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08/27/2008 08:51:45 PM · #201
Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

The point is I want a comment that is more than just an observation. That is the point of a comment. Not just that you have eyes to see a photo, but that you are actually registering what is there and making a comment on your unique view. Anyone could tell me it is out of focus. Why bother posting it on a photography web site to find that out?

He-he. I didn't know there were rules for comments now. ??? Now a critique may be different, but a comment is a comment - yes/no?


DA RULES. But people don't follow them anyway.
This one gets broken a lot "keep an open mind to other interpretations of the challenge topic." (many of us remember the ruckus one troll made during the fruits and veggies challenge but most cases are more subtle.)

But regardless. No, I don't think a comment is a comment. I've had comments like this before: "?" "ok". If a cat ran across my keys and I accidentally entered it "fjklfdjalkfd" would that be a comment too?

No... I don't think all comments are created equal. ;) Sue me.

Fun response there. :-) However, those are "Voting" rules...not rules for commenting. FWIW - I've seen a handful in this challenge that are OOF, even if they are abstract - it just didn't work.
08/27/2008 08:52:39 PM · #202
Originally posted by levyj413:

Wow. Maybe I'm in ribbon contention with this score. :)

Votes: 45
Views: 66
Avg Vote: 5.9778
Comments: 1

Break that 6 mark yet? :-)
08/27/2008 09:03:30 PM · #203
Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by ryand:

to prash

I appreciate you being willing to change and adapt to this, seeing as you are new here, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to vote on the whole challenge, I for one use the whole scale, I don't have a particular system for voting.

Typically if the shot is technically sound I won't give it less than a 5, even if it is bad, just because I see that they know how to do it, and they are certainly trying. If it is technically sound and phenomenal in other areas, I'll give it a 9 or a 10, and likely a fav., if it is not technically sound and lacks visual appeal, i'll give it the 1 or the 2, now of course there are exceptions, like the ones that aren't "technically" a good photo, but still has a lot of visual appeal.


Thank you!!!! For the first time in past 10 hours, some mature advice. I appreciate it.


Was mine not mature and nicely put then? Oh well next time I will go for the brash and to the point method ;)

Obviously how you score is completely up to you and no one that I can see has suggested otherwise, I would maybe suggest that it might not be wise to ask people to take time to help when you are not willing to give your opinions yourself or back up your lower votes with a comment that other users may find helpful, I don't think I have ever voted lower than 4 without a comment as to why and I have tried to make comments (constructive where possible) on at least 30% of each challenges I have voted on.

I'm certainly not trying to bash you Prash, but I think you could benefit a little from your own advice re: chilling out, you seem a little aggressive at the moment.

By the way I am new here too, I've already made some very good friends and one of them is MAK who is one hell of a nice bloke, I think his comment may have been taken out of context to be fair.
08/27/2008 09:05:52 PM · #204
Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by Hatchet:

This is me not yelling.. but as an example, this photo got 2 ones. I'm thinking only trolls would rate this photo a one. Seriously.. c'mon!!



I don't think so. I think someone that is hands-down, completely, 100% fed up with the constant visibility of shots like this on DPC might vote it a 1 simply out of frustration or simple dislike.

Your tastes are going to be different from someone else's. It is wrong to automatically assume that their reasoning behind such a vote is simple discordance or evil intent.


You're not far off my point for sure.


though i don't think i've ever given a 1, this photo has zero soul, despite whatever technique. maybe dpc is more comfortable with that, but some people (i hope!) may want a photo to make them feel or think.
08/27/2008 09:07:25 PM · #205
Man, I was happy with my score anyway, but reading through this thread I'm pretty shocked with it. I mean, I like the image a lot, but i saw a lot of great images in there. If i might hazard a guess as to why so many low scores... There are 319 submissions in this challenge. That's a lot to expect a voter to go through, made even worse by the fact that it's abstract. that's one of the reasons i try not to vote for more than about 10-15 minutes at a time. After that i tend to get "click and move on" syndrome, and that's not fair for anybody.

