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09/26/2007 09:59:30 AM · #426 |
Originally posted by RKT:
I see the challenge themes as an inspiration, a jumping point as do many others...that's the fun of it all. Why do we need more reasons to make this place less fun? |
Because people think their photos are better or better aligned with the challenge description than those that won ribbons.........and because voters have the audacity to use their own criteria and personal tastes when voting and commenting. Imagine thatâ€Â¦..;P
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09/26/2007 10:02:51 AM · #427 |
Originally posted by RKT:
Honestly I think the idea of a DNMC check box is a little silly. I believe all my entries meet the challenge and I like to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt when voting. |
I agree with this 100%. I also believe at least 99% of people when entering also believe their picture meets the challenge. When you run into a picture that truly DNMC, it usually belongs to a non English speaking person who did not understand the meaning. I think everyone needs to just ease up on this. Vote how you want, of course, but stop trying to push your agenda on the whole site. We don't all see things the same way. |
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09/26/2007 10:05:24 AM · #428 |
I have found as of late that MANY DNMC. Take soft focus for example. It is a crap shoot with maybe 10-15 decent shots. I finally quit voting at 39% because all I was giving was 3's and 4's. Soft is soft, not blurred, tack sharp, bright, narrow DOF, etc.
Man, I'm on a roll today. I better shut up. |
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09/26/2007 10:05:32 AM · #429 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
was lesson two the one that teaches you how to put that radio box information into a database, pull that data out, perform calculations on the data, and edit every page of the site to display the result? |
Come on, man. Bash on the idea all you want but the implementation is indeed lesson two sort of devel work. |
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09/26/2007 10:11:00 AM · #430 |
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09/26/2007 10:11:13 AM · #431 |
Why not just be done with it and call it the "Troll" button?
Message edited by author 2007-09-26 10:11:27. |
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09/26/2007 10:12:18 AM · #432 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why not just be done with it and call it the "Troll" button? |
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09/26/2007 10:13:31 AM · #433 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
 |
Is there that much of the horse left?
For all the beating this horse has taken over the years, the whole horse has probably been reduced to a little piece of jerky and a bit of hair. |
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09/26/2007 10:16:22 AM · #434 |
Originally posted by Jutilda:
I have found as of late that MANY DNMC. Take soft focus for example. It is a crap shoot with maybe 10-15 decent shots. I finally quit voting at 39% because all I was giving was 3's and 4's. Soft is soft, not blurred, tack sharp, bright, narrow DOF, etc.
Man, I'm on a roll today. I better shut up. |
Maybe more coffee would help?
I feel the same. Lately, I've been just looking at all the entries first before casting the first vote. |
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09/26/2007 10:19:39 AM · #435 |
shamelessly going for more views...;) |
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09/26/2007 10:21:38 AM · #436 |
I had someone tell me an image DNMC when in fact the image was the exact definition on the word, so I feel when the DNMC button is pressed it should lead the person to the definition of the challenge and possibly a dictionary so they understand what the challenge is, after they have read the definition and press that they agree with the definition they can confirm they understand it and if they still want to DNMC the entry only then will they be allowed to give it a DNMC. If a person gives to many DNMC's they should be counseled and given a one week suspension for not understanding the challenge enough to be given the right to vote. (all said tongue in cheek, please stop the hate mail)
Or we can keep it the way it is and just have fun! |
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09/26/2007 10:22:10 AM · #437 |
Originally posted by Marjo:
shamelessly going for more views...;) |
DNMC!
The horse is not dead and no one is beating him! ;) :)) LOL! |
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09/26/2007 10:24:43 AM · #438 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
DNMC!
The horse is not dead and no one is beating him! ;) :)) LOL! |
:) |
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09/26/2007 10:35:40 AM · #439 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I had someone tell me an image DNMC when in fact the image was the exact definition on the word... |
The funny thing is that the people hitting a DNMC checkbox would very often include the same people who entered DNMC photos believing they DID meet the challenge. The SC still gets validation requests for DNMC, and it's frequently the person making the request who is wrong anyway. Also, FWIW, we seldom get more than a handful of validation requests on even the most blatant rules violations (like added text). The vast majority of voters are either unwilling or can't be bothered to request validation for an obvious rule breaker even though it's easy and anonymous.
