More London security grief - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

03/27/2008 02:56:06 PM · #1

I'm just back from Central London shooting for Sunday's curves challenge. To cut a long story short I was down by the Thames (don't want to give exact location because it'll blow my cover for the entry). I had my tripod open and was shooting my subject when a private security guy came over, who told me it was private property and I wasn't allowed to use a tripod. Photography was allowed, just not with tripods.

So, I was a bit taken aback - it's a VERY public area, tourists with cameras everywhere and no-one was stopping them because they didn't have tripods ("L" series IS lenses, but no tripods). I had the fisheye on, so it wasn't even an offensive looking lens. At this point his boss came over and a couple more heavies - because I was very politely and calmly arguing my point that a tripod isn't a threat to national security, or makes me a terrorist suspect.

The head security guy explained to me that the reason for no tripods is because THEY CHARGE FOR COMMERCIAL PHOTOGRAPHY - and according to their (somewhat retarded) logic, a tripod is an indicator of a professional (!). So I wasn't allowed to use a tripod on their private property unless I paid.

So they weren't stopping me because of any security issues - it was purely commercially driven from a completely stupid/old fashioned/backwards view of commercial photography equipment.

In the end I showed my student card and they gave me 15 minutes to take my photos and then leave.

So, the lesson to share is that if you're out and about and are on private property (public access private property that is), use image stabilisation if you have it and pretend to be foreign.

N

Eyesup

Nikon D300

03/27/2008 03:00:47 PM · #2

Wow!! I can't belieive that!.. well chalk that up to reason #538 why I'm so thankful I live in Canada :)

glad you got your shot though

03/27/2008 03:05:05 PM · #3

that's pretty common. Try using a tripod near the Louvre in Paris and you'll find out :)

JaimeVinas

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

03/27/2008 03:06:01 PM · #4

Originally posted by Quasimojo:

I have expertise on this. I get harassed by guards all the time. However in the US, the property owners have the right to deny you access to their property for photography. I know that some law was put in place in the 70s or 80s (I cant remember the exact year) that if building was constructed later than that date, that the property owner had the copyright to it. So they have the right to deny you to take pictures on their property, however they cannot deny you taking pictures of it on the sidewalk.

I simply get right next to the corner where their property starts and take pictures. The guards still come and they watch me like a hawk, but I smile and let them be. They are just doing their job. As long as I stay off the property they leave me alone. Some still harass me, but once they realize I know my rights, they leave me alone.

However buildings with federal offices in them (according to some guard) are not allowed. Go figure.

Message edited by author 2008-03-27 15:09:29.

pix-al

Canon EOS-5D

03/27/2008 03:06:02 PM · #5

Madness...

Add another leg to your tripod (Cable tie a monopod on to it or something). They can't tell you not to use it then as it would not be a tripod!

Or - Make your own tripod out of old broom sticks. You couldn't possibly be a pro with a DIY knock up like that!

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

03/27/2008 03:06:56 PM · #6

Nick, I was leafing through this weeks Amateur Photographer magazine while I was at tescos and skimmed an interesting article on police/CSWs and photographers in the capital- you might be interested.

Kamlan 28mm F1.4 MF for APS-C

03/27/2008 03:07:59 PM · #7

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

However buildings with federal offices in them (according to some guard) are not allowed. Go figure.

I've heard that too (again according to some guard). He even threatened me with arrest for shooting in a square in Savannah that was near a court building.

Anyone know if that is actually the law at all in the US ? I didn't really like to push it because I could well be deported before it came to any sort of trial.

//www.popphoto.com/popularphotographyfeatures/2668/the-war-on-photographers.html?print_page=y
For similar stories (including another threat of deportation)

Message edited by author 2008-03-27 15:15:12.

Manic

DJI Mini 3 Pro

03/27/2008 03:11:53 PM · #8

If this was perhaps near something sponsored by British Airways, then I know what you mean. There's a particular tree-lined part of that area that is privately owned, which is why they can hassle you. If you're on the road or the riverside path, that's the public land. However, I've found that the owners are happy to have photographers there for non-commercial reasons if you contact them beforehand, but you'll have to convince the security guys each and every time that you're legit.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

03/27/2008 03:39:14 PM · #9

Originally posted by Eyesup:

Wow!! I can't belieive that!.. well chalk that up to reason #538 why I'm so thankful I live in Canada :).......

Canada can suck ass too.

I was told NO PHOTOS while I was trying to do a re-take of this shot. The reason, 1)Private property 2)I could be a terrorist. I wasn't using a tripod.

I was told NO PHOTOS after taking this shot on a pocket tripod with my P&S camera. The reason, it was suspicious activity, and I could be a terrorist.

Message edited by author 2008-03-27 15:40:11.

Photologist

Apple iPhone 16 Pro Max

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/27/2008 03:46:04 PM · #10

That's common. I've been to many places where a tripod was forbidden for that exact reason ("it looks professional"). If you were actually on private property, then the property owners can make up any rule they wish, unfortunately.