Anyway..

Votes: 74
Views: 111
Avg Vote: 6.2432
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 08/27/08 08:55 pm
08/27/2008 09:09:01 PM · #206
Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by ryand:

to prash

I appreciate you being willing to change and adapt to this, seeing as you are new here, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to vote on the whole challenge, I for one use the whole scale, I don't have a particular system for voting.

Typically if the shot is technically sound I won't give it less than a 5, even if it is bad, just because I see that they know how to do it, and they are certainly trying. If it is technically sound and phenomenal in other areas, I'll give it a 9 or a 10, and likely a fav., if it is not technically sound and lacks visual appeal, i'll give it the 1 or the 2, now of course there are exceptions, like the ones that aren't "technically" a good photo, but still has a lot of visual appeal.


Thank you!!!! For the first time in past 10 hours, some mature advice. I appreciate it.


Was mine not mature and nicely put then? Oh well next time I will go for the brash and to the point method ;)

Obviously how you score is completely up to you and no one that I can see has suggested otherwise, I would maybe suggest that it might not be wise to ask people to take time to help when you are not willing to give your opinions yourself or back up your lower votes with a comment that other users may find helpful, I don't think I have ever voted lower than 4 without a comment as to why and I have tried to make comments (constructive where possible) on at least 30% of each challenges I have voted on.

I'm certainly not trying to bash you Prash, but I think you could benefit a little from your own advice re: chilling out, you seem a little aggressive at the moment.

By the way I am new here too, I've already made some very good friends and one of them is MAK who is one hell of a nice bloke, I think his comment may have been taken out of context to be fair.


I did not mean to judge anyone's response.. certainly not yours. I admit I was a bit agitated because of everyone trying to put my voting style down (which I adapted to suite the expectations without affecting my relative scoring).

My apologies to you, and to everyone who made an attempt to rationally explain what the problem was.
08/27/2008 09:09:55 PM · #207
Originally posted by Jaker:


Votes: 74
Views: 111
Avg Vote: 6.2432
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 08/27/08 08:55 pm

Nice score you've got going there. :-)
08/27/2008 09:10:32 PM · #208
Originally posted by bob350:

Votes: 72
Views: 94
Avg Vote: 5.5417
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 08/27/08 08:43 pm

Nice change from 5.2xxx earlier.

Nice to see the score on the way up Bob!
08/27/2008 09:11:03 PM · #209
Originally posted by skewsme:

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by Hatchet:

This is me not yelling.. but as an example, this photo got 2 ones. I'm thinking only trolls would rate this photo a one. Seriously.. c'mon!!



I don't think so. I think someone that is hands-down, completely, 100% fed up with the constant visibility of shots like this on DPC might vote it a 1 simply out of frustration or simple dislike.

Your tastes are going to be different from someone else's. It is wrong to automatically assume that their reasoning behind such a vote is simple discordance or evil intent.


You're not far off my point for sure.


though i don't think i've ever given a 1, this photo has zero soul, despite whatever technique. maybe dpc is more comfortable with that, but some people (i hope!) may want a photo to make them feel or think.


This picture doesnt appeal to me personally also. It touches the eyes, not the soul. But then again we are all different.
08/27/2008 09:11:26 PM · #210
Originally posted by Prash:

My apologies to you, and to everyone who made an attempt to rationally explain what the problem was.


Accepted, now lets get back to the scores....

Votes: 63
Views: 97
Avg Vote: 4.8730
Comments: 1

Damn voters LOL :)

Night all, need sleep
08/27/2008 09:12:40 PM · #211
Votes: 67
Views: 110
Avg Vote: 5.1045
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0

To get back on topic myself.

