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01/17/2007 05:44:57 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by nards656:
How much you wanna bet she signed some sort of damages waiver? While it doesn't remove the blame from the radio station in MY eyes, it may change the legal status tremendously.
The shame of this is that it didn't have to happen. Foolish DJs after ratings.
To the friend of this person - I'm so sorry. This is terrible. My prayers are with those poor kids. |
She did, but many lawyers are already saying the waiver is bogus and only applies to known risks. Or something to that effect.
I've known about water intoxication since I was ~8 years old. I always take it for granted that people should be smarter than they actually are. |
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01/17/2007 06:16:09 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by _eug:
I had a friend who went to Denver on business and received lots of warnings to "drink lots of water to avoid dehydration." She went a little overboard and ended up in the hospital for water intoxication. She was astounded since she'd never heard of it before. Spent 3 or 4 days in the hospital.
Crazy stuff. Everything in moderation, right? |
It's best to mix alcohol with the water. At least you'll pass out
before you drink too much. You'll enjoy the experience much more too! ;)
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01/17/2007 06:48:56 PM · #28 |
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01/17/2007 08:01:12 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
I've known about water intoxication since I was ~8 years old. I always take it for granted that people should be smarter than they actually are. |
People are getting worked up over the radio station for having the contest but people ultimately have to take responsibility for themselves. The dangers are well known and you know you're taking a risk before you even begin. |
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01/18/2007 07:59:48 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
I've known about water intoxication since I was ~8 years old. I always take it for granted that people should be smarter than they actually are. |
People are getting worked up over the radio station for having the contest but people ultimately have to take responsibility for themselves. The dangers are well known and you know you're taking a risk before you even begin. |
I don't know that the dangers are that well known. I'm trained and certified in first aid and I had never heard of this before. I doubt that 10% of people have heard of it. Most likely, the deceased did not know about water intoxication, or at least that she could die from it, or one would expect she would have gotten herself to medical care given that she had a headache bad enough to warrant taking a sick day from work. Sadly, we'll never know that now.
What we do know, though, is that the radio station staff was warned about the possibility by a nurse who called in to the show, and chose to ignore that warning and press on. In fact, several times during the show they joked about the possibility of someone dying from the contest.
To address the waiver point: Even if a waiver was signed, a waiver does not protect against gross negligence, only ordinary negligence. Gross negligence is defined as:
Negligence beyond the ordinary; a reckless or wanton disregard of the duty of care toward others.
Had the DJ's not been warned about the health risks of their contest, I'd argue that this is simple negligence (and maybe not even that) and that this was nothing more than a very tragic accident for which they should not be held criminally or civilly liable. At the point where they received the advice of a medical professional, and chose to disregard and even ridicule it, I believe they crossed over the line into gross negligence. Apparently the county sheriff's office feels the same, because after initially saying they weren't investigating this, their homicide unit has since taken up the case after hearing a tape of the show.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-01-18 08:00:08.
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01/18/2007 08:34:33 AM · #31 |
You would think that any radio station would take the guess work out of this sort of thing and consult experts before doing ANYTHING! Geez, with everyone suing everyone over tiny crap, you'd think they'd want to avoid legitimate complaints like, oh I dunno, someone DYING on their show!!! by maybe asking a doctor first.
Just sayin....
And I personally don't know where 2 gallons of water would be able to go in my body at one time. That's crazy. |
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01/18/2007 08:39:17 AM · #32 |
Yes, definitely first time I heard of it...
The ignorance has more to do with it's relevance ...I mean I live in an area where drinkable water is a rare resourse for the under-privileged..so telling them about the problems of over consumption of water will make them laugh...stupid eh..when they don't have any water...
I suppose an excess of anything is stupid...but those initiating something stupid unnecessarily are just as guilty..
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01/18/2007 09:09:06 AM · #33 |
Well said, Terry (Clubjuggle) both in terms of it not being something that "most" people will know about (I was vaguely aware that too much water could indeed harm the health but had no idea that the volumes required could actually be relatively low) and also in terms of their reaction to the specific warning from the nurse being what takes it into the realms of gross negligence - they could no longer, at that point, claim to be ignorant of the dangers.
