little bugs (insect challenge) - DPChallenge Forums

04/14/2007 02:33:00 PM · #151

Originally posted by Raziel:

I also won't vote down a spider (will give bonus points to a spider eating an insect), but my submission is definitely a real insect.

Your viewpoint is laudable but I do find it interesting that you point out specifically that your submission is an insect and not an arachnid or arthropod. Is there a specific reason for that? ;) :)

Ubersteiny

Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM for Canon

04/14/2007 02:38:32 PM · #152

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Well, we went to the Bug Zoo.
I was thinking, though, that "insects" was the expert editing, not the minimal, so was working with that in mind, so nothing usable :(

But I DID get to hold a giant millipede and a tarantula and a scorpion and various stick insects, so I be a happy camper! :D

I LOVE OUR BUG ZOO! we totally should of had like a photo trip with the 2 of us at the bug zoo( well you would of probabyl said no because im tooyoung :P )

faery

Olympus E-400

Olympus 14-42mm f.3.5-5.6 ED Zuiko Digital Zoom

04/14/2007 02:40:09 PM · #153

I think a lot of the time voting can be reactionary...when I've submitted an image that fulfills all the challenge criteria (thinking of the present Night Shot and the previous Contre-Jour challenges) and I've been particularly proud of the image and have had hopes for it...but discover that voters are trashing my image for no apparent reason.... then when it comes to voting, I get very picky about whether or not other submissions have followed the challenge descriptions or not. (wow that was a long sentence!)

Conversely if I am doing okay I tend to vote others really high and I deal out a lot more 7 - 10's. There have been challenges when I've submitted and had no real ambition for my entry, and my voting is fairly unaffected by my personal score.

So if I wake up to a pleasing score and find great shots of bugzy looking critters, I will vote on whether or not it's a great image. If I wake up to a lousy score, (have submitted my very authentic insect already) I will in all likelihood be far more critical...sorry I'm just human :-(

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by idnic:
If it looks like a bug, it works for me!

This is one opinion... are there differing views? :)

04/14/2007 02:42:06 PM · #154

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

People have to realize when some of us speak of "hit hard" it doesn't take that many people to drop a score. Even 5 extra votes of 2 will drop a 6.0000 score to 5.92. That tenth probably represents 10-20 places in a small challenge.

I've gotten away from giving 1s much at all anymore, but I'll probably drop non-insect entries by a point or two.

DrAchoo(and other notables) have a way of connecting to DPC voters in ways most of us don't. That is why he has won so many ribbons. His opinion means something if you want to get "high" scores.

There are a couple things he points out of significance... One, it does not take many DNMC votes to ruin a good image's chances to ribbon. Two, he still votes dnmc, but NOT as much as he used to.

Decide for yourselves how you want to incorporate that information into your own photography.

Olympus 14-42mm f.3.5-5.6 ED Zuiko Digital Zoom

04/14/2007 02:55:13 PM · #155

Originally posted by faery:

Wow! Yours is one of the most refreshingly honest opinions about voting that I've read at DPC in a long time.

You vote the way you do because of how others vote on your own submissions. Perhaps that is true of most voters and is the REAL reason scores are so LOW at DPC. After all, we think, I won't give YOU a good score unless you give me a GOOD one.

Is that right? Obviously not because it punishes the many good images that get submitted here, but that is what we as a group do.

faery

Olympus E-400

04/14/2007 03:13:59 PM · #156

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by faery:

... wake up to a pleasing score and find great shots of bugzy looking critters, I will vote on whether or not it's a great image. If I wake up to a lousy score, (have submitted my very authentic insect already) I will in all likelihood be far more critical...sorry I'm just human :-(

Wow! Yours is one of the most refreshingly honest opinions about voting that I've read at DPC in a long time.

You vote the way you do because of how others vote on your own submissions. Perhaps that is true of most voters and is the REAL reason scores are so LOW at DPC. After all, we think, I won't give YOU a good score unless you give me a GOOD one.

Is that right? Obviously not because it punishes the many good images that get submitted here, but that is what we as a group do.

