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02/18/2008 08:36:24 PM · #76 |
*pops in then just wanders off singing to himself*
lalalalalal |
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02/18/2008 08:39:09 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Sorry... But I think that those defending this position have no clue ...
I dont need to waste anymore time on it.
Typical |
Now couldn't this be deemed offensive? Where's that delete button... |
I was going to say something like that, but figured since it is rumored that SC has no sense of humor, it would be taken the wrong way. :) |
Check your pm
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02/18/2008 08:39:46 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
They gain insight into that commentor's esthetic and moral values, personality and social acumen, the better to judge any subsequent comments made by that person. |
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02/18/2008 08:40:52 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Sorry... But I think that those defending this position have no clue ...
I dont need to waste anymore time on it.
Typical |
Now couldn't this be deemed offensive? Where's that delete button... |
I was going to say something like that, but figured since it is rumored that SC has no sense of humor, it would be taken the wrong way. :) |
Check your pm |
And ah this would be the time for the delete button in the forum :) Just because I am pissed doesn't mean I cant Smile :)
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02/18/2008 08:41:01 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
...if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
The larger issue, Gordon, is that when some people have their comments removed when they are in violation of nothing and it was merely that the photographer didn't agree with them, it deters other users making comments on other images where they might be welcome.
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02/18/2008 08:41:17 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
They gain insight into that commentor's esthetic and moral values, personality and social acumen, the better to judge any subsequent comments made by that person. |
Maybe the commenter could gain more insight if they notice that all their comments were deleted and unappreciated ? |
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02/18/2008 08:41:31 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
Gordon, that's not the point at all... and I think you know this. The point is, the minute we start removing things "just because", we simply won't have time to do anything else. The tidal wave of requests we'll get will make the current rate look like a ripple on a mud puddle.
We *must* accept that with the intelligent, considered comments we'll get some inane, juvenile, and arguably useless ones. If I've got to sort through thousands of comments per week to decide which are which, then please accept my resignation. |
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02/18/2008 08:45:11 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
Well you are not seeing the photos attached to those samples but on the surface they all seem helpful to me to some degree. It just depends on who's reading them, what stage they are in their learning and the type of photography they are into. Even if they are not helpful why waste time handling these requests? Why does the photographer even care to have these removed? If this is the level of pettiness these photographers have I can't imagine what having a delete button would produce. I'm guessing just the comments that kiss the ass of the photographer gets kept. That helps nobody.
Message edited by author 2008-02-18 20:46:57.
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02/18/2008 08:46:36 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is ? Do you think other viewers are getting deep insight into photography by your preservation of these sorts of commentary ? |
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: Is that a real duck? That looks stuffed.
Photog: I would like this comment removed. It is an idiotic comment that does not help me improve the picture at all. |
Someones way of saying that the angle or lighting of the shot is unnatural or just doesn't look right.
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: This looks like a snapshot.
Photog: This shot is obviously not a snapshot. I put a great deal of effort into this shot. It offends me that someone would say it was a snapshot. |
Someones way of saying that this looks like a shot that had no set up or thought addressed to it and that perhaps if the photog used a different compositional technique....
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: That sky looks unnatural.
Photog: How in the world can a sky look unnatural. Of course it is a natural sky. This commenter has no idea about how to comment to improve my photography. Please remove. |
Someones way of saying that the sky has an odd look to it.
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: The background would be better if it were more even/a different color/etc.
Photog: They obviously have no idea. I could not control this. Please remove it. |
Someones way of saying that IF the background COULD have been a different color this shot would have been more powerful, tough luck, eh?
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: This shot reminds me of my great uncle, Horace.
Photog: This woman is nowhere near old enough to be a great aunt, and there is nothing manly about her. It is insulting to the model and does not improve my photography at all. Please remove. |
Someones way of saying that your subject reminds me of my great uncle who's name is Horace. They could even be related in some way...
Originally posted by karmat:
Comment: I really don't like chess/horses/baby shots/the color green.
Photog: How is this helpful or constructive criticism. This is ridiculous. |
Someones way of saying that this subject doesn't appeal to them and they are sorry that they are scoring the shot a bit lower because of it.
