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04/17/2007 09:52:53 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
And the award for most confusing ASCII art in a post goes to.... zxaar. :) |
He he, but i tried.
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04/17/2007 10:04:11 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
And the award for most confusing ASCII art in a post goes to.... zxaar. :) |
He he, but i tried. |
Thank you zxaar for the effort and thank you TechnoShroom for making me laugh... actually, I still don't understand, but maybe it's just that I don't want to understand as I'm Italian as Columbus and don't want to believe that he made such a gross mistake! |
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04/17/2007 10:26:49 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by gattamarta:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
And the award for most confusing ASCII art in a post goes to.... zxaar. :) |
He he, but i tried. |
Thank you zxaar for the effort and thank you TechnoShroom for making me laugh... actually, I still don't understand, but maybe it's just that I don't want to understand as I'm Italian as Columbus and don't want to believe that he made such a gross mistake! |
May be he did not make mistake in what he sat out to do.
Because the program on discovery chanel was about vasco da gama, probably when they said he made mistake , they might mean that if he followed this route, eventually he would have ended up on real india, as vasco did. That was just a small turn to separate the fate of both the journeys.
But even though sailers sail by wind power they understand the simple fact that it is easy to sail with water than against it.
The columbus's discovery is always been debated, and i think it will be debated in times to come.
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04/17/2007 10:56:32 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by TIHadi:
In the long posting a little huge thing was left out, the red Indians, the true owners of the land, now in reserves with treaties forced on them that have the cruelest inhuman terms. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki nukings were presented in a very nice human way; also with claims to Americans being the inventors of the nukes!! |
I didn't leave out the Indians. I mentioned that when Chistopher Columbus arrived in (Hispaniola?) there wasn't anyone there "except some out-of-work Indians" so he claimed the land for the King and Queen of Spain. It's tongue-in-cheek.
You're right that I didn't write much about the Indians, though. You can go do that part. The European settlers of the New World didn't treat them well. The White Man was considered European (not American) by the Indians of the day and largely still is. As for the Reservations, not reserves, Indians are no longer forced to live on reservations. They own the reservations and they have a certain amount of legal sovereignty as actual nations on their reservations -- including their own police and courts. Yet they also have full American citizen status. So, they actually have more rights than anyone else in the U.S. now. Many tribes are doing a booming business with casinos (which are illegal in most of the U.S.) but are legal on reservations if the tribes choose to make it so.
Yes, the White Man's treatment of the Indians was not good; but neither was the Mongols' treatment of peoples they invaded; nor the Romans, nor the (fill in name of conquering people here). My point? That time in history was typical of how conquering peoples throughout the world treated the people they conquered throughout history. The exception? Refer to my previous paragraph on the sovereignty they now enjoy on their reservations (some of which are enormous -- the Navajo Reservation in Arizona, for example is about 30% of the whole state).
As for the nukes, yes, the U.S. did invent them in the Manhattan Project. We had German scientists.
As for the nuking of Japan. I presented it the way I did because that's how I see it. My personal view is that Japan had it coming. They wouldn't surrender and it would have been an absolute bloodbath to invade the main island. So, why tens or hundreds of thousands of American, Aussie and New Zealand servicemen have had to die invading the main island? We invented a secret weapon and we used it. Now, with the benefit of all we have learned about nukes in the interim, I hope we'll never use them again -- or need to. But if we NEED to, if the preservation or existence of our country depends upon it, so be it.
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 05:42:37. |
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04/17/2007 11:02:30 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Christopher Columbus was an Italian guy who got financed by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain to find a new route to India. He had a crazy idea that the world was round and that an alternate route to India could be found if he sailed west instead of east. |
According to discovery chanel this is not correct. Discover chanel showed how vasco da gama reached india. During that program, they showed that at one point in journey (Vasco followed lot of what Columbus did), he was supposed to wait for sea current to change.
the mistake columbus made was he did not wait till the current changed, and because of that he ended up going to other direction.
Vasco waited the sea current to become favourable and he got to correct side.
Of course Columbus time this knowledge was not available (or he just made a silly mistake).
Another interesting thing of whole episode was that, when portuguese reached india, they found that arabs were already there. They had good business with india.
So question is, whether the discovery of india was really a discovery.
Since india was already well connected. And portugese knew that india has trade with arabs. |
I've got enormous skepticism that you understood what the Discovery Channel was trying to say. You could be right about Columbus going the wrong way, but I'll be shocked if you are. As for the second part of it -- the discovery of India -- I think you're mixing apples and oranges. India had been "discovered" by Europeans long before this. Columbus wasn't trying to discover India. He was trying to find an alternate route to India. |
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04/17/2007 11:04:21 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Ok, so that's U.S. history in a nutshell. I'm sure I've left out a whole lot, but that's what sticks out in my mind. |
You left out the people who were already in the Americas when Columbus got here. |
I mentioned them. I said: "there wasn't anyone there except some out of work Indians. So he (Columbus) claimed the land for the King and Queen of Spain." It was tongue-in-cheek. Yes, there's a lot that could be said about them, but I don't know a lot of it. You do that part. Besides, I covered 500 years of history in one page.