I wish I were noble enough to look beyond myself and say that I vote high regardless of my own score...but yes you sum up my thoughts on the matter well. My Best Beloved (amazingly) votes in a very selfless way...I've watched him vote over his shoulder some evenings (I'm supposed to be reading but invariably I can't resist seeing how he rates images) - no matter how badly he's doing, he will vote objectively- and is a very generous voter IMO. For the most though, we are in the end just grown up children on a play ground...the play rules stay the same even if we inhabit bigger bodies!!

I've seen a few posts in the past about "angry voters" and assume that it's something of a vicious circle: bad score leads to angry, picky voting, leads to low scores all round... BUT somehow through it all the deserving chaps always seem to come through and there are almost always a few 7+ scores... the best "man" always wins doesn't he?

Message edited by author 2007-04-14 15:14:57.

Olympus 14-42mm f.3.5-5.6 ED Zuiko Digital Zoom

04/14/2007 03:21:24 PM · #157

Originally posted by faery:

We can all learn something positive from your Best Beloved, can't we?

Originally posted by faery:

I've seen a few posts in the past about "angry voters" and assume that it's something of a vicious circle: bad score leads to angry, picky voting, leads to low scores all round... BUT somehow through it all the deserving chaps always seem to come through and there are almost always a few 7+ scores... the best "man" always wins doesn't he?

This is also a point well taken. The cream does tend to rise to the top doesn't it? It's just the crappy scores we assign them that is incompatible with our often expressed opinions about how great the photography here is that is wrong, isn't it?

faery

Olympus E-400

04/14/2007 03:28:55 PM · #158

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Too often it's because we all think that we're the creme de la creme. We (me too) need a whole lot more humility perhaps...

but now back to the cricket (that's "cricket" as in willow upon leather and not of the head, thorax,abdomen kind!!) - South Africa is taking a beating :-P talk about humility/humiliation!!

weisz

Nikon D200

04/14/2007 03:33:54 PM · #159

SO, MY CATAPILLER SHOT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS CHALLENGE? :(

weegi70

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

04/14/2007 03:41:48 PM · #160

Sigh, Im gonna pull my Submission from the chalange, It stands no chance against any "Real" Shots. I suppose some of the best images get this reaction... "Wow, Howd you get that!" and mine, would be.. "Wow, i could do that in my sleep" so... im out of this one...

darnok

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35 f/4 ED VR

04/14/2007 03:47:56 PM · #161

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Raziel:
I also won't vote down a spider (will give bonus points to a spider eating an insect), but my submission is definitely a real insect.

Your viewpoint is laudable but I do find it interesting that you point out specifically that your submission is an insect and not an arachnid or arthropod. Is there a specific reason for that? ;) :)

I think that there are too many people on this site that will trash a spider, or other non-insect bug, that I'm not going to take a chance on one. And I have a decent shot of a real insect, reduces the temptation to go hunt some spiders with my reversed 50.

Originally posted by weisz:

SO, MY CATAPILLER SHOT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS CHALLENGE? :(

As stated above you will probably get voted down badly for it. A spider might fair better than a caterpillar though, only two legs to many...

04/14/2007 04:02:19 PM · #162

Originally posted by weegi70:

I might not recommend pulling your image from the challenge. I submit images that do poorly almost every challenge I enter but, though it is often harsh, I learn something new from the process and that makes it worthwhile. You have to crawl out on a limb to get the best apples, but sometimes (often at DPC) you fall.

Futhermore, it is common I take pictures for challenges I ultimately decide NOT to enter. Nothing wrong with that either. I learn just the same, just not as much.

Nuzzer

04/14/2007 04:02:22 PM · #163

Originally posted by weisz:

SO, MY CATAPILLER SHOT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS CHALLENGE? :(

I entered a caterpillar in the recent Wildlife challenge and got quite a few DNMC comments.

I don't see why voters would have become more lateral thinking since then.

Nuzzer

04/14/2007 04:03:48 PM · #164

Originally posted by weegi70:

Keep it in. You could get some good comments and learn from it. I've entered a very DNMC shot but I hope to get some educational comments on it.

