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11/02/2003 12:19:08 PM · #1 |
My simple digital workflow can no longer handle the number and size of photographs that are building up on my hard drive. I went through a number of books and only found basic advice for beginners. I searched the web and I can find workflow tools, but no good descriptions of advanced end-to-end workflows. I would like to collect some "best practices" from the photographers here on dpc and assemble them into a tutorial. Is anybody interested in helping?
I'll start with a basic outline which will be adjusted and expanded based on comments...
1. Transfer images to destination directory (any good naming ideas?)
2. Browse and rotate images
3. Delete complete failures
4. Protect originals (backup?)
5. Browse and select candidates for futher work
6. Copy candidates to another directory
7. Edit images
8. Browse and select final images
9. Copy final images to another directory
Questions:
o How do you separate family images from challenges and work?
o. What kind of directory structure? (by capture date, etc)
o Do you keep originals local or archive to CD?
o How do you handle RAW images in the workflow?
o When do you crop for printing? |
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11/02/2003 01:31:58 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Questions: |
o How do you separate family images from challenges and work?
Different directories for different subjects.
o. What kind of directory structure? (by capture date, etc)
By subject.
When I do a backup I make a new directory and put the whole existing structure in the backup directory. That directory remains on the pc.
o Do you keep originals local or archive to CD?
Both
o When do you crop for printing?
At the end
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11/02/2003 01:52:47 PM · #3 |
Some of the complexities you list are, unfortunately, platform and software dependent. Steps 1, 4, 5 (in part), 6 and 9 would be redundant given my setup (Apple iPhoto).
By and large, your processing workflow strikes me as logical and efficient. I use directories (folders) as needed. Family shots go into a family folder. I may create subfolders for John, Jack and Jane etc. The choice of folder names, again, reflects the changing demands of my portfolio. In it, you'll find anything from 'Objects' to 'Events', with the usual catagories (landscapes, portraits etc.) sorted alphabetically. iPhoto gives me the option to sort by roll, date or title, at will. If I used another archive, I'd definitely apply the same ordering principles, if at all possible.
> I keep both originals AND edited copies on both CD or DVD AND local, but, really, only keep current shots locally. (To qualify this: I have named one of my folders 'Gallery'. It contains only my best and most important shots. This folder will contain ALL my best shots, REGARDLESS of date. Even after I back it up, I retain this particular collection locally. My reasoning? You can only have 'so many' best shots. ;-)
> I haven't (yet) used RAW images at all. If and when I do, these would get saved as originals by default, unless I converted them. I'd likely wish to keep as few of these as possible locally, because of the sheer size of them.
> I crop no different for printing as I do for web images (at the end, mostly) and use white space to extend to a standard format.
I use DVDs for backup, keeping no more than about a thousand images at a time on the computer (80 GB). Backups routinely take place bi-monthly.
Message edited by author 2003-11-02 15:03:14. |
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11/02/2003 05:11:25 PM · #4 |
| The thing about workflow is that there isn't really a "right" way to do it. The important thing is that whatever you're doing works for you. I'm sure everyone has their own style of naming files and organizing them into different folders. As long as you can find what you're looking for easily, that's what counts. The other important thing is backup. As long as you're doing it, that's the important thing. It's also the secret to saving hard-drive space. The other important thing, in terms of not accidentally deleting files with other edited versions is to always use save-as in photoshop and not just save which will save over the other file (can be devestating when making a black and white out of a great color photo or something like that). I never use it as a rule. Remember not to get frustrated; messy doesn't necessarily mean disorganized. Sure, someone else looking for files on my computer would have no idea what to do, but maybe it's better that way :) |
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11/02/2003 06:08:04 PM · #5 |
Every day that I am out taking photos I come home and burn that day onto one CD whether it has 5 photos or 105 photos. Then I have other CD's that I have in categories i.e; floral, windows, landscapes, seascapes, portraits etc. I put what I think is the best onto those CD's. Every CD that I burn from the "daily" takes gets a note popped into it listing what sorts of pictures are on there. I find that if I just mention a few I know what all the rest are. I have a website and have a disk for those photos and I now have a disk with DPC challenge photos on it. That works for me because essentially I wind up having a back up of most things. I edit both ways -- sometimes in the upload and sometimes weeks later when I go looking for something. However, I always keep the original saved copy as it was without editing.
Good luck and don't let it get away from you. |
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11/03/2003 07:31:28 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Some of the complexities you list are, unfortunately, platform and software dependent. Steps 1, 4, 5 (in part), 6 and 9 would be redundant given my setup (Apple iPhoto).
