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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Bummer... two DNMC in the top three...
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09/19/2007 10:17:35 AM · #1
I see voters reward DNMCs -- why do we even bother with challenge themes?

Opening was to show something in the ACT of opening. A VERB, not a noun.

Both the second and third place finishes -- and many more -- took the noun route. Or showed something LOOSELY considered "already open" This isn't a shoehorn situation. It's a pretty clear distinction.

The photos are great, but as we see once again, DID NOT MEET CHALLENGE.

Ok, I'm done.
09/19/2007 10:26:18 AM · #2
Could say the same thing for the Closing challenge as well.

Message edited by author 2007-09-19 10:26:43.
09/19/2007 10:28:38 AM · #3
HA! People found loopholes around the "2 Second Exposure" challenge - good luck getting any attention to this complaint. :-)
09/19/2007 10:38:18 AM · #4
judging from your comments on my picture you were very strict on definitions ( the door was actually opening as I stuck my hand through, ).
Don't get me wrong, yours is a perfectly valid position and if you feel that my or anyone else's picture didn't represent opening I completely respect that, but I'm pointing out that your view of the challenge is on the strict end of spectrum and you shouldn't expect the majority here to vote along with your opinion.

No one ever votes along with my opinion; though I'm sure the world would be a better, more boring place if they did.

Again (I feel silly repeating this, but on the internet you learn that anyone can and will take offense at anything), I understand your position on my entry.
09/19/2007 10:50:01 AM · #5
Like it or not, the placement of the photos should make it obvious that most of the voters you're complaining to don't agree with your strict interpretation.
09/19/2007 10:59:19 AM · #6
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

I see voters reward DNMCs -- why do we even bother with challenge themes?

Opening was to show something in the ACT of opening. A VERB, not a noun.

Both the second and third place finishes -- and many more -- took the noun route. Or showed something LOOSELY considered "already open" This isn't a shoehorn situation. It's a pretty clear distinction.

The photos are great, but as we see once again, DID NOT MEET CHALLENGE.

Ok, I'm done.


I hear yah, sometimes I get fustrated about the same thing, but maybe you should be more laxed on your photos when it comes to the definitions of the challenges. This might help your shots get higher scores. I know how you feel, but the challeges are of type of "Majority Rules" situation. You have a choice of joining the gravy train and win, or stick to your style and be unique and roll it off your back. I have chosen choice #2. More than often people just dont get some of the stuff that I do. And it reflects in the scores. I keep forgetting that the majority of the audience will not spend more than 2 seconds looking at your entry and you have to create a photo that will captivate them in that time period. Some resort to an awesome photo, with little or no meeting of the challenge others NAIL it right on. You just need to find your happy media and not let the challenges get to you so much or you will be discourage into participating.

This is a place where anyone from Matty the dog to Billy bob from the boonies can vote on. I'ts not a panel of photographers that judge you on techincalities. So you have to take it for what it is.
09/19/2007 10:59:32 AM · #7
agree with the OP's view concerning the third place, but the process of a waterlily opening can be darn slow :-P

(now someone come and say "the process of water carving the hole in the canyon is even slower", but I'm sure that wasn't the photog's intention)
09/19/2007 11:25:15 AM · #8
Originally posted by eyewave:



(now someone come and say "the process of water carving the hole in the canyon is even slower", but I'm sure that wasn't the photog's intention)


Who cares what the photographer's intention was? If the voter thinks that when they see it, then that's fine.

Intention is not a primary factor, it's important, but only after the challenge.
09/19/2007 11:52:49 AM · #9
Originally posted by scalvert:

Like it or not, the placement of the photos should make it obvious that most of the voters you're complaining to don't agree with your strict interpretation.


What STRICT interpretation? Does the challenge clearly state "ACT OF OPENING"?

"An opening" noun is not in the act of opening.

"Something being open" is not in the act of opening.

The top three photos are EXCELLENT photos, BTW. Just two don't meet the challenge in the slightest.