Message edited by author 2007-09-26 10:36:58. |
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09/26/2007 10:47:49 AM · #440 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
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AH AM IN YUR FORUMM BEATIN' YER DED HORZ!
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09/26/2007 10:49:13 AM · #441 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Come on, man. Bash on the idea all you want... |
actually, i don't think i've ever bashed the checkbox idea. i've been trying to bash the "DNMC" idea in general.
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09/26/2007 11:47:58 AM · #442 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
A "secret ballot" is not the same as facing a specific accusation without the ability to respond. |
It is if the secret ballot includes voting instructions to bear the relevance of the image to the challenge topic in mind while voting. Anyone who thinks an image DNMC will score it lower.
We're just trying to encourage more people to explicitly express the DNMC opinion, and making it anonymous makes it easier to do. It's not an accusation, it's a perception.
FWIW, I'm NOT inb favor of having this feature change the scoring in any way; I think the idea of "15% or more DNMC = DQ" or whatever the scheme was; I think that's ridiculous and subject to abuse. I just think the DATA would be good to have.
R.
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09/26/2007 01:57:07 PM · #443 |
Grab some popcorn this turned out to be a novel.
It seems most in this thread don't care about a meeting a challenge theme and it's details. They seem to want to have a free for all/Free Study style contests. Or they are just happy to let voters just rate the photos individually.... oh, my bad, that's called photo.net.
DPC= Da Prettiest Capture. Not Digital Photo Challenge, like I thought. Bummer.
BTW, out of my own curiosity, I had three people sit with me and look at past challenges here, none are ‘tog’s or were familiar with this site.
They didn̢۪t know the theme/challenges name, nor could they see the titles. I asked what they thought the theme was based on the relationship of the photos to each other.
Candy ll- all three got it right. Easy.
Impressionism ll- one said they all looked like old time paintings, but didn̢۪t know what to call them, two got it exactly right.
Speed ll they all thought it had something to do with movement. Close enough.
Urban Landscapes, Rural Landscapes, Fast food, all got it right.
Then I showed them Opening and Closing challenges. They had no idea as to the themes.
Opening-One thought it had something to do with liquid. He was referencing entries 1, 6, soda-beer, he reasoned that the plants 2, 8, 9 also needed liquid to survive and the Hippo was in water, liquid. I never would have thought of that. And I̢۪m very creative and open minded. The other two are still scratching their heads. Even when told of the theme, they didn̢۪t get it.
Same for Closing.
What does this prove? Maybe Nothing.
But It could mean that maybe some here have a valid concern as how photos are meeting the themes. Or how the voters are voting or what we collectively get from these stats.
The Wealth contest is over. I think the winning shot is beautiful. In the comments left I saw three that said it didn̢۪t quite meet there interpretation of wealth,
That’s fine they are entitled to have and express that, but I did not see one comment saying to the effect “hey, when I think of wealth, that’s exactly what I picture†of “Wow, I never thought of wealth like that, thanks for sharingâ€. All the votes mean from the stats I can see is that many people thought it was DPC- Da Prettiest Capture. All low scores, btw, 6.7301 for the winner. Does DNMC have any thing to do with the low scores? The world may never know.
How to tell if photos are MC or DNMC? If you even care about it, some do, some do not. Would hiding the title while voting help? While I know some here will hate that idea, I feel that one should not need copy to explain, justify or connect a visual to a given theme. See above. Because as some have said, a title can make or break an entry. Titles are valid and can enhance a photo, but I think this is a visual site not a writing challenge site. Just leave the themes name and details if applicable. I can enjoy the enhancement after the vote. I would be real curious as to how the votes would shake out. I must say I like the way photo.net does it. Aesthetics 1-7, Originality 1-7, comment if you want. Would it be too hard to try something like that here? Quality 1-10, Challenge relevance 1-10, if coding is a problem so be it. I̢۪m not entirely unhappy here. I as others would like to gain more out of this.
And to those who think restrictions limit creativity, I̢۪d venture to say they do not work in the design field. I have restrictions imposed on the design process all the time. While I̢۪ll complain about that, the converse is true; I have complained that some projects had too few restrictions. You can̢۪t sell someone a Rembrandt when they are dead set on owing a Picasso, esp. if you don̢۪t know that, or worse yet, when they do not know what they want.
