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02/24/2004 12:17:46 AM · #1 |
i have shot several photographs of my ex-girlfriend while we were together.. and surely she loved them... but we had a horrific breaking up process and we dont talk to eachother anymore... i see those pictures as my artwork and uploaded them to my portfolio someone told her that her pictures were on the net and she sent me an e-mail requesting me to remove them from my portfolio... now i am very upset about this.. and what is the legal boundaries surrounding this issue... are these considered my artwork? can i still keep them even she dont want me to? what should i do? i am confused...i would appreciate any input on this matter greatly....
THE PICTURES HAVE BEEN REMOVED AS OF 10.59 MOUNTAIN TIME...
Message edited by author 2004-02-24 00:55:32. |
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02/24/2004 12:23:46 AM · #2 |
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02/24/2004 12:25:41 AM · #3 |
If she did not sign a release I think you have to obey her wishes :(
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02/24/2004 12:25:46 AM · #4 |
| Just my thoughts, I really know nothing of the legal ramifications here, but if she was not aware that these pictures were going to be posted on the web I would say that the "right" thing to do would be to take them down. A persons right to privacy is so important, and this is a very public place. Now if she was a model and knew this going into it, then I guess it would be a different story. The pictures are very nice, very moody and I see nothing wrong with them at all, but as a woman, I think you should respect her wishes (even if they might be out of spite) But, like I stated earlier, these are just my views on the subject. I hope you all can come to an agreement, cause I'd hate for you to lose something that expressive when it comes to your art. :) |
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02/24/2004 12:30:30 AM · #5 |
You can keep them but you probably can't use them "commercially" since you obviously don't have/won't get a model release.
Out of ordinary human respect and decency, I would remove them from a place they are publicly accessible, although I'd probably think it OK for you to use them in your personal (printed) portfolio to show people.
I suspect any possible advantage you'd gain from their use would be far outweighed by the "bad vibe" aspect of the situation, not to mention the every-present threat of litigation (or vigilantism). If it was a horrible breakup, and you are not seeking further vengence, then you should probably let it go .... |
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02/24/2004 12:36:45 AM · #6 |
| I agree, the problems in keeping them posted are far worse than any gains you'll see. You have a good eye and technique. I'd guess real soon you'll take some new shots that will make you forget all about these. Save them, but take them down. |
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02/24/2004 12:40:22 AM · #7 |
I'd take them down. I don't think there's anything legally she could do to get you to take them down unless you do things to them that she could say were obscene or in some way defames her, it's just the right thing to do if she doesn't want them there. And Paul is right. You can't use them commercially without a release.
Sounds like you only put them up after the breakup? Why not before? Why now? |
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02/24/2004 12:41:37 AM · #8 |
| Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned... |
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02/24/2004 12:43:08 AM · #9 |
| If you feel like lashing out at her you could replace them with another woman's pictures in the same place. But best idea is prolly just to pull them and move on. |
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02/24/2004 12:44:13 AM · #10 |
| i broke up with her about 8-9 months ago and i am only about 20 days old member here... so posting these pictures here before we broke up defies space and time.... and one of her pictures that i submitted to a national photo contest was picked to be puclished in the book "spirits in the night" so i guess she cant do nothing about that because the book is scheduled to be relased at 28th of february... i will take these down i guess... but this is so childish and i am upset about this... i will tak them down about 2-3 hours form now... |
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02/24/2004 01:04:24 AM · #11 |
| I would leave them up. They are your photos and you can do with them as you please. |
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02/24/2004 01:29:48 AM · #12 |
I guess that you decided to take the pictures down. They were very good in my opinion. However, and don't quote me on this because I'm not a lawyer, you have the right to display them despite her saying take them down. As I understand it, you only need a model release if you're selling prints of her on DPC or the picture to a stock photo agency, etc. You took the picture, she knew you were taking it, the image is copyright to you.
You have the right to display it without a model release if you so choose as long as it isn't a misrepresentation meant to cause damage. For example, this would be a bad title for the photo: "She has been around the block, and is coming to a street corner near you!" You could get sued for that because it is libelous. The titles you had were neutral and only indicated a description of the photo which was being used in an non-profit artist public display. Check out this website for more info.
I guess it breaks down to a morality issue at this point, but morality lies in the eye of the beholder. I'll play the Devil's advocate. If it was my girlfriend, and it was a bad breakup, I'd keep the photos up. But then again, that's just me and as Denis Leary says, "I'm an a$$hole." |
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02/24/2004 04:26:13 AM · #13 |
Funny this should come up. Just last week on TV, on a 'know-your-law' type of programme, the same issue was discussed.