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 01:58:54. |
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04/19/2007 03:33:55 PM · #82 |
OK, update, project going very well indeed, looks great..
HOWEVER,
When it came to printing out some images of dollar bills, it prints half of the image then stops and adds a website name
www.rulesforuse.org
According to the website a lot of software AND hardware has anti-money printing technology built in.
Big brother is watching! |
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04/19/2007 04:33:35 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Simms:
OK, update, project going very well indeed, looks great..
HOWEVER,
When it came to printing out some images of dollar bills, it prints half of the image then stops and adds a website name
www.rulesforuse.org
According to the website a lot of software AND hardware has anti-money printing technology built in.
Big brother is watching! |
Make sure he puts a note in his report that even our own government can't trust its people. We're a bunch of sneaky, money printing thieves! |
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04/19/2007 05:52:05 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by aliqui:
Make sure he puts a note in his report that even our own government can't trust its people. We're a bunch of sneaky, money printing thieves! |
Just like in every other country. |
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05/25/2007 02:26:38 AM · #85 |
OK, do you remember this thread from a few weeks back?
Anyway, we got this project completed in double quick time thanks to all your help and suggestions and he recently recieved the project back after being marked..
Lets just say he was one of only 3 people who got a gold award for their project!! and a brilliant write-up from his teacher.
So this is just a quick note to say thanks to everyone who contributed to th thread and helped a 9 year avoid one hell of a serious grounding! (see the original post for details).. cheers guys & gals! |
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05/25/2007 02:44:07 AM · #86 |
| Tell him good job and reinforce that in the future waiting to begin is unacceptable. |
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05/25/2007 02:57:27 AM · #87 |
This just proves the theory that if you leave something for the last minute, its ends up being ok after all ;)Congratulations to him!
So, a paper on US history is what? 1.5 pages or so? jk
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05/25/2007 03:11:25 AM · #88 |
| Some just work better under pressure. |
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05/25/2007 05:27:56 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Ok, so that's U.S. history in a nutshell. I'm sure I've left out a whole lot, but that's what sticks out in my mind. |
You left out the people who were already in the Americas when Columbus got here. |
I mentioned them. I said: "there wasn't anyone there except some out of work Indians. So he (Columbus) claimed the land for the King and Queen of Spain." It was tongue-in-cheek. Yes, there's a lot that could be said about them, but I don't know a lot of it. You do that part. Besides, I covered 500 years of history in one page. |
And how about the Vikings who were the first Europeans to travel to America!
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 05:28:53.
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05/25/2007 12:34:27 PM · #90 |
I must admit – I find this a fascinating insight into popular history from a US perspective. FWIW, I think that OmanOtter did a pretty good job of describing the history as I know it. However, from a UK perspective, I would make a few observations – to correct a couple of points and to highlight how history can be subjective. If nothing else, maybe it will be interesting to some.
Columbus along with almost everyone else knew that the world was spherical. Pretty much no-one thought it was flat – though they disagreed on the scale and almost none knew that the Americas lay in the way. The main issue was the loss of land caravan routes following the fall of Constantinople, not sea routes.
The US is the oldest written and consolidated constitution still in use – constitutional rights were previously unwritten and/or unconsolidated.
The 1812 war was over British support for Native Indian rights, press ganging Americans into the navy, and its imposition of trade sanctions.
I would note that slavery had been the subject of abolition by the British in the British Empire in the century before the civil war. Only 1/3 of the deaths in the US civil war were due to fighting – the rest were killed by disease (and BTW, death to wounded figures are pretty predictable at a c.1:3 ratio of those killed in battle to wounded).
The US only entered WW1 in 1917 when the Germans started sinking US ships and sent intercepted telegrams to Mexico trying to persuade them to attack the US with Japan in return for being given the southern US states back. It should be borne in mind that the US forces were a small fraction of the total allied forces mobilised (around 15%) and the war was reaching its end stages – while influential, it would be an exaggeration to suggest that the US won the war.
The US did not joint the WW2 war in Europe near the beginning, nor before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. GeneralIE̢۪s figure of 1/3 into the war is generous to the US, as the timing was nearer half way through the war in Europe. (Incidentally, the UK finished paying its war debts to the US for WWII last year(!))