Also, 319 entries? Haha. I didn't realize there were that many. Wow. I haven't had time to vote yet.
08/27/2008 09:14:37 PM · #212
Votes Received: 62
Avg Vote Received: 4.3387
Comments:
Made: 20
Helpful: 17
Received: 0
Helpful: 0

Still happy with the score:-) I miss the comments though.
08/27/2008 09:14:54 PM · #213
Well if there's one thing I have started to notice across different threads is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. What I mean by this is, practically everyone expects a comment if they receive a vote < 3~4. You're called a "troll" if you do not leave that comment. But if you leave a comment on why you feel it deserves that low of a number, then the person receiving it may rant in the forums(or send a pm) that you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have enough experience, you don't understand the technicals, you didn't read the mind of the photographer correctly, etc etc. I think this is why so many decide not to leave a comment. Even if some cannot see it, there is a little bit of a tribe mentality here on this site - many cliques. If you piss off one of those "tribe" members, you might just piss off all of them. And this is why some may feel that it's not worth leaving what may appear to the photographer as constructive criticism negative feedback .

FWIW, I don't vote in challenges I enter. It allows me to vote completely free of bias and how I honestly feel towards a shot. The first one or two challenges I did vote in where I was entered, I felt that little bit of bias biting at me. I knew right then that no matter how fair I could be, it would be for the best to not do so in the future. I realize that many people here vote the same and there are those that do not. The way I see it, after a couple hundred votes, it all evens out in the end. And for those who wonder how I base my vote, I tend to hand out higher votes on shots that are unique and different, something that hasn't been done a zillion times and one that fits the challenge well without shoehorning. If you have to shoehorn, then don't submit - wait for another challenge that you know you can come up with something good.

Votes: 72
Views: 97
Avg Vote: 5.8472
Comments: 1
08/27/2008 09:17:59 PM · #214
Originally posted by Jaker:

Man, I was happy with my score anyway, but reading through this thread I'm pretty shocked with it. I mean, I like the image a lot, but i saw a lot of great images in there. If i might hazard a guess as to why so many low scores... There are 319 submissions in this challenge. That's a lot to expect a voter to go through, made even worse by the fact that it's abstract. that's one of the reasons i try not to vote for more than about 10-15 minutes at a time. After that i tend to get "click and move on" syndrome, and that's not fair for anybody.


Click-and-move-on syndrome, what a great way to describe it.
08/27/2008 09:21:58 PM · #215
Originally posted by ti_evom:

Well if there's one thing I have started to notice across different threads is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. What I mean by this is, practically everyone expects a comment if they receive a vote < 3~4. You're called a "troll" if you do not leave that comment. But if you leave a comment on why you feel it deserves that low of a number, then the person receiving it may rant in the forums(or send a pm) that you don't know what you're talking about, you don't have enough experience, you don't understand the technicals, you didn't read the mind of the photographer correctly, etc etc. I think this is why so many decide not to leave a comment. Even if some cannot see it, there is a little bit of a tribe mentality here on this site - many cliques. If you piss off one of those "tribe" members, you might just piss off all of them. And this is why some may feel that it's not worth leaving what may appear to the photographer as constructive criticism negative feedback .

FWIW, I don't vote in challenges I enter. It allows me to vote completely free of bias and how I honestly feel towards a shot. The first one or two challenges I did vote in where I was entered, I felt that little bit of bias biting at me. I knew right then that no matter how fair I could be, it would be for the best to not do so in the future. I realize that many people here vote the same and there are those that do not. The way I see it, after a couple hundred votes, it all evens out in the end. And for those who wonder how I base my vote, I tend to hand out higher votes on shots that are unique and different, something that hasn't been done a zillion times and one that fits the challenge well without shoehorning. If you have to shoehorn, then don't submit - wait for another challenge that you know you can come up with something good.