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01/18/2007 09:31:51 AM · #34 |
Good grief. All I can do is shake my head sadly. Words fail me.
My cousin told me that, during harvesting or seeding, she can sometimes drink up to 9 litres of water through the day. Of course she answers natures call when necessary, for she is still with us. I have heard that unless you also drink some electrolytes - gatorade, powerade etc - drinking that much water can leech minerals out of your system. I didn't know it could be fatal.
Organisers of events (stunts) like this should take a leaf out of the Mythbsters' book of wisdom: whenever something is potentially dangerous, getting painted all over with gold, getting buried alive, etc, they ALWAYS have medics close by. |
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01/18/2007 09:49:01 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Had the DJ's not been warned about the health risks of their contest, I'd argue that this is simple negligence (and maybe not even that) and that this was nothing more than a very tragic accident for which they should not be held criminally or civilly liable. ~Terry |
Somebody somewhere is always criminally or civilly liable whether it's right or wrong. Everything that happens to people is always someone elses fault. Just ask'em.
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01/18/2007 10:13:05 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
To address the waiver point: Even if a waiver was signed, a waiver does not protect against gross negligence, only ordinary negligence. |
Interesting - in the UK, any clause limiting liability for personal injury or death is void.
I attended a go-karting fund raising event last year heavily attended by lawyers and was asked to sign a waiver of liability in case of my injury or death. The man behind the desk looked pained and explained that I was the hundredth lawyer to have pointed out the invalidity of the waiver that evening. I signed it happy in the knowledge that it meant nothing!
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01/18/2007 10:23:16 AM · #37 |
It's common for hikers here in Arizona and especially the Grand Canyon. While hiking in the heat you sweat out all your electrolytes. If you only drink water on long or difficult hikes you can run into this. Several people fall victim to this in the grand canyon every year. When I hike the grand canyon it's always water on the way down, gatoraide on the way up.
The symptoms are the same as heat exhaustion, so if you are not aware of what is happening you drink more water to cure the heat exhaustion (the normal cure) which makes the water intoxication worse!
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01/18/2007 10:35:41 AM · #38 |
Call me ignorant, but I didn't realize the danger for a normal person. I knew people with kidney dysfunctions, etc. had to be careful, but I didn't.
This leads me to a question, especially in light of louddoug's last statement. When I exercise heavily (mountain biking, etc), I always tried to drink enough water, etc. Still, though, I would get a massive headache afterwards. Once I did a sprint distance triathlon and the headache after that has just about scared me away from exercising at all. I always thought that perhaps I was getting dehydrated because I've heard that can cause a headache, as well. And just "for the record," these are normal "ouch my head hurts" headaches, they are more along the lines of a bad migraine, in terms of pain equivalency, but feel slightly different.
How can you tell the difference? |
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01/18/2007 10:42:56 AM · #39 |
It's a very sad situation.
For what it is worth, there is a product on the market now that I've used when I drink lots of water or am in the heat much called SMARTWATER. It has electrolytes added and is just for the purpose of replenishing. I'm told the athletes use it. They have a couple of other products that look helpful as well.
Should anyone be interested, Smart Water And I don't work for them, lol! Just helpful stuff.
Message edited by author 2007-01-18 11:01:36. |
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01/18/2007 11:09:20 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Call me ignorant, but I didn't realize the danger for a normal person. I knew people with kidney dysfunctions, etc. had to be careful, but I didn't.
This leads me to a question, especially in light of louddoug's last statement. When I exercise heavily (mountain biking, etc), I always tried to drink enough water, etc. Still, though, I would get a massive headache afterwards. Once I did a sprint distance triathlon and the headache after that has just about scared me away from exercising at all. I always thought that perhaps I was getting dehydrated because I've heard that can cause a headache, as well. And just "for the record," these are normal "ouch my head hurts" headaches, they are more along the lines of a bad migraine, in terms of pain equivalency, but feel slightly different.
How can you tell the difference? |
Great question. I'll start by saying that I am not a medical professional, so this should not in any way be mistaken for medical or professional advice.
