New site online - DPChallenge Forums

11/04/2003 03:04:47 PM · #1

Hi All,

I have put online the very first version of PhoTournament.com.

It is fully functional, however most of the functions are not visible because no PhoTournament has started (or concluded) yet.

There are three PhoTournaments announced already, one for each category (Candid, Digital Photography, PhotoArt).

They are visible only to the members registered as 'Challengers'.
They accept submissions and they will close after 100 submission being "promoted" to the Scrutiny stage.

The site requires also 'Judges' (not 'Challengers') as another type/role of membership.

Please feel free to ask for more information whenever needed.

The site is at a very early stage, so it does not make any sense to propose a link exchange with DPC but, of course, I am pretty happy to consider all sorts of collaborations.

Message edited by author 2003-11-04 15:06:08.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/04/2003 04:23:13 PM · #2

Hi

Will have to look around some more but one quick comment.

I suggest you make the subscribe area https i.e. secure. You are asking for personal information and I for one never submit such info unless it is https (I am sure the DPC was secure - famous last words!)

Just had another look at DPC reg, the basic reg is non secure but payment was! Doh. But you are asking for more detailed personal info in the non secure environment.

Just my 2p's worth at this time.

:~)

Message edited by author 2003-11-04 16:26:52.

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

11/04/2003 04:27:22 PM · #3

I was just about to register as it seems a nice idea (i read your faq earlier on these forums) but I don't feel comfortable registering with my address and phone number. These don't seem like neccessary pieces of information. If you want an ID check, why not just use email addresses?

Also the repetition of "This is for real people, not fakes" really isnt very welcoming for the first page people will properly visit, and it felt quite patronising.

Message edited by author 2003-11-04 16:30:12.

Faye Pekas

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/04/2003 05:07:41 PM · #4

Nuther suggestion. Maybe alternating the judges and challengers. Judge one month and enter challenges the next.. something like that. I'm afraid I would get bored just judging. Its a rather thankless job and people would probably not stay for long.

And I agree with Konador about the need for addresses and phone numbers.

11/04/2003 05:10:01 PM · #5

Regarding user info and security.

There are many means to buy the address (or other info such as phone, e-mail etc.) without having to crack a non-secure, but still diffucult to hack, protocol like HTTP.
For instance, here in UK anybody can buy the Electoral Register and there we are....

In my experience with the Net, and software in general, it is important not to leave big doors open but forget to close all of them. It would just drive to madness because if somebody can hack HTTP, then he/she will find a way to go in anyway...

Regarding the information that I ask, yes, it is a bit more than the usual required because it includes a phone number and an address, but any living being has it and, in exchange, I can send mine to whoever had his/her identity checked.

Apart for formalities, it is just an effort to get through the Internet anonimity which I respect very much but that is not appropriate for everything.

The site scope is to give out total transparency about what is happening. However, in the user details appears just the following:

username, real-name, country and role (Judge or Challenger).

But if a Challenger ask me who Judged his/her submission, I need to have that answer in some format.

That format is already defined and working for PhoTournament: Judges will have a sort of "Portfolio" made by the photos (3) that they picked in each tournament showed in the relevance order (1st best, 2nd best and 3rd best).

It looks like an apparently "hard-life" for judges but it is an important and interesting role and I will do my best to show them that it is definitely worthwhile.

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

11/04/2003 05:17:30 PM · #6

Originally posted by fayepek:

Many things can change on PT (let's start saving some letters) but the alternation is not going to happen now and never on PT.

That's because Judge or Challenger are different careers on PT.

I expect Challengers to be 90% even more, much more, of the members, while Judges will be very difficult to "recruit" at start.

But the typical Judge is somebody who enjoys photography (and photoart) thoroughly, it is probably over 30/40, it has a good experience, skills and originality. He probably has one or more galleries on the net, and maybe his personal website, and it is looking to better qualify his status by showing to people that he can judge with excellent taste.