Votes: 72
Views: 97
Avg Vote: 5.8472
Comments: 1


Sorry one very quick comment on this before I shoot of to get some Zzzzzzz's but I have to agree with you there about the comments thing, I just turned on the "Hide My Name - Hide my name on comments I make until voting is over." but I realise this is only for members so not a solution for everyone. But what is a solution is to cast your vote without a comment, then go back a few hours or a day later and leave the comment that inspired that vote, this way you have a chance for the image to grow on you and also they cannot tie the 1 / 2 / 3 vote to any single user (those that use a spreadsheet to work out the scores that is ;)
08/27/2008 09:24:45 PM · #216
Originally posted by Mark-A:



Sorry one very quick comment on this before I shoot of to get some Zzzzzzz's but I have to agree with you there about the comments thing, I just turned on the "Hide My Name - Hide my name on comments I make until voting is over." but I realise this is only for members so not a solution for everyone. But what is a solution is to cast your vote without a comment, then go back a few hours or a day later and leave the comment that inspired that vote, this way you have a chance for the image to grow on you and also they cannot tie the 1 / 2 / 3 vote to any single user (those that use a spreadsheet to work out the scores that is ;)


Alternatively, you can ignore and delete PMs that come in from angry people. Or respond politely to them and *then* ignore and delete them. heh.

That's what I'm doing.
08/27/2008 09:27:39 PM · #217
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by Mark-A:



Sorry one very quick comment on this before I shoot of to get some Zzzzzzz's but I have to agree with you there about the comments thing, I just turned on the "Hide My Name - Hide my name on comments I make until voting is over." but I realise this is only for members so not a solution for everyone. But what is a solution is to cast your vote without a comment, then go back a few hours or a day later and leave the comment that inspired that vote, this way you have a chance for the image to grow on you and also they cannot tie the 1 / 2 / 3 vote to any single user (those that use a spreadsheet to work out the scores that is ;)


Alternatively, you can ignore and delete PMs that come in from angry people. Or respond politely to them and *then* ignore and delete them. heh.

That's what I'm doing.


Or tell on them. >:D
08/27/2008 09:29:06 PM · #218
Prash here is the way I see it, the best "How I vote" criteria on this site I believe comes from zeuszen:

Originally posted by zeuszen:

(From previous threads)

This is how I try (very hard) to vote

1 > a technically (focus, exposure, balance, effects, lighting, sharpening, saturation, colour, cast, evidence of artifacts etc.) incompetent photo or an entirely unintelligible one (sometimes due to image size), an 'offensive' one to civilized nature or (even) a technically apt photo which 'clearly' demonstrates a 'failure of feeling'

2 > a technically lacking photo with little or no perceptible artistic (choice of subject, composition, perspective, manner, emotional energy and range, etc.) merit or interest, even when generously considered; a somewhat 'offensive' photo or a gross and inappropriate sentimentalization of feeling in the context of the challenge; the pursuit of cliché without room for even a latent interpretation (irony, allegory, metaphor etc.)

3 > a photo of mixed or questionable merit, both artistically and technically; a technically 'acceptable' one without marked artistic or journalistic interest; a sentimental or symptomatically 'commercialized' image designed to 'sell' a product or (worse! -of a person) of reasonable or considerable technical merit; a potentially 'interesting' or 'promising' photo (subject matter/perspective) with 'severe' technical flaws and/or without 'clear' intent or direction; a technically flawless image void of emotion and lacking sensory stimuli

4 > a 'pretty' photo reminiscent of many; an otherwise captivating image with one or more clearly distracting elements, either within the capture itself or via border and/or title; a technically accomplished photo relying predominantly on an idea, subject and/or title for impact; an artistically 'promising' capture with clearly noticeable technical defects, compositional issues or incongruous aesthetics; a technically 'stunning' capture otherwise bare of 'feeling' or aesthetic 'sense'

5 > a 'good' photo by most standards; one that communicates capably without necessarily teaching or exhilarating us; an artistically interesting photo pointing an unusual view, perspective or matter, even if it suffers from distinct technical 'flaws'; a technically 'stunning' capture with limiting human or artistic 'range'

6 > a remarkable image, well executed by most standards while allowing for some technical shortcomings not easily prevented or corrected; an ordinary or simple shot, perfectly timed or 'found' that tells an old story in a new way; a very personal take, a 'fresh' controversy with commotive qualities, but aesthetically 'exciting'; an image imitative within a 'classic' fashion, but well executed (i.e. landscape/portrait etc.)