Just because someone isn't as well spoken as you would like doesn't make their comment invalid...
edited to clarify a little
Message edited by author 2008-02-18 20:49:06. |
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02/18/2008 08:46:38 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Bottom line, if we started removing everything that hit a nerve, we'd never do anything else, and the comment system would become nothing more than a venue for folks patting each other on the back.
If we give editorial power to the comment recipients, then we might as well just fold up the comment system, for all the honesty that will remain. |
You and others keep saying this, and I still find it a cynical attitude that disregards what I think the majority would do: accept honest criticism. Your opinion of the user base seems surprisingly low. |
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02/18/2008 08:46:56 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
if this is the level of things that would be 'lost' from the site - could you explain what the issue is? |
The issue (one of several) is that these particular comments may not be any more useful than "great shot," but they're not the only comments made by a given voter. When a voter's comments start disappearing over misunderstandings or posts meant tongue in cheek, then that voter is more likely to stop commenting altogether and the few people leaving actual critiques disappear one by one. |
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02/18/2008 08:47:07 PM · #87 |
My view is, I've always know I'd get comments I didn't like. If something offends me, that is not always the same as it being inherently offensive. Seems like inherently offensive comments, if reported, DO get dealt with. If I report something that SC doesn't feel violates TOS, then I just suck it up and move on, and if I'm so attached to a particular subject that I can't deal with negative comments, I simply don't put it out there for people to comment on.
I like the possibilities of a "submit for clarification" procedure, but to just out and out delete comments does not really seem in the nature of the site, to me. One reason, which has already been stated, there are PLENTY of people who feel discouraged *already* from giving comments because of the negative feedback they get... I don't see it getting any better if people could delete anything they chose.
And anyway, I'd have thought, based on prior reactions to some of SC's actions, that more people would be against "censorship"....
Edit: I seem to be lagging behind the flow of conversation... oops!
Message edited by author 2008-02-18 20:48:11. |
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02/18/2008 08:48:53 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by L2:
The larger issue, Gordon, is that when some people have their comments removed when they are in violation of nothing and it was merely that the photographer didn't agree with them, it deters other users making comments on other images where they might be welcome. |
Do you think the majority of users here would remove constructive criticism, or only a minority? |
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02/18/2008 08:50:28 PM · #89 |
Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Some can verbalize it fine, others may have difficulties with the English language, and that is NOT tailored just to those in foreign countries.
Every voter should have the right to voice their opinion without feeling like they are walking on eggshells. So we don't agree or see their side of it or maybe they just missed it completely, but when we start allowing censorship just to please our egos, then it becomes all worthless. We don't have to mark it as helpful for what worth it has.
Report post for rude, crude, inappropriate comments is all we need, so long that is what the report post button is used for. If someone says a pose or a curve is not flattering, let it be. They are seeing it from a disinterested side, kind of like being given someone else's picture to edit - we weren't there to see the scene, be involved or have a feeling about it, and often the resulting edit, crop, rotation etc will be very different than that of the person that clicked the shutter.
/rant off
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02/18/2008 08:50:43 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Bottom line, if we started removing everything that hit a nerve, we'd never do anything else, and the comment system would become nothing more than a venue for folks patting each other on the back.
If we give editorial power to the comment recipients, then we might as well just fold up the comment system, for all the honesty that will remain. |
You and others keep saying this, and I still find it a cynical attitude that disregards what I think the majority would do: accept honest criticism. Your opinion of the user base seems surprisingly low. |
Cynical? Perhaps, guilty as charged. It's also reality. If people know that they can obtain removal of a comment just by complaining about it, the amount of complaints *will* increase exponentially. Fact of life, human nature. If you have an open path to a desirable result, you'll take that path. It says nothing about my opinion of the user base, and I do take exception to the implication. |
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02/18/2008 08:50:51 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by L2:
The larger issue, Gordon, is that when some people have their comments removed when they are in violation of nothing and it was merely that the photographer didn't agree with them, it deters other users making comments on other images where they might be welcome. |
Do you think the majority of users here would remove constructive criticism, or only a minority? |
Give them the preference to state they only want fluffy feel good comments. |
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02/18/2008 08:55:19 PM · #92 |
Seems like this is todays topic? OK, if the coment is obviously bad/detrimental etc it should be removed via the site council, if however, the commenter just states they don't like the image (regardless of whether a reason is given) then why should it be removed?