Was there any way you could go back a few steps and be on public property, and then continue your shooting?

citymars

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/27/2008 03:48:26 PM · #11

Nick, as Gordon said, this is pretty common. Here in NYC it's true in Grand Central, true outdoors at Lincoln Center, and even true I found at a local seminary with a beautiful "close." It's okay to take photos, just not sharp ones!

I've been told that a monopod is better than a tripod in these situations, but I haven't tested that theory.

JaimeVinas

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

03/27/2008 04:09:56 PM · #12

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Eyesup:
Wow!! I can't belieive that!.. well chalk that up to reason #538 why I'm so thankful I live in Canada :).......

Canada can suck ass too.

I was told NO PHOTOS while I was trying to do a re-take of this shot. The reason, 1)Private property 2)I could be a terrorist. I wasn't using a tripod.

I was told NO PHOTOS after taking this shot on a pocket tripod with my P&S camera. The reason, it was suspicious activity, and I could be a terrorist.

Slippy...those guards just knew who you were. I mean, If I saw slippy around my neighborhood I would worry a bit.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

03/27/2008 04:16:50 PM · #13

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Ya, but that's in Toronto. ;oP

--- it can happen anywhere. I had a guard indicate that no pictures were aloud of anything on the property. No mention of taking pictures from the property of something else though.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

03/27/2008 06:01:19 PM · #14

I would think a better reason is that a tripod could impede movement or foot traffic or something. :/

neophyte

Nikon D810

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/27/2008 06:29:31 PM · #15

INAH (Their national parks service) in Mexico charges about ten times more for admission to their ancient ruin sites if you've have a tripod. Because they think you're going to sell the photos. It works out to almost $30 at most of them.

Nuzzer

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/27/2008 07:01:48 PM · #16

Originally posted by Manic:

I got the same thing near that same London landmark when I was there last.

Quasimojo

Canon EOS-30D

Kamlan 28mm F1.4 MF for APS-C

03/27/2008 11:02:23 PM · #17

Originally posted by SaraR:

Nick, I was leafing through this weeks Amateur Photographer magazine while I was at tescos and skimmed an interesting article on police/CSWs and photographers in the capital- you might be interested.

Thanks - and I have a copy of the UK Photographers Rights on me (along with my stop and search copies) but I'll get a copy of AP this week. The issue is that in so many situations right or wrong doesn't seem to make any difference when you're out manned/gunned/shouted by authority (i.e. it's just not worth the fight, but when it happens almost every shoot it's really annoying).

Manic - It wasn't the London Eye...I'm not that desperate for subject matter just yet :) The management company were called MoreLondon if you know of them?

I think it's at the point where asking for permission well in advance of shooting anything vaguely public or public service is necessary, so for those train shots just ask the station manager first. I know it shouldn't be this way but it's either that or get continual hassle on most shoots...

N

Manic

DJI Mini 3 Pro

03/28/2008 09:13:40 AM · #18

Originally posted by Quasimojo:

The management company were called MoreLondon if you know of them?

I believe I contacted them along with the management company for the other location, back when I was organising a GTG in that area. Their rules are a little stricter, and I had to get a 'media permit' issued by them before they'd allow the group of us to shoot. However, we actually turned up well after the area's building were closed, so the security guards didn't bother leave their desk nor let us in to get the pass...

Yeah, it sucks that you have to get permission or get hassled, but on private land it's their rules. Getting hassled in public areas is totally different though, and should be resisted (or at least rigorously objected to) as much as possible.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

03/28/2008 09:25:22 AM · #19

you could also maybe write to Austin Mitchell, or get your own MP to support his bill. Letters always seem to do better with MPs than emails or faxes.

//curly15.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/austin-mitchell-mp-supports-photographers/

Spork99

OM System OM-1

03/28/2008 09:28:28 AM · #20

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
However buildings with federal offices in them (according to some guard) are not allowed. Go figure.

I've heard that too (again according to some guard). He even threatened me with arrest for shooting in a square in Savannah that was near a court building.

Anyone know if that is actually the law at all in the US ? I didn't really like to push it because I could well be deported before it came to any sort of trial.

//www.popphoto.com/popularphotographyfeatures/2668/the-war-on-photographers.html?print_page=y
For similar stories (including another threat of deportation)

I know that photographing military bases and some Federal buildings is indeed illegal.

However, I would not take the word of some rent-a-cop in any specific instance.

Eyesup

Nikon D300

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

03/28/2008 09:29:28 AM · #21

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Stop wearing those "I'm on the bomb squad" t-shirt when you're taking photos :) I always new that would get you in trouble...lol

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

03/28/2008 10:00:27 AM · #22

Originally posted by Gordon:

that's pretty common. Try using a tripod near the Louvre in Paris and you'll find out :)

Or try to walk into Versailles with a model in a tutu, that's fun too. But unexpectedly for a Frenchman (they are quite nice actually) the guard said no but still tried to call his boss if he could make an exception for us. :))))

Louvre was not really a problem, but it rained:

I guess the guards in London were simply bored.

Falc

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

03/28/2008 02:19:40 PM · #23

Early Day Motion 1155 - Photography in Public Places

UK photographer - write to your MP and ask them to support this NOW!!