The Manhattan Project was a project operated by the US, the UK and Canada located in the US. The German scientists were instrumental in developing ICBMs and in the space race: later delivery mechanisms rather than the nuclear physics. Whether the nuclear bombs (and in particular the second bomb on Nagasaki) were necessary is the subject of significant criticism and debate.
The cold war between the USSR and the USA was not over a choice between communism and freedom, but between communism and free market capitalism (ie socio-economic policies).
The division of Korea was done by agreement between the occupying states of USA and the USSR following WW2 and the subsequent war was a civil war for reunification and expulsion of occupying forces. The war was supported by the USSR & China (esp. following US invasion of China) in the North and opposed by the USA in the south.
Vietnam stretched from the 50s to 70s. I would describe Vietnam as having the veneer of capitalism nowadays – it still suffers many of the worst excesses of the communist regimes (even if it has adopted some free market policies – or at least allows external investment).
In terms of introducing the conflict in the ME, the 80s were a time of clandestine support for Irag (setting up Iraq for a fall from grace in the 90s).
Iraq is perhaps painted a little too rosily – but then we are barely talking history and more current events.
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05/25/2007 01:19:04 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
The US is the oldest written and consolidated constitution still in use – constitutional rights were previously unwritten and/or unconsolidated. |
What does unconsoliated mean in this context? and would the Magna Carta qualify?
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05/25/2007 02:53:48 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I must admit – I find this a fascinating insight into popular history from a US perspective. FWIW, I think that OmanOtter did a pretty good job of describing the history as I know it. However, from a UK perspective, I would make a few observations – to correct a couple of points and to highlight how history can be subjective. If nothing else, maybe it will be interesting to some.
Columbus along with almost everyone else knew that the world was spherical. Pretty much no-one thought it was flat – though they disagreed on the scale and almost none knew that the Americas lay in the way. The main issue was the loss of land caravan routes following the fall of Constantinople, not sea routes. |
Indeed this is interesting... But I wonder if any Americans can tell us where the name 'America' comes from?
And I think Columbus actually thought the world was pear shaped.
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05/25/2007 02:59:10 PM · #93 |
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05/25/2007 03:05:47 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by CoinCounter:
Originally posted by Matthew:
I must admit – I find this a fascinating insight into popular history from a US perspective. FWIW, I think that OmanOtter did a pretty good job of describing the history as I know it. However, from a UK perspective, I would make a few observations – to correct a couple of points and to highlight how history can be subjective. If nothing else, maybe it will be interesting to some.
Columbus along with almost everyone else knew that the world was spherical. Pretty much no-one thought it was flat – though they disagreed on the scale and almost none knew that the Americas lay in the way. The main issue was the loss of land caravan routes following the fall of Constantinople, not sea routes. |
Indeed this is interesting... But I wonder if any Americans can tell us where the name 'America' comes from?
And I think Columbus actually thought the world was pear shaped. |
It was a name attributed to the area by German mapmakers in honor of the voyages of Amerigo Vespucci.
I would doubt Columbus thought the world was pear shaped as people thought it was a sphere for over 500 years prior to his voyage. The first globe was marketed several years prior as well. |
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05/25/2007 03:06:46 PM · #95 |
| "Calling all North Americans"....I was hoping you'd be asking for Canadian input too. Oh well, maybe next time :) |
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05/25/2007 03:08:45 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by HaliKat:
"Calling all North Americans"....I was hoping you'd be asking for Canadian input too. Oh well, maybe next time :) |
Same thing isn't it?
:) |
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05/25/2007 03:43:50 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by HaliKat:
"Calling all North Americans"....I was hoping you'd be asking for Canadian input too. Oh well, maybe next time :) |
When did Canada disassociate itself from North America? ;o) |
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05/25/2007 04:37:25 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by bdenny:
Amerigo Vespucci |
Actually, it's probably not. More than likely it would be called 'Vespuccia' if it were.
But there was a English-Welsh Cartographer/Merchant called Richard Amerike (Ap Meurig - Son of Meurig) who it is more likely to be due to the fact that generally, only Royalty would have things named after their given names.
Message edited by author 2007-05-25 16:44:03.
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05/25/2007 07:40:25 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by CoinCounter:
[quote=Matthew] |
And I think
I would doubt Columbus thought the world was pear shaped as people thought it was a sphere for over 500 years prior to his voyage. The first globe was marketed several years prior as well. |
The Greeks knew the world was round 2000 years ago, and even calculated the circumference |
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05/25/2007 07:46:16 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by CoinCounter:
And I think Columbus actually thought the world was pear shaped. |
Finally, Columbus was right about something (other than his voyages making the King of Spain rich)!
The Earth is an oblate spheroid, and I believe the latest satellite data indicates that one pole is farther from the Equator than the other. |
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