Restrictions eliminate the easy answer, the run of the mill mundane solutions. It demands more creativity, the more difficult, the more CHALLENGING, and the more rewarding when you succeed.
That can be a separate contest, then it won’t be wrong to say “follow the theme†if not you'll score low, to low and your entry may even be scrubbed from this particular challenge. Don't like it, don't enter. As for the interpretations of validity of the theme argument. Define Love. Define Happy. Do you see yellow the way I see yellow? Ultimately community standards will dictate this. But rules must be in place otherwise its anarchy. You simply cannot please everyone all the time. Does this site allow images of pornography? Define porn, what is offensive to one is not always offensive to others. But the powers that be have to draw a line somewhere. As community standards and ideas change rules must change as well or the whole thing breaks down.
Ok, I̢۪m done.
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09/26/2007 02:14:20 PM · #444 |
Originally posted by studiog2:
It seems most in this thread don't care about a meeting a challenge theme and it's details. |
this is where i stopped reading |
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09/26/2007 02:21:33 PM · #445 |
Originally posted by studiog2:
It seems most in this thread don't care about a meeting a challenge theme and it's details. |
I think you need to read the whole thread cuz that is not correct. |
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09/26/2007 02:22:18 PM · #446 |
Originally posted by studiog2:
Grab some popcorn this turned out to be a novel....
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Well that's an understatement.
Whether an image meets the challenge or not is, like most things artistic, a matter of opinion. You, and everyone else voting on challenges is free to express your opinion in two ways; through your vote and through your comments. That's it.
What's not OK is seeking to impose any one (yours or otherwise) opinion regarding what meets or does not meet the challenge on everyone else. If you don't think a high scoring image meets the challenge, it should be obvious that many others did not agree with you and that's OK. If your friends don't get how it meets the challenge, so what? Obviously, the majority of voters disagree.
Message edited by author 2007-09-26 14:23:06. |
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09/26/2007 02:22:38 PM · #447 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by studiog2:
It seems most in this thread don't care about a meeting a challenge theme and it's details. |
I think you need to read the whole thread cuz that is not correct. |
It'll take more than one bag of popcorn to do that! :P
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09/26/2007 02:23:25 PM · #448 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
It'll take more than one bag of popcorn to do that! :P |
LOL :-)) |
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09/26/2007 02:23:58 PM · #449 |
I had three people sit with me and look at past newspapers... They didn̢۪t know the article's name, nor could they see the captions. I asked what they thought the editor asked for based on the relationship of the photos to each other, and they only got some of them correct! :-O
The title is an integral part of the presentation. If it wasn't meant to be there, it wouldn't be allowed at all. Removing the title of a photo often removes the context, and the the work becomes just as meaningless as stripping Stonehenge of its astronomical relationships for a sculpture contest.. It's just a circle of pretty rocks. There is no wonder or magic unless you have a hint of the architect's intent.
If you don't think a photo meets the challenge, that's fine, but complaining about the placement of a photo means that the bulk of the voters disagree with you. Good luck with that. There are plenty of beautiful photos that score poorly, but few ugly ones reach the top no matter how well they meet the challenge. Clearly, a pretty picture alone isn't enough and merely meeting the challenge is not the only goal.
Message edited by author 2007-09-26 14:26:41. |
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09/26/2007 02:54:30 PM · #450 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you don't think a photo meets the challenge, that's fine, but complaining about the placement of a photo means that the bulk of the voters disagree with you. Good luck with that. There are plenty of beautiful photos that score poorly, but few ugly ones reach the top no matter how well they meet the challenge. Clearly, a pretty picture alone isn't enough and merely meeting the challenge is not the only goal. |
"...the placement of a photo means that the bulk of the voters disagree with you"
You can not tell that from the available data. You are assuming people are voting under the guidelines set forth in rules of this site.
How do we know people are doing that?
How does anyone know how people are voting? Where is the data?
Regardless of their interpretation, are they considering the theme at all? How do we know?
The voting page simply says to rate this from good to bad. In a free study that is that is needed, imo. But if there is more criteria to be considered how does anyone know? I know it is in the rules page and people are *supposed* to know that, and consider it in there vote. But how do we know that is happening?
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