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08/02/2007 01:49:16 AM · #51
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by e301:

Horribly self-congratulatory thread, Jason.

e


And reeks of arrogance.


Come again?
08/02/2007 01:57:36 AM · #52
This is where this belonged. But there it won't get as many views. It's almost up to 3000.
08/02/2007 02:09:39 AM · #53
People post threads like this. They're helping us learn. This is a site where we like to learn. If they get a little more exposure, so be it. They earned it.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 02:10:17.
08/02/2007 02:18:58 AM · #54
Dave,
I have read your posts in this thread and I have to say that I am sad to see most of them. I have looked at your profile several times, I enjoy seeing your photos and what you have contributed to this site and to think that you are as unhappy with how the site is going it is sad. Part of me questions if you really feel as strongly as your posts let on or if you are playing the part of your username.

While most people here will probably not agree with your opinions on how DPC is running now or the purpose behind this thread in general, please let me sympathize with you a bit.

I have been frustrated in my short year here at DPC as you have. I have gone from not wanting to be a member anymore to realizing that this is the exact opposite of what I wanted. The main reason I changed was because of my 6 team mates sticking by me and making me realize just how trivial all of this is. With their help I was able to change my point of view.

This site may be addicting, challenging, fun, frustrating, and everything else, but it is not real life. We don't live in the wires that connect us all together. We instead live in our own lives and share these experiences with everyone. Placing too much importance in the lives inside this site seems to be problematic for many people on this site. I am totally addicted to this site, I quit visitng other forums all together. but I still know that this site is not my life. My life is complimented by it, not run by it.

I was ready to quit. I didn't feel like my photos were being voted fairly and I reached a level of frustration where I asked why do I bother? I then was reminded that I take photos for me, not for DPC. My attitude changed and I had the most successful month I have ever had on this site.

I also quit trying to fight the system. Because the system does not fight back, it just laughs and moves on. I realized that rather than fighting something I had no control over, I needed to instead embrace the parts I can't control so I can make them work to my favor. Doing so took away that feeling of beating my head against a wall.

The DPL was a great addition to this site. So many of us are greatful for the learning and cameraderie experiences that we had. In what way can anyone say that it influenced who won the challenges. The same names on the front page now are the same names that were there a year ago. They are the smae names that were there before DPL started and will be after DPL is over if ever.

To think you are ready to quit over DPL is a sad thought because there is so much more to this site than DPL.

To see you think that someone posting a process of how they reached a winning photo is gloating is even more saddening. I think it was very generous of him to post this. I always look at the photos of Scalvert because I know he will post how he did it. Not just mark his photo with N/A and keep his secrets to himself. To think that he worked as hard as he did to make a photo win, gives me inspiration that I too can win someday if I work as hard. Ok, maybe not win, but still it gives hope.

This site is so much more than a competetion. It is so much more than an argument. It is so much more than the petty mudslinging that is taking place.

This site is about learning, about fellowship, about success, about failure, about sharing your love for your hobby with others that feel the same way.

Why is it so addicting? Because you have the opportunity to interact with someone who loves their camera as much as you do. And you can never take that away from this site.

What this site is not, is life. Life happens away from the computer. The computer and the lines connecting it just allow you to share it. Not manipulate it, share it.

Why quit something you have enjoyed? Embrace the changes and use them to your advatage . Use them to esnure that your hobby continues to grow along with you.

I know I have grown as a photographer, and even as a person.

Just my $.02

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

This is where this belonged. But there it won't get as many views. It's almost up to 3000.
08/02/2007 02:58:26 AM · #55
It's not just me that feels this way. I've got an inbox full of e-mails like this:

Whoa, tell me how you really feel about the thread, "The evolution of 'I'm in LOVE!'..."

LOL, I agree with you but I am staying out of this one...

I hate the team thing where many of the best photogs are all together. It seems unfair to the rest of the normal people here. The arrogance is what kills me most.

I just can't compete with these guys and it is no fun...

08/02/2007 03:43:01 AM · #56
I was ignoring all this noise about "the league" and haven't realized that DPC became a team sport. Thanks for heads up, Jason!
08/02/2007 03:46:29 AM · #57



HERE.

08/02/2007 04:55:03 AM · #58
Funny how one can easily be led astray and into a mob mentality, as I did at first, thinking how unfair it was to the site to have a "machine" cranking out winning shots all the time.
Then I sat back and thought for once.
You have a team. The team works together as a whole, to help the co-operative efforts of the team, and each individual's shots. Brainstorming, creativity and experience work well for a strong team, but in the voting process, the team can't vote on each other's. A team effort to keep a winning team just that.