The separation of roles on PT is essential to the site's scope.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/04/2003 05:20:12 PM · #7

Is the membership agreement supposed to be a legal document ? It feels like its been cut and pasted from one, rather than put together by a lawyer. There seem to be some fundamental clauses missing.

I also wouldn't really want to hand out personal information to a non-secure site - https isn't that secure but it is at least similar to locking the door. http is like leaving your windows wide open...

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

11/04/2003 05:21:46 PM · #8

Sounds paranoid.

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/04/2003 05:30:24 PM · #9

Personally, I wouldn't hand out my address and phone number to register. Also, I didn't see a privacy statement, which means I definately wouldn't hand out my personal info - even more so on a non-secure site. With all due respect, getting your address and phone in return wouldn't help me to feel any better...

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/04/2003 05:33:16 PM · #10

I'll be interested to see how many people are willing to have you call them in their home just to verify identity for something where it's really not all that important anyway. I wouldn't allow any online store to call me to verify and that has to do with real money, not fake. Are you going to do background checks on people or how are you going to confirm that any of those things match up to the name?

xhoss

Kodak DX6490

11/04/2003 05:37:42 PM · #11

Phone number and address? "...for real people, not fakes."

sorry glimpses - your idea sounds good in theory, but asking for personal info probably won't get you far on the net...

I for one have an unlisted number and address info...where is this info stored? how is it stored? what safeguards are on it? what is your liability on the info? what is your policy on sharing information with "partners"? If the answers to these questions are there, I didn't see them.

...I wish your site all the best, however, my2cents would be to drop the noble idea of "all real people". Your the site admin - just drop memberships that you see as suspect.

OneSweetSin

Nikon D3000

11/04/2003 05:43:49 PM · #12

anyone who tries to call me at home either will get my answering machine or if I answer...I am never home...until I know exactly who is calling...messes with the telemarketers really well.

LOL I am always the babysitter...gee wonder if I am ever at home.

11/04/2003 05:51:06 PM · #13

I would not stress this issue.

After all, the site rules are meant to be flexible within the scope of the site (not out of it).

I wanted it a bit different, and I am sure I will have to do very few phone calls during the year.

Ultimately, as I mentioned in another thread, it would be pretty boring if all the sites were the same...

I think that differences among sites will make each site better.

11/04/2003 06:14:18 PM · #14

I do not have a problem with "different" when it comes to "sites" (currently trying to get my own idea of a Gallery based site looking the way I want - not a website guru just want it right).

Sorry back to the point. Any site IMO that requests personal data needs to reassure potential subscribers that the information will be treated within a privacy agreement that is enforceable. Just making your site different in respect of the data entry without the commonly accepted practices of privacy statement AND secure entry is for me a no-no.

But the web is made up of a very diverse community and no doubt there will be some that are are happy with a site such the one you are developing but (sadly) not for me at this time.

:~(

11/04/2003 06:17:29 PM · #15

Originally posted by visitor:

But the web is made up of a very diverse community and no doubt there will be some that are are happy with a site such the one you are developing but (sadly) not for me at this time.

:~(

The beauty of life is that we can always change our mind. =)

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/04/2003 06:18:38 PM · #16

I signed up!
Doesn't bother me giving up personal info!

The info is public anyway ,just go to //www.smartpages.com owned by SBC.

11/04/2003 06:29:56 PM · #17

Just another thought?

Though the web is transnational and all the legal enforcement issues that entails, in the UK we have the "Data Protection Act". From what I can recall this act says that any recorded information especially electronically obtained must be held securely and not made publicly available without the consent of the person (whose info it is) concerned.

In addition anyone holding such info has to be registered for the keeping of such info. This applies even if the information concerned could have been obtained from public records - electoral role and such like.

This is only a precise of my understanding no doubt the actual document runs to many hundreds of pages. But basically it comes back why the information is needed and how it will be stored & used.