Hey, if you publish your image for all to view then take the rough with the smooth - simple answer to those that don't like (constructive) critisism is to show your pics to your Mother. |
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02/18/2008 08:57:48 PM · #93 |
i like getting a 'great shot' comment. i like knowing that someone appreciates the photo. that's just as important to me as getting an in depth critique. i also know that i don't feel like i am experienced enough to give an indepth critique or that i just can't find anything wrong with a photo and i just want the photog to know that *I* personally enjoyed their creativity even if i don't have anything constructive to say.
seeing people complain about getting such comments as 'great shot' really disappoints me and imo is selfish and ungrateful.
i think the best suggestion to solve a lot of these problems were those advocating a button for people to opt out on receiving any comments. either take the bad with the good or just disable to ability to get any at all. |
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02/18/2008 08:59:05 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Bottom line, if we started removing everything that hit a nerve, we'd never do anything else, and the comment system would become nothing more than a venue for folks patting each other on the back.
If we give editorial power to the comment recipients, then we might as well just fold up the comment system, for all the honesty that will remain. |
You and others keep saying this, and I still find it a cynical attitude that disregards what I think the majority would do: accept honest criticism. Your opinion of the user base seems surprisingly low. |
Cynical? Perhaps, guilty as charged. It's also reality. If people know that they can obtain removal of a comment just by complaining about it, the amount of complaints *will* increase exponentially. Fact of life, human nature. If you have an open path to a desirable result, you'll take that path. It says nothing about my opinion of the user base, and I do take exception to the implication. |
"Nothing more than a venue for back-patting" and the like implies, to me at least, that you think the majority of users would delete constructive criticism. This seems to indicate you think the majority of people here aren't interested in criticism, and will, as you put it, take the intellectually lazy path of least resistance to meet this nefarious goal. I personally think that's not a very high opinion of people's motives, and actually I take exception to the implication that that's what I would do. |
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02/18/2008 09:01:09 PM · #95 |
This thread or the other did not start about harsh comments about a photograph. It started about personally insulting the models in the photographs.
I can take harsh critique but dont insult the models .
I cant see how anyone can defend that .
Message edited by author 2008-02-18 21:01:59.
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02/18/2008 09:02:32 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by desertoddity:
i like getting a 'great shot' comment. i like knowing that someone appreciates the photo. that's just as important to me as getting an in depth critique. i also know that i don't feel like i am experienced enough to give an indepth critique or that i just can't find anything wrong with a photo and i just want the photog to know that *I* personally enjoyed their creativity even if i don't have anything constructive to say.
seeing people complain about getting such comments as 'great shot' really disappoints me and imo is selfish and ungrateful.
i think the best suggestion to solve a lot of these problems were those advocating a button for people to opt out on receiving any comments. either take the bad with the good or just disable to ability to get any at all. |
OK... You have a shot that you post here at DPC. I have some ideas for improving your shot. You chose not to have any comments added to your shot. You have just robbed every newbie that looks at your image from a learning opportunity. Is the system perfect? NO. Is locking down images just so you can show them off and feel good about them better? NO! If you can't stand the heat stay out of the digital kitchen that is what DPC is... |
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02/18/2008 09:03:29 PM · #97 |
And yet we didn't see any specific examples of anything that was directly insulting or libelous towards the models...
'Is he urinating?' is hardly in the same boat as slander. |
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02/18/2008 09:04:17 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
And yet we didn't see any specific examples of anything that was directly insulting or libelous towards the models...
'Is he urinating?' is hardly in the same boat as slander. |
Read my post RE: gangsta in this thread
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02/18/2008 09:06:05 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
And yet we didn't see any specific examples of anything that was directly insulting or libelous towards the models... |
You aren't privy to every little drama going on via PM. Remember, we are encouraged to resolve all our issues amongst ourselves and leave the powers that be alone. |
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02/18/2008 09:07:50 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by eschelar:
And yet we didn't see any specific examples of anything that was directly insulting or libelous towards the models... |
You aren't privy to every little drama going on via PM. Remember, we are encouraged to resolve all our issues amongst ourselves and leave the powers that be alone. |
You are encouraged to be civil? |
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