By and large, your processing workflow strikes me as logical and efficient. I use directories (folders) as needed. Family shots go into a family folder. I may create subfolders for John, Jack and Jane etc. The choice of folder names, again, reflects the changing demands of my portfolio. In it, you'll find anything from 'Objects' to 'Events', with the usual catagories (landscapes, portraits etc.) sorted alphabetically. iPhoto gives me the option to sort by roll, date or title, at will. If I used another archive, I'd definitely apply the same ordering principles, if at all possible.
> I keep both originals AND edited copies on both CD or DVD AND local, but, really, only keep current shots locally. (To qualify this: I have named one of my folders 'Gallery'. It contains only my best and most important shots. This folder will contain ALL my best shots, REGARDLESS of date. Even after I back it up, I retain this particular collection locally. My reasoning? You can only have 'so many' best shots. ;-)
> I haven't (yet) used RAW images at all. If and when I do, these would get saved as originals by default, unless I converted them. I'd likely wish to keep as few of these as possible locally, because of the sheer size of them.
> I crop no different for printing as I do for web images (at the end, mostly) and use white space to extend to a standard format.
I use DVDs for backup, keeping no more than about a thousand images at a time on the computer (80 GB). Backups routinely take place bi-monthly. |
I agree that a specific implementation of a workflow may be platform and software dependent, but I think there may be some common threads that will help people out as the volume of pictures to deal with increases.
I am also a fan of iPhoto, but there are a few problems I am trying to come to crip with:
> Image rotation is not lossless
> iPhoto creates a new image and copies the original to the originals folder. This doubles the storage
required for any image that is rotated.
> iPhoto creates a new image and copies the original to the originals folder when ever an editor is
launched. This can create many exta images in the originals folder if you lauch to something like
photoshop and then use save as...
> iPhoto get's very slow when the number of images reaches a certain memory dependent level. I have
been burning images to CD as my library gets close to 650MB, but I'm not sure that's the best solution.
Not that I'm iPhoto bashing... it does some thing very well.
o When you say folders, so you mean multiple iPhoto libraries?
o Do you rotate images before importing to iPhoto, or hasn't this been an issue yet?
Thanks for the input! |
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11/03/2003 07:44:39 PM · #7 |
There is some excellent portfolio management software around. Adobe, for instance, I notice have one now, but I've not tried it.
I have a shareware, may even be freeware, I forget, one. Basically it goes like this ....
Make whatever directory structure you want, put the files in appropriately.
Run the software.
It then generates you a local HTML page of thumbnails of all your photos, in the relevant directories. You can click on each thumbnail and see a larger photo. The original photo, in all its glory, is available as well.
It then burns to CD, if you want it to, so you now have a CD with a nice HTML page in the top level. Really simple to then explore and later find your pics. I think you can even leave just the thumbs and HTML on your HDD, making it easier to search multiple CD's.
What little I saw of the Adobe one looked very good indeed. You can tag your photos, so later you can search them by keywords and find all the photos you have of dead cats at once etc.
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11/03/2003 10:03:09 PM · #8 |
> I'm not sure if I understand this. You mean size loss or loss of quality? If you mean size, then yes, unless you crop in 90 º increments.
> Yes, iPhoto will retain both the original and the edited image, but don't we want to retain both images?
> Anything processed in an editor I copy to a separate folder (~Home > Pictures > Sampled) OUTSIDE of iPhoto. These, however, have been resized and sampled either for DPC or other web purposes. iDisk and mac.com, of course do not require this kind of resampling. I simply add this 'Sampled' folder to my routine iPhoto backups and consequently trash its contents (on my HD) to make room for new images.
> I do not experience any problems with slowdowns in iPhoto until I exceed, perhaps, 3 or 4 GB. I was just working in it and checked: I have 1150 MB in it todate, and it's relatively snappy (2 second beachball appearance, now and then).
I do agree with you, that performance seems to hinge on processor, bus speed, HD space, memory and the state/integrity of your system. If you are having problems, it would help to know some specifics (hardware and OS info and what maintenance routines you do).
o By 'folders' I actually meant iPhoto 'Albums' (sidebar). Other than that and in the Finder, i call anything a folder that looks and behaves like one. iPhoto libraries, frankly, are best left closed and in place. Sensitive critters, those. :-)
o I've set up iPhoto to import images, when a camera is connected. As a result, I rotate after importing. There are no issues I am aware of. Could you expand on the problems you have with rotating?
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11/03/2003 10:05:26 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Natator:
There is some excellent portfolio management software around. Adobe, for instance, I notice have one now, but I've not tried it.
I have a shareware, may even be freeware, I forget, one. Basically it goes like this ....
Make whatever directory structure you want, put the files in appropriately.
Run the software.
It then generates you a local HTML page of thumbnails of all your photos, in the relevant directories. You can click on each thumbnail and see a larger photo. The original photo, in all its glory, is available as well.