A dehydration headache will feel like a hangover. There's a good reason for this -- a hangover is nothing more than a dehydration headache. In addition to the headache, symptoms of dehydration may include a dry mouth and unusually dark or think urine, or an inability to urinate at all. Also, if you are thirsty, you are at least mildly dehydrated.
If you are properly hydrated or over-hydrated, your urine will typically be pale or clear. An exception to this is if you take vitamins, in which case your urine will probably be yellow due to the excess vitamins in your system. In this case, compare it to its normal color. If it's about the same or paler, and if you are having to urinate somewhat regularly, this may indicate that you are not dehydrated.
If your electrolytes are low, you are likely to crave salt, and salty foods will taste unusually good to you. In my own case, I call this the "potato chip test." I don't like potato chips, so if I find myself thinking they sound like a good idea, I know I've got a problem.
In the case of heat exhaustion, the victim will usually improve relatively quickly as you cool them, and as they begin to hydrate. If a victim with the signs of heat exhaustion does not get better with first aid, 911 should be called anyway as this likely indicates a more serious problem.
~Terry
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01/18/2007 11:15:13 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
If your electrolytes are low, you are likely to crave salt, and salty foods will taste unusually good to you. |
Is this right? I thought that salt was unique in being critical to survival but not triggering any relevant brain functions when stocks are low. While cows desire salt when they are low (hence a salt lick), people do not and will die without realising that there is a deficiency.
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01/18/2007 11:16:21 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
[quote=karmat] Call me ignorant, but I didn't realize the danger for a normal person. I knew people with kidney dysfunctions, etc. had to be careful, but I didn't.
This leads me to a question, especially in light of louddoug's last statement. When I exercise heavily (mountain biking, etc), I always tried to drink enough water, etc. Still, though, I would get a massive headache afterwards. Once I did a sprint distance triathlon and the headache after that has just about scared me away from exercising at all. I always thought that perhaps I was getting dehydrated because I've heard that can cause a headache, as well. And just "for the record," these are normal "ouch my head hurts" headaches, they are more along the lines of a bad migraine, in terms of pain equivalency, but feel slightly different.
How can you tell the difference? |
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
Great question. I'll start by saying that I am not a medical professional, so this should not in any way be mistaken for medical or professional advice. |
Understood. But, did you ever play one on TV?
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
A dehydration headache will feel like a hangover. There's a good reason for this -- a hangover is nothing more than a dehydration headache. In addition to the headache, symptoms of dehydration may include a dry mouth and unusually dark or think urine, or an inability to urinate at all. Also, if you are thirsty, you are at least mildly dehydrated. |
Ummm, I've never been hungover. But, I think I get the picture. :) this leads me to think that perhaps I was over hydrated because I was forcing myself to drink stuff trying to prevent the "dehydration" headache.
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
If you are properly hydrated or over-hydrated, your urine will typically be pale or clear. An exception to this is if you take vitamins, in which case your urine will probably be yellow due to the excess vitamins in your system. In this case, compare it to its normal color. If it's about the same or paler, and if you are having to urinate somewhat regularly, this may indicate that you are not dehydrated.
If your electrolytes are low, you are likely to crave salt, and salty foods will taste unusually good to you. In my own case, I call this the "potato chip test." I don't like potato chips, so if I find myself thinking they sound like a good idea, I know I've got a problem.
In the case of heat exhaustion, the victim will usually improve relatively quickly as you cool them, and as they begin to hydrate. If a victim with the signs of heat exhaustion does not get better with first aid, 911 should be called anyway as this likely indicates a more serious problem.
~Terry |
Wow, the things you can learn at dpc . . .
Photography, and a whole lot more. |
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01/18/2007 11:17:43 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Call me ignorant, but I didn't realize the danger for a normal person. I knew people with kidney dysfunctions, etc. had to be careful, but I didn't.
This leads me to a question, especially in light of louddoug's last statement. When I exercise heavily (mountain biking, etc), I always tried to drink enough water, etc. Still, though, I would get a massive headache afterwards. Once I did a sprint distance triathlon and the headache after that has just about scared me away from exercising at all. I always thought that perhaps I was getting dehydrated because I've heard that can cause a headache, as well. And just "for the record," these are normal "ouch my head hurts" headaches, they are more along the lines of a bad migraine, in terms of pain equivalency, but feel slightly different.
