ABSTRACT SCORES shared in Black & White

08/29/2008 03:04:50 PM · #276

Originally posted by Techo:

Originally posted by Prash:
....
Appreciate you not pulling out from the contest, you are setting the right example for a newbie like me. I hate to see guys, esp. senior ones with awards and all, pulling out, and that makes me wonder how they have kept their avg so high. Funny, and easy, innit? Just pull out if you dont feel you are getting the right votes.. heh.

You're penalized for pulling shots for just the reason of a low score. If by chance you get another DQ in the next 10 challenges you're cut off from entering for two weeks. I don't think the idea you have of self pulling shots can be abused to keep a high avg. Especially if you want to continue to participate here and have loads of challenges under your belt.

Yes that would make sense.

But then again, reading another response, it does seem people would do that on purpose (bail out).

08/29/2008 03:17:18 PM · #277

Originally posted by Prash:

Touching the century line:

Votes Received: 100
Avg Vote Received: 4.3900
Comments:
Made: 28
Helpful: 21
Received: 2
Helpful: 2

Still going good (from my expectations). I also saw 2 dropouts since yesterday. I think we started at 318.. now only 316 in the run.

I think one pic may have actually been disqualified. I looked at one on the first day of voting that clearly had very advanced editing/altering and I figured it would probably be forcibly removed. Seems that it has.

I would never personally drop out of the running no matter how low my score was, if I did that every time I got a low average, I'd never really learn anything. I joined the site for tips and to get better, not to have my ego stoked.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/29/2008 03:20:25 PM · #278

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by levyj413:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
Now if the comment had read... "I do not think the lack of focus was beneficial to the shot" or "I do not like your choice of focus" or anything really beyond the face observation "out of focus". Then it would have some merit.

I think the fact that the person told you it was out of focus is also telling you he/she didn't think it was beneficial to the shot and that he/she didn't like your choice. If he/she loved your choice of focus, I'm sure that's what the comment would've been.

Just expand your reading of comments like that a wee bit and you'll get something useful out of most comments.

I disagree. I don't think that was the point at all. Like I said in my original post, I liken it to saying "black and white" to a photo that is black and white. Just making a point blank statement on something obvious does not make a comment useful.

Another person said they liked the theme but the technicals weren't there. To me that has merit. That's why I didn't mention the comment at all. I like that my shot isn't "technically" correct, but they didn't. That's fine. I don't get mad when people don't like my shots.

The point is I want a comment that is more than just an observation. That is the point of a comment. Not just that you have eyes to see a photo, but that you are actually registering what is there and making a comment on your unique view. Anyone could tell me it is out of focus. Why bother posting it on a photography web site to find that out?

I moved down to a 3.9 and got a 4th comment that reads "OUT OF FOCUS!!!!!!"

I wonder if that's coincidence or someone disagreeing with my assessment of it being a MEANINGLESS COMMENT.

I think I am finally done with this web site. Once I reached a certain point with my work it has now only served to hold me back and have me confining my artistic vision. Maybe I should spend my energy trying to get into a gallery as opposed to trying to impress a bunch of people with little to no sense of what makes art. And I'm not just talking about my piece. It's not that great, I know that. But shot after shot I see here that goes passed over, unnoticed, that is brilliant. And the wonderful efforts of

posthumous and those like him who participate in the forum for underrated shots are great but not enough to make me think this is worthwhile any more.

ETA: i think this site is great for certain kinds of photographers. if you want to make stock photos, this is the site for you. Landscapes, great. Lots of amazing landscapes end up on the front page. But for the rest of us who don't shoot all glossy colors and "pop" and feathers and apples. It's only good to a certain point.

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 15:24:47.

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

08/29/2008 03:38:56 PM · #279

Sorry you are pissed OZ and I totally understand. I sure would miss your stuff if you split. Screw the narrow minded haters they don't know shit and it shows. Let it run off your back and know that they will never have what you got. Stay strong sister!

The Wazz

:-)

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 15:42:10.

lemeryj

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/29/2008 04:13:36 PM · #280

Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

08/29/2008 04:13:54 PM · #281

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Prash:

Appreciate you not pulling out from the contest, you are setting the right example for a newbie like me. I hate to see guys, esp. senior ones with awards and all, pulling out, and that makes me wonder how they have kept their avg so high. Funny, and easy, innit? Just pull out if you dont feel you are getting the right votes.. heh.

If you want to ride the plane into the ground, stay strapped in. Some people prefer to bail out. If there was anything wrong with the latter, there wouldn't be parachutes within arm's reach.

Oh come on now.. you are comparing apples to oranges!

This isnt a life threating situation.. this is a community where we are supposed to share and learn. Thats what I dont understand, why take it so seriously?

