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11/08/2003 12:18:42 AM · #1 |
Does the Canon Digital Rebel 300D have Black and White mode BUILT into the camera or do you have to edit it in a software program to get that? I just bought it tonight and can't find the modes
Message edited by author 2003-11-08 00:18:55. |
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11/08/2003 12:22:45 AM · #2 |
I do not know for certain, but would be 99% sure it doesn't.
I have the 10D and that doesn't have B&W mode, so I very much doubt the 300D will (as they are very similar offerings in many ways). |
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11/08/2003 12:27:27 AM · #3 |
| Ditto to what Natator said and my friend just bought the 300 and I believe she said it had to be desaturated. |
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11/08/2003 12:33:59 AM · #4 |
I don't have either Canon. But, given that the 330d is aimed at the pro-sumer market, it wouldn't surprise me if it did have a b&w function.
I've just checked the review on DPreview, but couldn't find any info about b&w.
Anyway, it doesn't have spot metering, making it less than useless.
I'm saving up for the Nikon D100
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11/08/2003 01:09:24 AM · #5 |
| No it doesn't have that feature. You have to do it in post-processing with image editor. :( |
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11/08/2003 09:50:14 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Anyway, it doesn't have spot metering, making it less than useless. I'm saving up for the Nikon D100 |
This statement made me laugh. Mostly because of the "making it less than useless" statement, but also because I didn't realize there were people who decided on a camera system based on whether or not a current model has or doesn't have a spot meter.
In my opinion, the question you (or anyone else considering a move to DSLR for that matter) should be asking is:
What lens system do I want to buy?
The lenses you put on the body and the flash you stick on top will make or break your images. You will also keep the lenses and flash longer than the body. Canon has a wider variety of lenses (for example, more USM [Ultra Sonic Motor for incredibly fast and quiet focusing] and IS [Image Stabilized] lenses than Nikon does AF-S and VR), not to mention Canon glass is less expensive that Nikon.
Plus, the 10D has partial spot metering (9%, indicated by the circle in the middle of the viewfinder), which I find more than adequate, especially with a zoom lens attached.
Message edited by author 2003-11-08 09:58:50. |
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11/12/2003 06:56:47 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
In my opinion, the question you (or anyone else considering a move to DSLR for that matter) should be asking is:
What lens system do I want to buy?
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But if the camera doesn't have features you want, buying that particular product won't help. Another product which uses your chosen lens system will be more likely.
Originally posted by EddyG:
Plus, the 10D has partial spot metering (9%, indicated by the circle in the middle of the viewfinder), which I find more than adequate, especially with a zoom lens attached. |
This particular thread was about the 300d.
I'm going to stick to my 'less than useless' statement for the 300d. A spot meter is vital, even a 9% one is preferable. Pros use hand-held ones when their equipment doesn't have one built in. It's that important. Otherwise, we'll be taking risks with exposure all the time. |
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11/12/2003 07:14:31 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Anyway, it doesn't have spot metering, making it less than useless. I'm saving up for the Nikon D100 |
This statement made me laugh. Mostly because of the "making it less than useless" statement, but also because I didn't realize there were people who decided on a camera system based on whether or not a current model has or doesn't have a spot meter.
In my opinion, the question you (or anyone else considering a move to DSLR for that matter) should be asking is:
What lens system do I want to buy?
The lenses you put on the body and the flash you stick on top will make or break your images. You will also keep the lenses and flash longer than the body. Canon has a wider variety of lenses (for example, more USM [Ultra Sonic Motor for incredibly fast and quiet focusing] and IS [Image Stabilized] lenses than Nikon does AF-S and VR), not to mention Canon glass is less expensive that Nikon.
Plus, the 10D has partial spot metering (9%, indicated by the circle in the middle of the viewfinder), which I find more than adequate, especially with a zoom lens attached. |
Completely disagree. I have decided to buy a Panasonic FZ10 instead of a Rebel for a few reasons... the lack of a spot-meter was VERY high on my list. I'd rather wait for the price of DSLRs to drop, which is inevitable when the other manufacturers bring out new cameras to do battle with the Rebel. I'm not prepared to pay money I can't really afford on expensive lenses when I can't be sure the metering system I'm using is going to give me reliable results. The Rebel uses a plethora of automatic modes over which the user has little manual control, and I'm not willing to pay lots of money to LOSE control over what I'm doing. I'm quite happy to bide my time.