You don't say where you are, so probably you're from America which, you feel, doesn't need qualification. I'm in Japan, and the law stated was, of course, Japanese.
The photos belong to you. The second you even show them to a third party, you need permission from the model. Easy.
In the TV case, the girl was asking for them back because one of them was a bit racy. She didn't get it returned. |
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02/24/2004 05:22:13 AM · #14 |
You do not need any permision what so ever [unless] you use it for a company suggesting she works there, or in advertising suggesting she endorses a product.
Even selling a print is fine.
Do you think all those papers and tabliods that print the celebs in uncompramising situations go and get a model release from them every time? Even if they did there's no way they would sign it for half the images they print.
Same goes for everything else.
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02/24/2004 06:39:06 AM · #15 |
Ill say move to Romania :) here you can shoot anyone and anything you want without any aproovals, and do whatever you like with the pictures.
Edit to mention when I say "shoot" I don't mean like with a gun or something :)
Oh and I would die with the amount of laws you people seem to have
Message edited by author 2004-02-24 06:44:10.
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02/24/2004 08:09:12 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
I would leave them up. They are your photos and you can do with them as you please. |
In the USA things may be diferent. But here at my country your images are your if you had produced it and don´t expose or show other people in it. You can do self portraits that are 100% yours. But if I take a picture from other person the copyright is mine only if I have an agreement from the model. If I use it to nom-personal uses, I´m infringing model copyright. I thought the pictures are yours. To saw and review at your home, with frieds or expose in your portifólio, once this stay in your guard. But any public show of this may be an illegal attitude.
Your trouble is with the relationship. A commom mistake of trust. With your next girl, take pictures like that and remember to get a model release. Tell her that is for your photographic carreer. She will understand.
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02/24/2004 09:44:30 AM · #17 |
Well...
The first thing I would do is honor her request to remove them from the internet. I haven't seen the photos, so I don't know if she would be able to take legal action against you for displaying them in public.
Your other option would be to offer her a sum of money to get a model release so you may do with them as you please.
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02/24/2004 10:09:52 AM · #18 |
On its face, your situation sounds different than the traditional model shoot or public place photo. Your pics were probably taken in private, and between two well acquainted individuals where written, expressed or implied confidences may abound....not enough facts presented to analyze.
You've taken them down from what I gather, so the issue is moot. If you absolutely have to have them displayed, say for your livelihood, perhaps it's worth reconsidering. There are things worth fighting for in this world (a limited range IMO) and then there's the other stuff.
And take heart, they say a good compromise results in neither party being totally pleased...she's probably not happy you still have the pics, your not happy about being asked and having consenting to remove them from public display. Perhaps this is a workable compromise.
Message edited by author 2004-02-24 13:15:04. |
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02/24/2004 10:30:14 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Lafaminit:
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned... |
Wise..wise words. You took the pics without any paper work so legally they're all yours, you're free to do as you will - if you're ever to make money from them it's just the moral issue of whether it's right or not. Unless the photos are suggestive [perhaps from a private session] then I would leave them up. Give in to a woman once, and you'll be giving in to them for the rest of your miserable life! ;-)
Message edited by author 2004-02-24 10:31:53. |
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02/24/2004 09:42:06 PM · #20 |
the way i understand it is-- that even tho you do retain the copyright to those images--she has the right to privacy on her side--since she didnt sign a release authorizing you to use them however you saw fit. so unfortunately, using them in any situation that could be considered commercial usage--including websites and even portfolio--although i dont know that i would sweat the portfolio so much ;)---she technically has the law on her side, were it to ever get to that point.
** btw, the tabloids and celebrity/politician stuff is considered 'news coverage', which falls under a different statute. |
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02/24/2004 10:12:02 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Do you think all those papers and tabliods that print the celebs in uncompramising situations go and get a model release from them every time? Even if they did there's no way they would sign it for half the images they print.
Same goes for everything else. |
Ahh ... but the law is different when it comes to "public figures." Private individuals are afforded a "greater expectation of privacy" than are celebrities.
Strictly speaking, I agree these belong to the photographer and legally can be posted, but I didn't think in the context of the entire situation that they should be posted. |
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02/24/2004 10:28:07 PM · #22 |
| You can use them for your portfolio use, nothing else. You only need a model release when you enter them into a contest or sell them. (prints included). Generalizing here of coarse. There are many specifics, but in general, your okay to use them in your portfolio. Make her go spend money on an attorney and find out... |
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02/24/2004 10:40:15 PM · #23 |
I wish I could see them, they sound great. Maybe there is something you can still do about it. Perhaps she was more upset that you posted them without asking her first. Is it possible for you to email her back & apoligise for putting them up without asking her first & then go about asking her if it would be okay. Can;t hurt, eh?
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