It;s not called dplearning.com is it? It's a contest, people care about the scores. Even being a vocal contributor for about a millisecond in the grand scheme of things, I would not think this would be such a difficult concept to grasp.

surfinbird

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

08/29/2008 04:16:40 PM · #282

The fact that this thread exists is evidence that people are interested in the scores. Both those who read this forum post and those that contribute. True or false?

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 16:17:18.

Molly

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/29/2008 04:33:20 PM · #283

Originally posted by lemeryj:

Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

LOL!! Every one of my comments (4) mention the misfortune of my shot being out of focus!! It really is a bad shot and apparently very recognizable.
Guess I should have read up on the definition of Abstract.. I deserve all the comments I'm getting! I'm doing a fabulous job knocking down my already mediocre average!! Oh well! Live and learn!

bob350

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

08/29/2008 05:25:02 PM · #284

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Prash:

Appreciate you not pulling out from the contest, you are setting the right example for a newbie like me. I hate to see guys, esp. senior ones with awards and all, pulling out, and that makes me wonder how they have kept their avg so high. Funny, and easy, innit? Just pull out if you dont feel you are getting the right votes.. heh.

If you want to ride the plane into the ground, stay strapped in. Some people prefer to bail out. If there was anything wrong with the latter, there wouldn't be parachutes within arm's reach.

Oh come on now.. you are comparing apples to oranges!

This isnt a life threating situation.. this is a community where we are supposed to share and learn. Thats what I dont understand, why take it so seriously?

It;s not called dplearning.com is it? It's a contest, people care about the scores. Even being a vocal contributor for about a millisecond in the grand scheme of things, I would not think this would be such a difficult concept to grasp.

Actually, the history of how dpchallenge came into existence (see "About" under "Help") indicates this is not strictly an either/or situation:

"DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed."

I find no conflict between learning how to be a better photographer and entering a challenge that can help me get there. The challenges often lure me into trying subjects and approaches I might not have tied otherwise, and the multiple types of feedback (vote distributrion, average scores, comments, maybe eventually a ribbon?), each can be valuable. I don't need scores to know I am not the top photographer visiting the site. Actually, there is a kind of satisfaction in participating even when my role seems to be to help make the really excellent images look better by comparison. But I do enjoy participating, and the comments confirm that (at least some) people enjoy (at least some of) my images.

Only three ribbon winners per challenge, but at the same time potentially hundreds of participants winning valuable insights/advice, and reaping the rewards of participating in a friendly community with shared interests.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/29/2008 05:41:33 PM · #285

Originally posted by bob350:

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Prash:

Originally posted by violinist123:

Originally posted by Prash:

Appreciate you not pulling out from the contest, you are setting the right example for a newbie like me. I hate to see guys, esp. senior ones with awards and all, pulling out, and that makes me wonder how they have kept their avg so high. Funny, and easy, innit? Just pull out if you dont feel you are getting the right votes.. heh.

If you want to ride the plane into the ground, stay strapped in. Some people prefer to bail out. If there was anything wrong with the latter, there wouldn't be parachutes within arm's reach.

Oh come on now.. you are comparing apples to oranges!

This isnt a life threating situation.. this is a community where we are supposed to share and learn. Thats what I dont understand, why take it so seriously?

It;s not called dplearning.com is it? It's a contest, people care about the scores. Even being a vocal contributor for about a millisecond in the grand scheme of things, I would not think this would be such a difficult concept to grasp.

Actually, the history of how dpchallenge came into existence (see "About" under "Help") indicates this is not strictly an either/or situation:

"DPChallenge was created in January 2002 by two friends, Drew Ungvarsky (drewmedia) and Langdon Oliver (langdon). The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week. The idea quickly took off and became much more in the months that followed."

I find no conflict between learning how to be a better photographer and entering a challenge that can help me get there. The challenges often lure me into trying subjects and approaches I might not have tied otherwise, and the multiple types of feedback (vote distributrion, average scores, comments, maybe eventually a ribbon?), each can be valuable. I don't need scores to know I am not the top photographer visiting the site. Actually, there is a kind of satisfaction in participating even when my role seems to be to help make the really excellent images look better by comparison. But I do enjoy participating, and the comments confirm that (at least some) people enjoy (at least some of) my images.

Only three ribbon winners per challenge, but at the same time potentially hundreds of participants winning valuable insights/advice, and reaping the rewards of participating in a friendly community with shared interests.

Right on.

Just because it is a challenge, we dont need to make it a war zone. It can still be a learning experience IMO.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

08/29/2008 05:44:32 PM · #286

Votes: 114
Views: 155
Avg Vote: 5.0000
Comments: 1

Finally back to 5.

I agree we are all here to learn but with this challenge I don't think we are going to learn anything other than the dozens of ways to interpret "abstract". True, the entries still have to be photographic but judging from the small number comments I'd say that people are just going with either "I like it" or "I don't like" in the end.