Yes, it does make it a bit tough for the average member to get anywhere near the top, but in a sense, it pushes everyone to try just a little bit harder, knowing what the quality is of the shots they will be up against.

Showing a friend, co-worker, family member is one thing, but having a panel of experts to show it to, and get help from is another. Kind of like a professional car racing team - they have all the talent, hire the best support teams, the best equipment, etc and do what they have to in order to win. Not saying any of the teams in the WPL/DPL are "bought" teams, but damn near. They want ribbons and want bragging rights, and will work that much harder for it, which is what keeps a winning team on top.

In the next team selection rounds, I would like to see a better dispersion of the talent. I read many members in the "showroom stock Hondas" are having a tough time even wanting to race against the "Ferraris", and aren't even bothering entering the challenges. I'm speaking on the averages, not from a personal standpoint. I wouldn't trade a single member of the team I'm on, but then again we aren't the "average" team either.

Oh, and by the way Doc, thanks for the peek inside the inner workings of your process - knowing the DPC recipe and how to apply it. Not really my style anymore, but should be of help to those wanting to follow that path.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 05:05:05.
08/02/2007 05:09:33 AM · #59
Originally posted by e301:

Horribly self-congratulatory thread, Jason.

e


wow get over it! cant believe the jealousy.

I think this thread is about learning, helping some of the new comers find ways of improving.
08/02/2007 05:30:21 AM · #60
Originally posted by AlexSaberi:

Originally posted by e301:

Horribly self-congratulatory thread, Jason.

e


wow get over it! cant believe the jealousy.



Alex e301.

jealousy?
08/02/2007 05:37:27 AM · #61
I do agree to most of what you say Brad, I guess what I dont like is that it is pretty much a production line of plastic imagery.

To keep it on subject a little, take a look at the images in question.


Here we have a black and white image that is obviously set up but with a candid vibe to it. Hell, it looks like its even got blown out highlights (god forbid)

lasfuaowlcfmsdj;iojflc;jiVjalzivjfv (the sound of the cogs turning in the sausage factory)

and wham

plastic imagery

I guess I just dont understand the logic of this type of photography, for me is about exploring and showing people what I see. If i miss a shot I will try harder next time, I feel guilty inside for some reason if I take more than two or three frames of the same scene (if theres time).

When I first read this thread for some reason I felt a little bit of pity. I cant really explain why, I think its because of all the people that look up to these guys and wanting to be like them, they are missing out on all of the fun and excitement of their own journey.
08/02/2007 05:54:03 AM · #62
Originally posted by boysetsfire:

... they are missing out on all of the fun and excitement of their own journey.


AMEN TO THAT !!!
08/02/2007 05:59:37 AM · #63
Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by AlexSaberi:

Originally posted by e301:

Horribly self-congratulatory thread, Jason.

e


wow get over it! cant believe the jealousy.



Alex e301.

jealousy?


what else can it be? explain please
08/02/2007 06:00:24 AM · #64
well at least we don't have to here the Doc complain about 4th place again... :P
08/02/2007 06:05:44 AM · #65
Originally posted by jdannels:

well at least we don't have to here the Doc complain about 4th place again... :P


hehe but he already has the record for greatest number of 4th places. His profile says so! :-)
08/02/2007 06:07:42 AM · #66
Originally posted by AlexSaberi:



what else can it be? explain please


From my dealings with Ed, the only person I can think that he would be jealous of would be Tony Ray-Jones!

Ed is in a different league.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 06:08:21.
08/02/2007 06:07:51 AM · #67
Originally posted by AlexSaberi:

what else can it be? explain please

Irritation?

You know, like a wasp.
08/02/2007 06:13:05 AM · #68
hehe, so when we going for that long awaited beer?
08/02/2007 06:16:33 AM · #69
Oh boy, oh boy.
Can't we just finish with this neverending thread?
I mean the idea was to show us what he did to achive the shot. Now if you agree or not with his methods, that is your problem. Does it really matter if he shoot 1 or 2 or 3000 pictures in order to achieve what he wanted? Everyone has its method of doing things and they should not be judged upon that. If you are willing to spend 1 min or 1 hour or 1 day to take a shoot, that is up to you. What counts its the final result. Take it or leave it.
I think everything was said on this topic.
08/02/2007 06:21:19 AM · #70
Originally posted by anotherday:

Oh boy, oh boy.
Can't we just finish with this neverending thread?
I mean the idea was to show us what he did to achive the shot. Now if you agree or not with his methods, that is your problem. Does it really matter if he shoot 1 or 2 or 3000 pictures in order to achieve what he wanted? Everyone has its method of doing things and they should not be judged upon that. If you are willing to spend 1 min or 1 hour or 1 day to take a shoot, that is up to you. What counts its the final result. Take it or leave it.
I think everything was said on this topic.