7 > an outstanding photograph fit for both study and pleasure, while allowing for minor technical shortcomings, an accomplished imitation of a mode of seeing or rendering drawn or alluding to another medium including enduring snapshots or candids of remarkable human interest

8 > same as 7, but one that stimulates awareness and taxes the senses, technically accomplished, with near-imperceptible flaws, if not entirely flawless; clearly 'innovative' photographs pointing a little known interest, direction or delight

9 > same as 8, technically without a fault, but a photo which commotes 'perceived' reality to the point of restlessness and action

10 > an enduring photo that challenges the order of gods and the world, one holding its own alongside any other.

On (Challenge) Topicality

Limiting potentially immeasurable choices to a defined subject or a chosen category of photography, really, should stimulate creativity, not hamper it. Topics, IMO, are or should be there for the benefit of the photographer, not for the untaxed glee of some voters swinging a bat.

I do not penalize entries for failing to meet the challenge. I may award a higher score to a unique interpretation or to a finesse I recognize, but I cannot, in good conscience, penalize something or someone for a fault that may lie within me and not with a picture.

I have seen and continue to see perfectly good photographs here penalized for exceeding the appreciative capacity of voters to recognize an entry for the poignant topicality it may demonstrate. If I consider the photo remarkable (artistically very interesting), I may just decide to award the highest mark possible in the faint hope to compensate for a predictably overall devaluation.


In my mind when he votes an image a 5 it might as well be a 10 by site standards but he has earned my deepest respect by showing discipline and consistency in his method. He also has a portfolio full of art so you can see where he is coming from. Same goes for our friend violinist123.

Me? I use more of the scale but I try to stay disciplined and fair when voting on the images in front of me. Welcome and be true to you.

Message edited by author 2008-08-27 21:34:24.
08/27/2008 09:44:53 PM · #219
I really like lookin at all these images and I am having so much fun trying to guess what they are (most of them anyways hehe)

You have rated 165 of 317 images (52%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 41 of 317 images (13%) in this challenge.

You have given an average score of 6.0121.

on the other hand I am sitting at a 4.2-misery!!
08/27/2008 09:59:03 PM · #220
Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by ryand:


Oh I don't really care about the score all that much, but it is fun to score well, I'm mostly frustrated that I entered a shot that I don't even like.


I'm mostly frustrated that I entered a shot that I really liked, worked hard on getting the lighting how I wanted it and no-one else likes it lol - Dropped .12 in the last 9 votes and gone from 5.02 to 4.88 those scores are like DNMC scores bl**dy voters ;)


Out of curiousity, what's your minimum vote on a shot that meets the challenge but may not be a good pic?
08/27/2008 10:01:50 PM · #221
Originally posted by Sugarpie:

I really like lookin at all these images and I am having so much fun trying to guess what they are (most of them anyways hehe)

You have rated 165 of 317 images (52%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 41 of 317 images (13%) in this challenge.

You have given an average score of 6.0121.

on the other hand I am sitting at a 4.2-misery!!


Mine's not much better at the moment. I don't think a single person will have guessed what my photo is of hehehe.
08/27/2008 10:23:25 PM · #222
Votes: 67
Views: 95
Avg Vote: 5.2687
Comments: 1
Favorites: 1
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 08/27/08 10:18 pm

Made a slow climb all day... and even got a Fav :)
08/27/2008 10:26:52 PM · #223
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Jaker:


Votes: 74
Views: 111
Avg Vote: 6.2432
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 08/27/08 08:55 pm

Nice score you've got going there. :-)


Thank you, but voting is still pretty early on. Just dropped to a 6.19 something in the last hour! lol
08/27/2008 10:28:01 PM · #224
Looks like I have a bunch of company in this range...

Votes: 71
Views: 97
Avg Vote: 4.3239
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
08/27/2008 10:40:34 PM · #225
Originally posted by lemeryj:

Out of curiousity, what's your minimum vote on a shot that meets the challenge but may not be a good pic?

1.
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