warm up to that idea.

So, in essence, you'd punish all men for the actions of all the people (men and women alike) who made abortion illegal. WTF?

dahkota

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/29/2008 08:34:46 PM · #62

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by dahkota:

Now, if abortion were made illegal, I would fight for child support from conception and alimony/support for the mother during pregnancy so she can have adequate medical care and food. Additionally, the father would have to pay the mother for her care of the child until she returns to work. Make it hit men in the wallet from conception rather than forcing the mother to bear the entire burden. Lets see how fast men warm up to that idea.

So, in essence, you'd punish all men for the actions of all the people (men and women alike) who made abortion illegal. WTF?

No, just the ones that impregnated women. Why should women bear the burden alone? If its a life at conception, it should be supported at conception. And so should the mother be if forced to carry the life to term. I'm pretty sure though, that while choice is not high on some people's radar now, if those measures were passed BEFORE it became illegal, you can bet it probably wouldn't become illegal. And

dahkota

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/29/2008 08:35:47 PM · #63

Originally posted by David Ey:

Meanwhile dahkota, us gunslinging right wing moralists will fight to the death your right to feel this way.

Good to know I'm allowed to feel.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

09/29/2008 10:41:41 PM · #64

Originally posted by David Ey:

Meanwhile dahkota, us gunslinging right wing moralists will fight to the death your right to feel this way.

"gunslinging right wing moralists" aren't the only ones fighting, sorry to burst your bubble. They just happen to be the ones most likely to get self-righteous about it.

heavyj

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4

Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 ASPH

09/30/2008 06:44:30 AM · #65

Originally posted by Flash:

For those who want Obama to become president, please know that AlQueda, Hamas, and Hugo Chavez share your view.

edit to add I think Ahmadinajad is on the pro Obama list as well.

I think their pro Obama because they've had enough of Bush, and McCain is more of Bush. They don't want McCain for the same reasons other NON radical leaders support Obama, he doesn't want to go to war where it's not necessary.

As to the question to being pro-choice but anti-death penalty and not understanding how that works, here goes: I don't know and will never know until after I've died and met my maker when life is truly being born. That doubt makes me pro-choice with the hope that the choice is life. However, if you mix this with religion then I would say to you that I'm sure God knows when life will come to term and not 'bless' a child with life and consciousness. Again, I don't know and so I can only hope that someday someone can prove to me without a doubt when a fetus is a more than just that.

With the death penalty, you are killing. You may be killing a murderer of children, but you are still without a doubt (No doubt at all) killing someone. Regardless of his/her crimes, when it's so horrible, our instincts want to lash out and cause more harm than imaginable to this person. However, mix religion with it, forgiveness is the way. It may take a life time, but it's what you pray for. I can only speak from a religious point of view and I don't believe that sending men and women to die in a chamber is humane. If my wife were killed, no matter how, I would want someone to suffer. I know I would turn my back on what I am saying now, but that's because your emotions get the better of you in that moment and for maybe years to come. Your grieve but revenge is not going to solve it. Although I'm sure for others it may. Touchy subjects...

MikeO

Fujifilm x100

09/30/2008 07:29:23 AM · #66

As I stated in a previous thread I find the US elections fascinating. I dont know enough about the politics of the candidates to support either but whoever is elected will have a major impact on the rest of the world (pretty obvious). I shall have to do a bit more research before I would commit to either of the candidates.

pawdrix

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

09/30/2008 08:21:52 AM · #67

Originally posted by zeuszen:

The global village is hungry for a little light after nearly a decade of darkness.

As you can see by reading this thread some Americans really do like their darkness. And they're stickin to it!

09/30/2008 09:04:06 AM · #68

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by David Ey:
Meanwhile dahkota, us gunslinging right wing moralists will fight to the death your right to feel this way.

"gunslinging right wing moralists" aren't the only ones fighting, sorry to burst your bubble. They just happen to be the ones most likely to get self-righteous about it.

All the chest thumping and gun waving while everyone else seeks cover.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

09/30/2008 09:16:37 AM · #69

i dont really know either of them, but if i had to choose which of the two to have a meal with, i think i'd rather be eating with Mr Obama because he looked like a fine person to have a chat with.

edit to add: but if i can REALLY choose, i'd rather be eating with one of your hollywood actresses! :p

Message edited by author 2008-09-30 09:17:46.

09/30/2008 09:18:11 AM · #70

Originally posted by heavyj:

Originally posted by Flash:
For those who want Obama to become president, please know that AlQueda, Hamas, and Hugo Chavez share your view.

edit to add I think Ahmadinajad is on the pro Obama list as well.

I think their pro Obama because they've had enough of Bush, and McCain is more of Bush. They don't want McCain for the same reasons other NON radical leaders support Obama, he doesn't want to go to war where it's not necessary.

As to the question to being pro-choice but anti-death penalty and not understanding how that works, here goes: I don't know and will never know until after I've died and met my maker when life is truly being born. That doubt makes me pro-choice with the hope that the choice is life. However, if you mix this with religion then I would say to you that I'm sure God knows when life will come to term and not 'bless' a child with life and consciousness. Again, I don't know and so I can only hope that someday someone can prove to me without a doubt when a fetus is a more than just that.