Bob |
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11/12/2003 07:20:30 PM · #9 |
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times.
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11/12/2003 07:41:23 PM · #10 |
I've had great success working the way John suggests, it had never held me back (but then, where I am at, I have lots more chance of moving forward anyway ;)
I found the dismissal of the D10 on those grounds quite hillarious actually, especially when I keep seeing reviews on the D100 where it doesn't even make the top 3 cameras, which must obviously be fantastic and not useless as it has spot metering.
Both cameras are exceptional tools I believe, to dismiss either as useless is ridiculous.
The best review I read, Steve's digicams maybe, I forget, basically gave a good bit of advice of .... if you have a lens for either go for that one, as they are both great cameras. Buying from reviews alone, and if I didn't have a lens at all, I'd go D10 over D100 every time as it seems to be gettinf far better press (though sometimes that can be the result of good PR departments) and winning more rewards (although maybe that is just in the mags I read).
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11/12/2003 07:49:06 PM · #11 |
I intend to buy a handheld spot meter in the future. I need one for another camera I have and I would love to have it for use with the 10d also.
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11/12/2003 07:55:02 PM · #12 |
I have no idea how to use such a beast. Once I've "mastered" the more basic principles I might look further though.
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11/12/2003 08:00:41 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
Would you mind detailing full evaluative metering, John? Ellamay misses the spot-metering option on her new 300D as well. I'm sure she'll benefit from a lil how-to. |
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11/12/2003 08:01:58 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
Would you mind detailing full evaluative metering, John? Ellamay misses the spot-metering option on her new 300D as well. I'm sure she'll benefit from a lil how-to. |
The evaluative metering or 'matrix metering' is when your camera takes readings from multiple points across your entire frame and averages the readings to come up with an exposure setting.
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11/12/2003 08:41:42 PM · #15 |
It would appear that the Digital Rebel is more of an upgraded Digicam than a downgraded DSLR. I guess it all depends on the market you're going for. The key reason for buying my D100 (and no, I'm not a Nikon v. Canon bigot - the 10D hadn't been released at that time), was that I was continually frustrated by the lack of creative control offered by my digicam (again, purchased back when DSLR's were retailing for many thousands of dollars).
Seems to me like a real case of caveat emptor, and in many respects the Digital Rebel may not in fact be such a bargain after all.
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11/12/2003 08:49:06 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
Would you mind detailing full evaluative metering, John? Ellamay misses the spot-metering option on her new 300D as well. I'm sure she'll benefit from a lil how-to. |
The evaluative metering or 'matrix metering' is when your camera takes readings from multiple points across your entire frame and averages the readings to come up with an exposure setting. |
How do you a) initiate and achieve this on the 300D and b) are values displayed within the VF or applied to the next shot? |
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11/12/2003 09:06:16 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
Would you mind detailing full evaluative metering, John? Ellamay misses the spot-metering option on her new 300D as well. I'm sure she'll benefit from a lil how-to. |
The evaluative metering or 'matrix metering' is when your camera takes readings from multiple points across your entire frame and averages the readings to come up with an exposure setting. |
How do you a) initiate and achieve this on the 300D and b) are values displayed within the VF or applied to the next shot? |
In the evaluative metering mode, the first step in the process would be to determine if aperture or shutter speed is the priority for the image. In most cases, it will be aperture, so set your camera in the fully manual mode and choose your desired aperture.
Move into your scene and fill the frame with the area you want to use for metering (a gray card is nice to have). Adjust the shutter speed until your meter in the viewfinder is on zero (in the middle of the bar graph). You should have a correct exposure if you have chosen an appropriate area for metering.
Walk back to your point of composition and make the photo.
This is more easily demonstrated live than in a message forum :)
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11/12/2003 09:07:27 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by ronners:
It would appear that the Digital Rebel is more of an upgraded Digicam than a downgraded DSLR. I guess it all depends on the market you're going for. The key reason for buying my D100 (and no, I'm not a Nikon v. Canon bigot - the 10D hadn't been released at that time), was that I was continually frustrated by the lack of creative control offered by my digicam (again, purchased back when DSLR's were retailing for many thousands of dollars).
