Selling out - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

02/09/2007 12:05:54 PM · #1

Is it better to stick to your guns and shoot what you want, or is it okay to shoot something voter friendly to get a higher score, even if you don't much like the style or result ?

Or can you do both and sell out occasionally but take what you like, for yourself...

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

02/09/2007 12:08:05 PM · #2

It is competition man. You want to win shoot what will win. That's not selling out IMO it is competing.

For everything else there is master card.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

02/09/2007 12:14:11 PM · #3

What he said: it's a competition. If you want to be a winner, shoot to score. To the extent that you don't care about winning, shoot to further whatever agenda floats your boat. It's OK to strike a healthy balance between the two; I think I do that. A lot of my entries are doomed, and I am aware of it. Some, I am making an arcane point. Others, I am having fun. Some, I just had a really lousy brain-freeze. And every now and then, I determine it's a good challenge to make a freaking SCORE in, and I go all out to please the voters.

The variety keeps me sane :-)

R.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

02/09/2007 12:23:53 PM · #4

How would you define "selling out"?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

02/09/2007 12:31:05 PM · #5

Originally posted by pawdrix:

How would you define "selling out"?

Shooting something blatantly commercial and in a genre that doesn't interest you, just because you think it would appeal more to the voters than it might actually appeal to you. I just entered a shot like that - I hope it does well but it leaves me feeling empty when I look at it. Just not a style of photography that I'm interested in any more, other than because it might do well here.

I'm only picking up on the term 'selling out' from the thread about e301's trick cyclist. It probably sounds a whole lot more serious than I actually mean :)

E.g.,
This vs This

One was pandering to the voters, one is an image I actually like and find interesting. The scores are almost exactly the opposite that I'd give them :)

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 12:35:01.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

02/09/2007 12:38:59 PM · #6

Unless you only shoot for challenges I suspect that mostly you "take what you like, for yourself".

I don't see anything wrong with trying to please the voters either, especially if one is looking for a professional career. After all, a pro has to please his clients to stay in business.

The conflict comes when taking shots for ourselves isn't enough; when we want/need recognition and acceptance of our personal vision.
There are so many photographers out there vying for attention that great ones go unseen unless they are already recognised as good "commercial" photographers. Most galleries, for example, will choose a "name" over an unknown, right?

But if you have to spend all your time and energy on producing what others want, to build up that name, what's left for creating your vision? It would get pretty painful beating your head against the brick wall repeatedly and saying "Look! THIS is what I really want to show you! Can't you SEE? Why won't you take the time to look and think??"

So the tricky part is finding the balance. I guess it's deciding just what's most important to you and how, in the long run, to best achieve that.

edit to add a PS...

Personally, I find what's commonly called "selling out" a challenge in itself; to try, despite my own personal likes and dislikes, to create an image that people will like and connect with.

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 12:42:33.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

02/09/2007 12:47:13 PM · #7

Woody Allen once said (to paraphrase) given the option of making an enduring movie classic and a boatload of money Hollywood will always go for the money.

I'd like to think, that I myself would choose to make an enduring classic.

I enter because the Challenges give me something to shoot, they get me out there and watching the score is a pleasant diversion from the daily routines. I never expect to win and even if I tried really hard I'm not sure I could pull it off.

Selling out to me would be, if I knew, for certain that DPC voters went crazy over Times Square Fisheye shots and I entered them all the time, to get Ribbons. If could be doing something more challenging, that pushes, moves or shakes, I would say that I was compromising myself.

BeeCee, makes a great point point when she mentions "want or need of recognition or acceptance" and Bear's "healthy balance" makes the most sense.

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 12:54:13.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

02/09/2007 12:53:49 PM · #8

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Wouldn't the real trick to be to make an enduring movie classic that makes a boatload of money ?

By the same token, is it only selling out if my image actually does well ? Check back next week to see that I didn't really sell out at all and the voters still don't understand me ? ;)

chunky

Canon EOS-20D

02/09/2007 12:59:49 PM · #9

I think there is another aspect here. When you work outside of what you typically shoot, or outside of your comfort level; it challenges you to think more, it keeps you from getting lazy, and you often learn something valuable. It is often the things that you don't want to do that have the greatest impact on your growth.

nicklevy

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/09/2007 01:06:51 PM · #10

I do think that if once Wayne Gretzky would have had the occasion of pushing the puck with is stick into the goal and score while lying down on the ice he would have done it. I can't imagine him saying to a journalist, "this was not the kind of goal I like to score so I just passed on it."

CNovack

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/09/2007 01:08:10 PM · #11

If I see a challenge that inspires me I will shoot what my inner muse compels me too. If my photograph strikes a chord and makes a connection to the/my audience that is a bonus. Point is, I don't enter a challenge JUST for the sake of entering or entering because it will score exceptionally high. A challenge will have to strike a chord with me that I would make the effort to pick up my camera and shoot. My top three reasons on entering a challenge are I enter to challenge myself (by learning/trying new things), to take inspiration from the various challenges that come up here at this site, and listen to feedback (the good and the bad) from my peers.

I am very critical of my work so it first has to pass muster with me before I will submit here. Once I deem my photograph as high calibre work that passes my standards I am most interested to hear feedback from my peers on what they think, likes & dislikes, pros & cons, and what can be improved.

For me 'selling out' would be not to listen to my inner muse and shoot for the mass audience appeal. I have to like it before I will post it.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention having fun helps too:-)

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 13:12:40.

nards656

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/09/2007 01:15:22 PM · #12

What about those of us who can't get into the top 50 to save our lives? Is trying to score a ribbon "selling out" if you're not capable?

The concept of "selling out" is an insult invented by punk bands who don't like other punk bands to experience commercial success. It's a crock, IMHO. If trying to win ribbons happens to please my inner muse, who has the right to say that I'm selling out?

And besides, I'm not capable of winning ribbons, so how could I sell out?

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

02/09/2007 01:16:33 PM · #13

Originally posted by nicklevy:

...but he was being paid millions of dollars to win, any way he could.

If your only goal is to win by all means, win but some people would like to accomplish more than that, I'd assume. There is more than winning. As Bear said...his agenda changes, as it goes. I'd love to win but it doesn't out muscle my desire to spend time or effort on shooting (or trying to shoot) enduring images.

So what do we as individuals really want to accomplish?

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 13:31:39.