If the challenge had been "interpret the word opening', then fine, many more would have met it.

But don't harp on ME being STRICT, when I simply took the time to READ the challenge theme and not jump on the one word title of the challenge.


09/19/2007 11:55:22 AM · #10
Originally posted by zarniwoop:

judging from your comments on my picture you were very strict on definitions ( the door was actually opening as I stuck my hand through, ).
Don't get me wrong, yours is a perfectly valid position and if you feel that my or anyone else's picture didn't represent opening I completely respect that, but I'm pointing out that your view of the challenge is on the strict end of spectrum and you shouldn't expect the majority here to vote along with your opinion.

No one ever votes along with my opinion; though I'm sure the world would be a better, more boring place if they did.

Again (I feel silly repeating this, but on the internet you learn that anyone can and will take offense at anything), I understand your position on my entry.


Definitely didn't mean any offense with yours -- or the couple of others like it. It just would have been clearer if the door was in motion or at the very least the hand was opening the door, not sneaking in an apparent already ajar situation. :)
09/19/2007 12:01:56 PM · #11
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

I see voters reward DNMCs -- why do we even bother with challenge themes?

Opening was to show something in the ACT of opening. A VERB, not a noun.

Both the second and third place finishes -- and many more -- took the noun route. Or showed something LOOSELY considered "already open" This isn't a shoehorn situation. It's a pretty clear distinction.

The photos are great, but as we see once again, DID NOT MEET CHALLENGE.

Ok, I'm done.


I agree, all entries should be submitted to you for review to determine if the submission meets the challenge or not. Those that do may go on to be voted on by the less enlightened masses. Those that do not will be banned from DPC for 2 months.

09/19/2007 12:02:39 PM · #12
It's pretty much the usual complaint: some people vote on the TITLE of the challenge and don't seem to take the WORDING of the description into account. Ditto for submissions. I'm not sure why we even HAVE descriptions, for all the good they do us usually.

All the winners, and for that matter most of the entries, meet the challenge if "opening" is interpreted as a noun.

Based on the challenge description, 2nd place is marginal (the flower MAY be in the act of opening, in the sense that it might open further than it already has as the day progresses, and 3rd place clearly does not meet the active sense of the verb "opening".

So I'm mildly disappointed as well, though it's what I have come to expect.

R.
09/19/2007 12:09:54 PM · #13
I'm with Hawkeye on this one. Often the description is open to subjective interpretation, the one for Opening was extremely clear and clearly not met by some of the entries. Unfortunately there is nothing 'illegal' about that :s
09/19/2007 12:18:25 PM · #14
I agree but I also disagree ;) To be honest, I thought my entry for POWER was nearly a DNMC - but no one really agreed with me.

The most disappointing thing to me is this may be MAY BE reflective of people's lack of attention to language details - photogs and voters.
However, I think that the challenge topic was pretty lame and we as voters and photogs pushed it into something a bit more exciting by allowing various interpretations.
09/19/2007 12:24:34 PM · #15
This thread wreaks of horse flesh. Now, where did I place that ignore button?
09/19/2007 12:24:45 PM · #16
Originally posted by metatate:

However, I think that the challenge topic was pretty lame and we as voters and photogs pushed it into something a bit more exciting by allowing various interpretations.


Frankly, I think that's a bit of a copout. Apply that kind of reasoning to assigned tasks in the real world and see how far it gets you.

R.
09/19/2007 12:25:48 PM · #17
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

This thread wreaks of horse flesh. Now, where did I place that ignore button?


And your comment reeks of "inattention to language", Leroy :-)

R.

Message edited by author 2007-09-19 12:25:57.
09/19/2007 12:27:15 PM · #18
Whilst I would be classed by the masses as a DNMC Nazi (I hate shoe-horning and will mark an image down massively if the title has indeed shoehorned the image into the challenge),but even I would apply a bit more latitude to your rather strict interpretation of the challenge.