With the death penalty, you are killing. You may be killing a murderer of children, but you are still without a doubt (No doubt at all) killing someone. Regardless of his/her crimes, when it's so horrible, our instincts want to lash out and cause more harm than imaginable to this person. However, mix religion with it, forgiveness is the way. It may take a life time, but it's what you pray for. I can only speak from a religious point of view and I don't believe that sending men and women to die in a chamber is humane. If my wife were killed, no matter how, I would want someone to suffer. I know I would turn my back on what I am saying now, but that's because your emotions get the better of you in that moment and for maybe years to come. Your grieve but revenge is not going to solve it. Although I'm sure for others it may. Touchy subjects...

Just wanted to comment that I find this post to be very candid. I appreciated reading it. My posting of those who openly support Obama, like Hugo Chavez, Hamas, etc was intended to illustrate that there must in fact be a reason. As suggested by some, our world standing has suffered under Bush and Obama has the best chance of correcting that perception (reference his appeal in his recent Germany speech), that it may be true. My question would be however, why would Hamas or Ahmadinajad or Hugo Chavez care that the US has a better standing in the world. What benefit do they enjoy from the US regaining good working relations with our European allies. It seems to me that the aforementioned groups and dictators would prefer to have the evil US continue to be bogged down and unsupported, making it harder for us to address their actions. So - if they are supportive of Obama, then I at least, question their motive. I am not convinced they have our best interest at heart.

Regarding my posting on death/killing - although I purposely did not elaborate on my personal views, my only expectation is that folks are consistent. As dahkota wrote, she is a pacifist and consistently a pacifist. That to me is a valid position. Pro life on all fronts including abortion and the death penalty. I also understand those who believe that life does not qualify as life until birth and accept abortion as a personal matter. I only struggle with those who denounce capital punishment for rapists, murderers, and terrorists bombers, yet approve or sanction the intentional termination of life in the womb. If they can justify the the death of the unborn as unfit then I would think they could justify the termination of heinious criminals. Those who have actually choosen to be sociopathic predators.

Panasonic Lumix 20mm f1.7 ASPH

09/30/2008 09:38:17 AM · #71

Originally posted by crayon:

i dont really know either of them, but if i had to choose which of the two to have a meal with, i think i'd rather be eating with Mr Obama because he looked like a fine person to have a chat with.

Few Americans will ever get the chance to have a meal with either presidential candidate once he is elected. They are electing a president to represent the values/policies that they most closely align with. Abortion, gun rights, social welfare, unions, national defense, size of government, taxes, etc. Those with a more liberal philosophy with likely support the more liberal candidate and those with a more conservative bent will support the more conservative candidate. Race, sex and religious affiliations are secondary for the majority of voters. I find it interesting that when Obama and McCain were nearly tied in the polls, the discussion was on how many whites would vote for a black candidate. Now that Obama is leading by 8 points, that discussion has gone away. Same voters, but now the race issue is not a factor. Hmmmm? Must not have been a factor in the first place.

heavyj

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4

09/30/2008 10:36:43 AM · #72

Originally posted by Flash:

I only struggle with those who denounce capital punishment for rapists, murderers, and terrorists bombers, yet approve or sanction the intentional termination of life in the womb. If they can justify the the death of the unborn as unfit then I would think they could justify the termination of heinious criminals. Those who have actually choosen to be sociopathic predators.

That's because those that are pro-choice do not believe that a life is being terminated (Perhaps not all, but I would assume most). There is no life, simply something that has the potential to carry through to be a baby. A rapist/murderer is a person. That person's life may have very little value by human standards, we may even call these people 'demons' or 'pure evil' but by the standards of God (For those of us who are religious) we can't judge them by killing them. A life is for God to take not man. If a fetus is a life and can be proven so then I would be pro-life and further try to support sex education rather than any form of abstinence program.

As for the dictators of the world. I believe that they are pro Obama simply because he's willing to meet them without any conditions. Go into a meeting to get things started. When you have someone like Obama in office, you are less likely to have your country invaded for it's oil (ie. Iran and Venezuela). Any group that seeks to remove troops from their country will be on the side of a leader who wants his troops home. Obama wants the troops home and McCain doesn't. They don't want to fight with the U.S. They want the U.S out. Obama is promising that. Whether he can pull it off is another question but the mere fact that he says he would makes it a no-brainer for middle-east dictators or any other group not wanting to fight with a superpower.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/30/2008 11:55:58 AM · #73

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by zeuszen:

The global village is hungry for a little light after nearly a decade of darkness.

As you can see by reading this thread some Americans really do like their darkness. And they're stickin to it!

Plato's cave.

09/30/2008 12:09:48 PM · #74

"[Socrates] Yes, my friend, I said; and there lies the point. You must contrive for your future rulers another and a better life than that of a ruler, and then you may have a well-ordered State; for only in the State which offers this, will they rule who are truly rich, not in silver and gold, but in virtue and wisdom, which are the true blessings of life. Whereas if they go to the administration of public affairs, poor and hungering after the' own private advantage, thinking that hence they are to snatch the chief good, order there can never be; for they will be fighting about office, and the civil and domestic broils which thus arise will be the ruin of the rulers themselves and of the whole State. "

pawdrix