If there are no grounds for discussion why was there a thread created?
There is a photographers comments section for every photograph is there not?
08/02/2007 06:31:50 AM · #71
Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by anotherday:

Oh boy, oh boy.
Can't we just finish with this neverending thread?
I mean the idea was to show us what he did to achive the shot. Now if you agree or not with his methods, that is your problem. Does it really matter if he shoot 1 or 2 or 3000 pictures in order to achieve what he wanted? Everyone has its method of doing things and they should not be judged upon that. If you are willing to spend 1 min or 1 hour or 1 day to take a shoot, that is up to you. What counts its the final result. Take it or leave it.
I think everything was said on this topic.


If there are no grounds for discussion why was there a thread created?
There is a photographers comments section for every photograph is there not?


I see you're in for a discussion so you may continue.
But what I see in this thread it's not a discussion, it's throwing stones. Why did he do it like this? Why did he need 130 shots when I only need 2? Why the team advised him? Why, why?

And for those that say that his DPL team had a lot to do with the shot, I just want to say this: with all the advice that you get, you are the only one responsible for how the shot will look in the end. It's not your team that is behind the camera, it's you. And with all the advice in the world, if you are not good, you'll just not make it a good shot.
08/02/2007 06:40:43 AM · #72
Thanks Jason. This is how I've learned since I've been a member of DPC. If no one wrote this stuff how would we improve?
08/02/2007 06:42:49 AM · #73
so many self righteous people....hmm

i take hundreds of shots every challenge, always trying to get the
right take, if i get one i'm happy with after 50 shots i'm lucky.

as for "setting it up" what about all the still life shots, etc.

from past experience i have learnt its not a good idea to share
steps from a winning photograph.

i do agree that the teams are not a good idea, unfair advantage to
individuals (even though i'm in one) can't say my scores have
got any higher.

congrats on the blue jason, you deserved it.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 07:01:43.
08/02/2007 07:02:31 AM · #74
Originally posted by AlexSaberi:

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by AlexSaberi:

Originally posted by e301:

Horribly self-congratulatory thread, Jason.

e


wow get over it! cant believe the jealousy.



Alex e301.

jealousy?


what else can it be? explain please


I must admit, I thought that it was interesting to see the thinking behind the shot, but there is definitely a strong tinge of arrogance about it: in particular the last paragraph assumes that the Ribbon Hogs' level of dedication to photography is exceptional, perhaps the arbiter by which the Ribbon Hogs are set apart, and should therefore be inspirational.

My own view is that there are a lot of people who take hundreds of shots and invest a significant amount of time into photography. Not all of them are so focussed around DPC competition entries, and not all of them choose to represent their work in a style that scores well.

The real point of irritation for me is the assumption that this is in some manner an inspirational shot: IMHO, it is a nice shot and conveys the challenge title well. However, – again I stress IMHO – the image is hackneyed, contrived, and uninventive from a broader perspective.

No offence intended (genuinely) – I think that there is a difference in attitude between the British and Americans on personal success. From a stereotyped view, self promotion appears to be very acceptable in the US, whereas in the UK there is far more admiration for the gracious, reserved, and understated approach.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 07:05:14.
08/02/2007 07:03:56 AM · #75
I generally don't post in threads like this, but I just can't believe so many posters are shocked and upset that he took 130 shots. This was a set up shot, not a candid... deal with it. Do you think professional photographers have their models just hang around the studio and sneak a few shots of them and hope they catch one that their client might like? No, they painstakingly set up everything and take hundreds of shots to get that one that works. This is no different... just because the shot is outdoors doesn't mean it has to be treated as a candid.

I do understand that it may take away some of the "excitement" of the photograph for some, but seriously, how many times have you seen a man jumping for joy in a grassy field with flowers and a derby? Did you really think it was a candid before he made his original post? Personally, I like hearing that it took so many shots... makes me feel like I'm not as bas as I thought.

I hate the DPL for other reasons, but I think the team concept is a great thing. I think it would be even better if each member from the winning team became a Captain next season and had their own team. They could battle it out against each other. I know that really isn't fair to them, but it would be cool to see which team would win.
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