04/14/2007 04:09:49 PM · #165

Originally posted by Raziel:

... I think that there are too many people on this site that will trash a spider, or other non-insect bug, that I'm not going to take a chance on one. And I have a decent shot of a real insect, reduces the temptation to go hunt some spiders with my reversed 50.

Originally posted by weisz:
SO, MY CATAPILLER SHOT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS CHALLENGE? :(

As stated above you will probably get voted down badly for it. A spider might fair better than a caterpillar though, only two legs to many...

And therein lies the rub... what is more important, good photography or meeting the challenge?

We don't really know. More DNMCers still need to express their opinions.

04/14/2007 04:13:26 PM · #166

Originally posted by Nuzzer:

Originally posted by weisz:
SO, MY CATAPILLER SHOT WILL NOT WORK FOR THIS CHALLENGE? :(

I entered a caterpillar in the recent Wildlife challenge and got quite a few DNMC comments.

I don't see why voters would have become more lateral thinking since then.

Yours is the non-DNMCer view. The real question is, what do DNMCers think?

DrAchoo has already rightly pointed out that it takes very few DNMC votes to ruin a "good" photograph's chance at earning a ribbon. Why should that be?

SteveJ

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

04/14/2007 04:17:23 PM · #167

If you want ribbons, then you have to comply with what DPCers think they want. If you want good photography, then just go and do it, regardless of DNMC.

I have the attitude, I take what I like and if it fits the challenges, great. But, 99% of my photos never make it to DPC, they satisfy me and they are fun to do.

There lies the crux of the matter, keep it as fun.

weegi70

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

04/14/2007 04:21:42 PM · #168

Alright, Image stays, but if you see mine... be kind... its my first time and as everybody knows, its a little wierd your first time, and things happen so fast, and before you know it, its over...

so be gentle...

darnok

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35 f/4 ED VR

04/14/2007 04:23:33 PM · #169

Originally posted by formerlee:

That's also my approach. If what I have been shooting can work in a challenge then I enter it. I shot the spider for my "Famous Last Words" entry without knowing of the challenge, just because I like doing macros, when I saw that I could get it in, I did. DPC is not the be all and end all of photography. I try not to enter something that I know will be slaughtered, but I do take chances often enough.

SteveJ

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

04/14/2007 04:23:38 PM · #170

Originally posted by weegi70:

Yep, first time can be premature...so just hold back a bit and wait for the climax of the challenge :)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35 f/4 ED VR

04/14/2007 04:28:47 PM · #171

Originally posted by formerlee:

Agreed, photography should be fun. But how fun is it when the images you submit week after week get lousy scores?

One thing you don't mention, but I am sure that you are well aware of, is that it is uncommon to take pictures under normal circumstances during a challenge week that perfectly meets the challenge topic but that, after all, is what is expected and demanded of DNMC voters.

The question becomes... what is more important, good photography or meeting the challenge? What do DNMCers think?

darnok

Nikon D850

04/14/2007 04:35:30 PM · #172

Originally posted by stdavidson:

One thing you don't mention, but I am sure that you are well aware of, is that it is uncommon to take pictures under normal circumstances during a challenge week that perfectly meets the challenge topic but that, after all, is what is expected and demanded of DNMC voters.

What I normally shoot usually doesn't coincide with the challenges. Take Night Shot IV for example, got some nice night photos the week before it challenge, got a great one the day after is closed, but the weather would just not cooperate when I had time to shoot during the challenge week.

04/14/2007 04:40:39 PM · #173

Originally posted by weegi70:

Best wishes for a "good" score, whatever that might be in your case, but don't be surprised if it is lower than expectations. Most scores are. There are two reasons for that. One, it really isn't very good and you need to learn more about photography or... Two, it is simply scored low because of DNMC. There is a difference between the two but that may be hard to distinguish. It is possible you can take a 'good' or even 'great' picture but it will score low because voters feel it does not meet the challenge well. That makes it harder to improve your photography if you do not understand the difference.

SteveJ