Sorry if I did not read "your terms" before commenting in this way but the use of any personal information especially in this connected world needs to be done in a mutually acceptable way.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

11/04/2003 06:46:26 PM · #18

Originally posted by visitor:

without the consent of the person (whose info it is) concerned.

That's what the Terms and Conditions of the service are for..

If you read them (and they have been reviewed by two different legal offices), they require the user to accept the service as it is (in short..).

And the reason is simple: the service is free and made for fun.

You do not want to release your phone number? Far enough. Nobody is gonna force you to do it.

I do not really understand in practical sense, where you are aiming to.

My impression is that you would like to make an use of the law which is a bit extreme in this case.

If you can find a service which is offered in the way you like it, please show me why and I will try to understand your point.

Jeanseb

Sony DSC-V1

11/04/2003 06:58:36 PM · #19

I've found the idea interesting, but your registration process is really too long and too picky. Why do you need my mailing address and my phone number? If I dont fill thm, I cant register. So I dont register.

amsmyth

Nikon D50

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G ED

11/04/2003 07:02:58 PM · #20

How are the images themselves being protected?

tfaust

Canon EOS 80D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/04/2003 07:09:14 PM · #21

Originally posted by pitsaman:

The info is public anyway ,just go to //www.smartpages.com owned by SBC.

Ah yes Pits - many resources such as this - but I assure you not everyone will find their information listed here.

Glimpses - I read through your terms and found nothing of a privacy statement. Why you are collecting, how you will store it and if you will sell it, etc... more and more web sites are posting this information even if they don't collect addresses and phone numbers. It's important to web surfers. More people will want to feel this kind of security over the ones that do not. How does it put you out any to provide a little security on your site?

Message edited by author 2003-11-04 19:09:30.

11/04/2003 07:20:49 PM · #22

Hi glimpses

It is not my intention to go anywhere with my input other to express my view and concerns, which are personal to me as whether or not I join/subscribe a particular service.

I apologise if you have taken my comments as personal to you, that was not and never would be my intention. This is afterall a public forum where the sharing of views is encouraged and as far as I am concerned personal attacks or insults are the very worst type of behaviour.

I, like you, joined this DPC community to exchange my thoughts about matters photographic and to discuss diverse subjects including those pertaining to other,like, sites such as the one you offering to members here.

By mentioning the Data Protection Act I was not trying use the law because as you rightly intimate it is my choice as whether I wish to subscribe to your site.

However, to mix my metaphors I sometimes have a "White Knight" approach to life and just wanted to give "a heads up" to others by expressing my personal concerns re: disclosing information about myself in the web wide public domain.

I have no desire to make this a discussion about the rights or wrongs of how a service should be offered. It will be an entirely personal choice by others here as to whether they subscribe or not.

Lastly, I do wish you luck with your endeavour. Diversity is to be valued and I look forward seeing how your idea works out and what subscribers from DPC think about it as it develops.

:~)

11/04/2003 07:22:24 PM · #23

Firstly, apologies if I will disappear after midnight.
It's 00:07 GMT here. =)

I will try to answer to any question asap anyway.

Originally posted by amsmyth:

How are the images themselves being protected?

What do you mean by protected? Protected by what? Cut and Paste? Copyright issues? Preview during the submission or scrutiny stage? Direct access hacking the url? Other dangers?

[quote=Jeanseb]Why do you need my mailing address and my phone number?{/quote]

That point which has been raised a few times already is a double edge issue... what problem do you have in providing them?

If you think that I would call you over-night or that I would sell the number to some hideous marketing company (like those who break my privacy on a daily basis and I rather doubt they had my number from the Net...) then just do not subscribe.

If you have concerns which make you not possible to think positively about an initiative, then just do not be part of it. Isn't that easy?

Besides, like 99.99999% of the sites out there (and I could have written 100%), I am not doing any check on phone numbers or addresses... I just wanted to underline that there is some strong control to avoid "false users" which basically are users which arrive on the site not to use it for what it is meant for.

And that's all really.

Good night.