Oh well. When my "plane" crashes I hope I'm at least not at the bottom of the stack.

08/29/2008 05:50:30 PM · #287

Originally posted by Citadel:

Do'nt worry, I will be waiting on the ground before you:-)

Votes Received: 105
Avg Vote Received: 4.4000

I just wish there were more comments made.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/29/2008 06:16:49 PM · #288

Originally posted by lemeryj:

Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

I agree with that to an extent but I also think there is attractive OOF and unattractive OOF. Sometimes a lack of focus or a very soft focus can positively affect a photo; sometimes, it looks like a big blurry mess. This is the case with all categories in fact, so it's bound to factor into the abstract category too somewhat.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

08/29/2008 06:21:35 PM · #289

Originally posted by bob350:

Actually, the history of how dpchallenge came into existence (see "About" under "Help") indicates this is not strictly an either/or situation:

Which has nothing to do with someone finding fault with people who choose to self dq an image to protect their average.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/29/2008 06:23:04 PM · #290

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by lemeryj:
Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

I agree with that to an extent but I also think there is attractive OOF and unattractive OOF. Sometimes a lack of focus or a very soft focus can positively affect a photo; sometimes, it looks like a big blurry mess. This is the case with all categories in fact, so it's bound to factor into the abstract category too somewhat.

Maybe we need another one like this.

Edit because I think faster than I type.

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 21:39:16.

08/29/2008 06:44:04 PM · #291

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Well I can't speak for anyone else. But it my case I made a clear choice. I had a version in focus and it felt empty... And I feel confident in my photo that the 2 that mentioned the out of focus were not very experienced photographers, and the one 10 vote I got was from an opinion I trust. Not to point out or condemn the 2 that commented. With a score of 3.9 I think they just happened to be the 2 that mentioned what the rest were thinking.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/29/2008 06:49:34 PM · #292

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

I dunno. I'm an addict. I don't know if I can quit cold turkey. hehe. What I really need to do though is like I said... concentrate more on the things that matter, like paying work, my art, getting into galleries (if that is what I want to do... not sure). I just get too stuck on obsessing about this site and the challenges going on that it has kind of stunted me. There are some great people on here too. So... yea. I'll still be around. I just got a little excited and dramatic. I just keep wishing things will change and they won't. We're still going to see mostly gimmicky stuff on the front page and the true art shoved off where no one will see it.

ETA: I need to start commenting again. I got so disenchanted with it all that I stopped commenting. And that's just silly! So watch out. I'm coming and doing my rounds of overly wordy and often foot-in-mouth comments. ;)

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 18:51:19.

Mark-A

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

08/29/2008 07:00:08 PM · #293

Originally posted by escapetooz:

ETA: I need to start commenting again. I got so disenchanted with it all that I stopped commenting. And that's just silly! So watch out. I'm coming and doing my rounds of overly wordy and often foot-in-mouth comments. ;)

Looking at the work in your portfolio your comments good or bad would be greatly appreciated at the very least by me :)

08/29/2008 07:01:46 PM · #294

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by lemeryj:
Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

I agree with that to an extent but I also think there is attractive OOF and unattractive OOF. Sometimes a lack of focus or a very soft focus can positively affect a photo; sometimes, it looks like a big blurry mess. This is the case with all categories in fact, so it's bound to factor into the abstract category too somewhat.

Well I can't speak for anyone else. But it my case I made a clear choice. I had a version in focus and it felt empty... And I feel confident in my photo that the 2 that mentioned the out of focus were not very experienced photographers, and the one 10 vote I got was from an opinion I trust. Not to point out or condemn the 2 that commented. With a score of 3.9 I think they just happened to be the 2 that mentioned what the rest were thinking.

If your photo feels more meaningful to you being OOF then that's something right? Remember, no-one is saying you're a bad photographer, just pointing out something they don't care for in one of your pictures. You can't please everyone.

08/29/2008 07:07:49 PM · #295

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Those are (for the most part) examples of attractive OOF, in my humble opinion. Hmm maybe some of the reeeally inexperienced people can't tell the difference between intended OOF and accidental OOF. That could make or break some folk's averages, I think.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

08/29/2008 07:08:25 PM · #296

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by lemeryj:
Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

I agree with that to an extent but I also think there is attractive OOF and unattractive OOF. Sometimes a lack of focus or a very soft focus can positively affect a photo; sometimes, it looks like a big blurry mess. This is the case with all categories in fact, so it's bound to factor into the abstract category too somewhat.

Well I can't speak for anyone else. But it my case I made a clear choice. I had a version in focus and it felt empty... And I feel confident in my photo that the 2 that mentioned the out of focus were not very experienced photographers, and the one 10 vote I got was from an opinion I trust. Not to point out or condemn the 2 that commented. With a score of 3.9 I think they just happened to be the 2 that mentioned what the rest were thinking.