How can you tell the difference? |
I've learned from walking in the 3 day that salty snacks and sports drinks are important. If I go out for a long walk I usually mix water and sports drink in a bottle. Here is some info and if you look at the syptoms, headache is one. I don't really know how to tell the difference. Just try to replace the salt you lost with drinks or snacks.
Hyponatremia is a condition where the sodium (salt) level in your body is low. You must maintain the sodium level in your body within a certain range in order for your body to function properly. Symptoms of Hyponatremia include muscle weakness, spasms or cramps, swollen hands and feet, headache, fatigue, nausea or vomiting. As the sodium level gets lower, symptoms worsen and can include confusion, altered level of consciousness and even coma or convulsions. To maintain sodium levels while exercising, alternate the water you are drinking with sports drinks. Most sports drinks contain some type of sugar, usually glucose and, while they are important to keep you hydrated and prevent hyponatremia, you cannot depend on them to give you adequate calories to sustain you during the walk. Read below for information about proper nutrition.
Message edited by author 2007-01-18 11:19:00. |
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01/18/2007 11:27:08 AM · #44 |
| I just heard this on the radio. A few people actually called in and warned them, saying that you could die from drinking too much water and they all just laughed at them saying "yea, they've all signed the waiver, who cares! And if they get to the point where it might kill them, they'll just puke it up." Now some of them are going on trial for manslaughter. |
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01/18/2007 11:38:14 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
If your electrolytes are low, you are likely to crave salt, and salty foods will taste unusually good to you. |
Is this right? I thought that salt was unique in being critical to survival but not triggering any relevant brain functions when stocks are low. While cows desire salt when they are low (hence a salt lick), people do not and will die without realising that there is a deficiency. |
I know I've read aboput the salty food thing before, but I can't find the reference. I did find some useful information on about.com:
Originally posted by firstaid.about.com:
There is very little that can be done outside of a hospital for hyponatremia, so differentiating between dehydration and hyponatremia is the most important part of hyponatremia first aid. The symptoms are similar enough that a good assessment must include interviewing the victim and witnesses.
Hyponatremia First Aid
Victims with slurred speech, confusion, severe weakness, or loss of consciousness need medical attention immediately. Call 911 for these victims, regardless of the cause.
Heat exhaustion and dehydration can look very much like hyponatremia and are much more common. Heat stroke has a distinct set of symptoms and is a serious emergency.
Determine if the victim has been staying hydrated. If witnesses can confirm the victim has been drinking at least a pint of fluid per hour during exercise, consider the possibility of hyponatremia. In cases of rapid massive water intake - such as college fraternity initiation - consider the possibility of hyponatremia.
Victims of hyponatremia need salt. In minor cases - usually just when nausea is present - before cramps, dizziness or confusion occur, victims may feel better with salty food intake. Be very careful not to treat dehydration as hyponatremia and suggest salty foods when the victim really needs fluid. Assume any victim complaining of thirst is dehydrated.
Avoid NSAIDs like ibuprofen, aspirin, or naprosyn when concerned about hyponatremia. These pain relievers may make symptoms worse. |
I think part of the difference may be that an electrolyte imbalance is not just low sodium. It's an incorrect proportion of electrolytes and water, and electrolytes include not just sodium, but potassium and some other chemicals as well.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-01-18 11:39:50.
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01/18/2007 12:19:53 PM · #46 |
there's some interesting info on water intoxication on wikipedia. The thing that caught my attentoin was that a person on a low salt diet can die from drinking as little as half a gallon of water.
didn't the woman in the contest drink 2 gallons? |
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01/18/2007 12:20:51 PM · #47 |
| how much is one gallon? one liter? |
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01/18/2007 12:23:10 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by biteme:
how much is one gallon? one liter? |
8 pints, or about 4 liters.
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01/18/2007 12:23:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by biteme:
how much is one gallon? one liter? |
8 pints, or about 4 liters. |
ah ok, thanks. |
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01/18/2007 12:25:28 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by biteme:
how much is one gallon? one liter? |
A little less than 3.8 liters.
You can get the exact number by typing '1 gallon in liters' (without quotes) into Google.
~Terry
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