Seems to me like a real case of caveat emptor, and in many respects the Digital Rebel may not in fact be such a bargain after all. |
I think the rebel is a bargain at $1000. I think it has its drawbacks, but I think it was a smart move by Canon :)
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11/12/2003 09:12:40 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Natator:
Both cameras are exceptional tools I believe, to dismiss either as useless is ridiculous. |
Actually, I was being a touch tongue-in-cheek when I wrote that. However, I won't buy the 300d (digital kiss, here) because of the lack of control Bobster mentions as well as the lack of spot metre.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. |
A very common procedure, but not always practical, as John points out. This, and John's intention to buy a handheld metre, supports my contention that they are vital.
Or are they?
Recently, I've been making sure that the scene falls comfortably within and roughly at an accurate place on the histogram to ensure flexibility during editing. If that's important, and I have a tripod handy, I'll take two shots and blend them together later. (Not DPC-legal, but there is life beyond these silicon walls.) |
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11/12/2003 09:27:24 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
I'm not spending that amount of money to have to do this with all my photos. For the photography I want to carry out with a high end camera (gigs, festivals, candid portraits), this is completely impractical. |
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11/12/2003 09:47:18 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
I'm not spending that amount of money to have to do this with all my photos. For the photography I want to carry out with a high end camera (gigs, festivals, candid portraits), this is completely impractical. |
For that kind of work, I would find spot metering useless anyway. I can't imagine using spot metering for anything but maybe your portraits and I would be metering with a grey card for those anyway.
I'm sure everyone has their preferred methods tho :)
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11/12/2003 09:52:14 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
For the photography I want to carry out with a high end camera (gigs, festivals, candid portraits), this is completely impractical. |
For that kind of work, I would find spot metering useless anyway. |
Actually, spot metering works best in these highly varied lighting conditions. At a gig, where there's only a spotlight on the singer, for example, evaluative metering would overexpose the face. Spot metering on the face gives enough information for exposure choices. |
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11/12/2003 10:03:23 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
...In the evaluative metering mode, the first step... is... |
Thanks, John. Knowing her, this won't be much of a comfort, but, at least, some of her shots should benefit from knowing this. Frankly, I spot-meter just about everything too.
Message edited by author 2003-11-12 22:03:43. |
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11/12/2003 10:40:05 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
For the photography I want to carry out with a high end camera (gigs, festivals, candid portraits), this is completely impractical. |
For that kind of work, I would find spot metering useless anyway. |
Actually, spot metering works best in these highly varied lighting conditions. At a gig, where there's only a spotlight on the singer, for example, evaluative metering would overexpose the face. Spot metering on the face gives enough information for exposure choices. |
It's late and I'm now writting gibberish. I stand by my earlier comments, but am going to stop now and get some sleep!
Message edited by author 2003-11-12 22:42:25. |
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11/12/2003 10:49:42 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Spot metering is not a real necessity, even though it is nice to have. You can simply walk into your scene, fill the frame with what you want to meter on, and use full evaluative metering to take a reading and set your camera. This is not always possible, but when it is, it works fine. I have done it many times. |
Frankly I think this is bad advice. It might well work on average scenes, but trying to use the evaluative metering as a spot meter or to make manual exposure readings is going to be plagued with inconsistant results.
If you are going to go to the trouble of trying to meter the scene and I assume correct the exposure appropriately, it doesn't make sense to use the evaluative meter mode which might, or might not meter for an average grey (18% or 13% depending on which tangental issue you want to go off on)
The evaulative meter might well meter one stop above or one stop below a mid tone - but you can't reliably predict that. It isn't the correct mode to use to emulate spot metering. Though the lack of a spot meter mode is about the one most frustrating thing with my current D60. Yes you can work around it but it is annoying.
You can do this at least reliably using partial or center weighted mode, if you get close enough to fill the center circle with the tone that you want to meter, then compensate appropriately to place it correctly on a scale from black to white tones
Message edited by author 2003-11-12 22:56:48.
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