If your photo feels more meaningful to you being OOF then that's something right? Remember, no-one is saying you're a bad photographer, just pointing out something they don't care for in one of your pictures. You can't please everyone.

Yes but apparently (with a 3.9) I'm not pleasing much of anyone but the one nice commenter. LOL. ;)

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

08/29/2008 07:08:53 PM · #297

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I just get too stuck on obsessing about this site and the challenges going on that it has kind of stunted me.

DPC scores are a game. If you want to score highly in a sport, or move up the professional ladder, or succeed according to commonly-accepted definitions in anything, you learn how to play. Not just the rules, but both offensive and defensive strategies. In DPC terms, that means doing things like having good focus and composition, and staying away from radical imagery.

If you don't care, shoot whatever floats your boat! Just don't then assume the majority of voters are idiots or "don't get it" or whatever. You're choosing to swim against the tide, but that doesn't make the tide wrong in some objective way. And it doesn't mean the people who like your shot are "nice" while the others are "mean."

I'd bet most art ,of any type, is only loved by a small percentage of the public overall. So it's not like DPC is unusual.

For me, sometimes I shoot stuff I know DPC will like (gelatin glasses), and sometimes I have an idea I just want to share. For the latter images, I enter for the comments (and faves if any come). But I always shoot stuff I like (yes, it's okay to like both the same stuff DPC tends to prefer and more artsy stuff). And sometimes, oh, those magic sometimes, the artsy stuff aligns with what DPC likes.

Just be happy that out of 300+ abstract entries, there are very few "typical" DPC shots.

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 19:09:45.

08/29/2008 07:37:30 PM · #298

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by LadyTara:

Originally posted by lemeryj:
Odd to get an "out of focus" commment on an abstract challenge, imo

I agree with that to an extent but I also think there is attractive OOF and unattractive OOF. Sometimes a lack of focus or a very soft focus can positively affect a photo; sometimes, it looks like a big blurry mess. This is the case with all categories in fact, so it's bound to factor into the abstract category too somewhat.

Well I can't speak for anyone else. But it my case I made a clear choice. I had a version in focus and it felt empty... And I feel confident in my photo that the 2 that mentioned the out of focus were not very experienced photographers, and the one 10 vote I got was from an opinion I trust. Not to point out or condemn the 2 that commented. With a score of 3.9 I think they just happened to be the 2 that mentioned what the rest were thinking.

If your photo feels more meaningful to you being OOF then that's something right? Remember, no-one is saying you're a bad photographer, just pointing out something they don't care for in one of your pictures. You can't please everyone.

Yes but apparently (with a 3.9) I'm not pleasing much of anyone but the one nice commenter. LOL. ;)

There's still a few days left, maybe your votes will improve before Tuesday. That's what I'm counting on anyways heehee.

08/29/2008 07:40:57 PM · #299

Originally posted by levyj413:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
I just get too stuck on obsessing about this site and the challenges going on that it has kind of stunted me.

DPC scores are a game. If you want to score highly in a sport, or move up the professional ladder, or succeed according to commonly-accepted definitions in anything, you learn how to play. Not just the rules, but both offensive and defensive strategies. In DPC terms, that means doing things like having good focus and composition, and staying away from radical imagery.

If you don't care, shoot whatever floats your boat! Just don't then assume the majority of voters are idiots or "don't get it" or whatever. You're choosing to swim against the tide, but that doesn't make the tide wrong in some objective way. And it doesn't mean the people who like your shot are "nice" while the others are "mean."

I'd bet most art ,of any type, is only loved by a small percentage of the public overall. So it's not like DPC is unusual.

For me, sometimes I shoot stuff I know DPC will like (gelatin glasses), and sometimes I have an idea I just want to share. For the latter images, I enter for the comments (and faves if any come). But I always shoot stuff I like (yes, it's okay to like both the same stuff DPC tends to prefer and more artsy stuff). And sometimes, oh, those magic sometimes, the artsy stuff aligns with what DPC likes.

Just be happy that out of 300+ abstract entries, there are very few "typical" DPC shots.

Well hey. I agree in a way, but then again this site is not just supposed to be about sport. It's about learning and growing and for some, appreciating the art of others. And I don't think I called the commenters "mean" or idiots for that matter and if I did I shouldn't have. I did call the one "nice" but I meant that more as referencing which commenter I was referring from before as opposed to saying they are "nice" because they liked my shot. I would love someone to challenge my shot and give me something constructive, something I cannot see with my own eyes like focus. Like for example, I'm not even sure if by the most strict definition my shot is even abstract. But no one has commented on that.