Maybe this rant is becuse you are not happy with your score. However I would probably say that your entry DNMC either, going by your reasoning.

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by zarniwoop:

judging from your comments on my picture you were very strict on definitions ( the door was actually opening as I stuck my hand through, ).
Don't get me wrong, yours is a perfectly valid position and if you feel that my or anyone else's picture didn't represent opening I completely respect that, but I'm pointing out that your view of the challenge is on the strict end of spectrum and you shouldn't expect the majority here to vote along with your opinion.

No one ever votes along with my opinion; though I'm sure the world would be a better, more boring place if they did.

Again (I feel silly repeating this, but on the internet you learn that anyone can and will take offense at anything), I understand your position on my entry.


Definitely didn't mean any offense with yours -- or the couple of others like it. It just would have been clearer if the door was in motion or at the very least the hand was opening the door, not sneaking in an apparent already ajar situation. :)
09/19/2007 12:41:42 PM · #19
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

But don't harp on ME being STRICT, when I simply took the time to READ the challenge theme and not jump on the one word title of the challenge.


The 2nd and 3rd place entries may rely heavily on their titles for any sense of opening, but the title IS an integral part of the entry, and perhaps no less important in communicating the concept than composition or lighting. Our individual opinions matter less than half of one percent, and whether you or I agree is completely irrelevant. We may not think a particular shot is appropriate, but for most of the voters on this particular challenge, it meets the challenge, period. Note that neither shot received a single vote of 1. ;-)

Message edited by author 2007-09-19 12:42:51.
09/19/2007 12:46:56 PM · #20
Impossible to know that, the votes could have been scrubbed out.
09/19/2007 12:50:31 PM · #21
I have to agree HawkeyeLonewolf your image is as much of a DNMC as my dads I see no evidence of the lid in motion as far as I can tell it is in a fixed position or closing, for that matter only the title indicates that the lid may be opening. My Dads cave opening shot scotthadl is a noun and a verb as erosion is steadily making the opening larger witnessed by time only.

I vote liberally in these challenges as this is intended to be fun and provides opportunity to get out of your normal shooting style.

Message edited by author 2007-09-19 12:51:55.
09/19/2007 01:00:28 PM · #22
I also mentioned that it was disappointing that people disregarded the details of the challenge (glass half empty) but finished my statement with the fact that we had better images being that the topic was pushed (glass half full).
This is topic which has obviously come up before - where I personally can understand both sides - I don't know how much more we can really say here.

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by metatate:

However, I think that the challenge topic was pretty lame and we as voters and photogs pushed it into something a bit more exciting by allowing various interpretations.


Frankly, I think that's a bit of a copout. Apply that kind of reasoning to assigned tasks in the real world and see how far it gets you.

R.

09/19/2007 01:04:24 PM · #23
Originally posted by willhadl:

<snip> ... as erosion is steadily making the opening larger witnessed by time only.



Originally posted by eyewave:



now someone come and say "the process of water carving the hole in the canyon is even slower"


See, it took only 2 hours.
09/19/2007 01:09:53 PM · #24
I got 72nd place out of 76 images for attempting to show the ACT of closing.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/741/120/585729.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/741/120/585729.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I refused to name my image "closing hands" or to somehow use the title to convey closing. Apparently that was one of my mistakes. I thought the motion blur was great and virtually implied the closing of a hand but I guess the voters didn't agree.

Needless to say I was very disappointed to see the pretty images with little to no closure action score high. I need to once again remind myself that the majority vote rules and the challenge descriptions are subjective and sometimes optional. They should be called challenge suggestions.
09/19/2007 01:10:34 PM · #25
I'll ring in that I'm disappointed in voters in both directions.

I agree that the challenge was crystal clear about it being a verb. In fact, I couldn't come up with a good way of showing something in the act of opening or closing, so I didn't enter.

But I also think people are far too restrictive in allowing there may be other interpretations beyond their own understanding of the world.

In both cases, though, I just accept that's how DPC works and carry on.
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