It then burns to CD, if you want it to, so you now have a CD with a nice HTML page in the top level. Really simple to then explore and later find your pics. I think you can even leave just the thumbs and HTML on your HDD, making it easier to search multiple CD's.
What little I saw of the Adobe one looked very good indeed. You can tag your photos, so later you can search them by keywords and find all the photos you have of dead cats at once etc. |
Sounds like a stripped version of iPhoto. ;-) |
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11/03/2003 11:07:47 PM · #10 |
My workflow is rather simple. When I finish shooting, I do the following:
1. create a folder (2003-11-02 - Shoot Title)
2. inside that folder, I create an 'originals' folder
3. download my photos to the originals folder
4. browse the originals folder, delete the crap, copy the ones i wanna post process (not necessarily all the keepers) up to the original folder.
5. rename the images i wanna post process
6. post process.
7. reapply original exif data to the post processed shots if necessary
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11/03/2003 11:13:04 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
> I'm not sure if I understand this. You mean size loss or loss of quality? If you mean size, then yes, unless you crop in 90 º increments.
> Yes, iPhoto will retain both the original and the edited image, but don't we want to retain both images?
> Anything processed in an editor I copy to a separate folder (~Home > Pictures > Sampled) OUTSIDE of iPhoto. These, however, have been resized and sampled either for DPC or other web purposes. iDisk and mac.com, of course do not require this kind of resampling. I simply add this 'Sampled' folder to my routine iPhoto backups and consequently trash its contents (on my HD) to make room for new images.
> I do not experience any problems with slowdowns in iPhoto until I exceed, perhaps, 3 or 4 GB. I was just working in it and checked: I have 1150 MB in it todate, and it's relatively snappy (2 second beachball appearance, now and then).
I do agree with you, that performance seems to hinge on processor, bus speed, HD space, memory and the state/integrity of your system. If you are having problems, it would help to know some specifics (hardware and OS info and what maintenance routines you do).
o By 'folders' I actually meant iPhoto 'Albums' (sidebar). Other than that and in the Finder, i call anything a folder that looks and behaves like one. iPhoto libraries, frankly, are best left closed and in place. Sensitive critters, those. :-)
o I've set up iPhoto to import images, when a camera is connected. As a result, I rotate after importing. There are no issues I am aware of. Could you expand on the problems you have with rotating? |
I hit the wall on my system at about 1150 images. It's probably a matter of memory, but any action resulted in a big delay.
We do want to keep the edited images and the originals. My problem was that it would save an original even if I just launched PhotoShop and did a "save as". The orignal and the current image were exactly the same and I would have to do a revert to original. (usable but an irritation)
A number of applications, like Graphics Converter on the mac, can rotate the original image without recompressing the jpeg and losing additional information. The rotation provided by quicktime is not lossless, so some information is lost when the image is rotated and then recompressed. If I could rotate and not lose image data or tags I would keep the rotated image as the original rather than keeping both. (probably not a big deal, but sometime I get hung up on these things)
Keeping mulitple folder/libraries would have samed me some pain. I need to keep the family photos some place handy and really don't like having to explain the other images that I have stuffed in with them.
Message edited by author 2003-11-03 23:27:21. |
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11/03/2003 11:24:13 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My workflow is rather simple. When I finish shooting, I do the following:
1. create a folder (2003-11-02 - Shoot Title)
2. inside that folder, I create an 'originals' folder
3. download my photos to the originals folder
4. browse the originals folder, delete the crap, copy the ones i wanna post process (not necessarily all the keepers) up to the original folder.
5. rename the images i wanna post process
6. post process.
7. reapply original exif data to the post processed shots if necessary |
This helps.... I had made the mistake of building a folder structure based on capture data for originals and then a duplicate structure for proofing and then another for images to publish (to family album or dpc). Having the orignals folder under each shoot and keeping everthing together works a lot better. Odd it seemed completely logical when I started down that path and now it seem rather silly.
Do you use an application to catalog the images or do you just some type of photo browser? |
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11/04/2003 12:22:38 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
...I hit the wall on my system at about 1150 images. It's probably a matter of memory, but any action resulted in a big delay.
zeuszen>> I am aware of some iPhoto users suffering from these symptoms. I do not believe it's entirely due to memory though (I have 1 GB of Ram installed). If the problems persist (despite sufficient memory), I'd suggest trashing all iPhoto files, especially preferences and installing a new version. If you're running Panther or Jaguar, you should also repair permissions. When using iPhoto, since it can be processor intensive, it may be safe practice to perform only one operation at a time, in other words, wait for the crop to finish before enhancing etc.
We do want to keep the edited images and the originals. My problem was that it would save an original even if I just launched PhotoShop and did a "save as". The orignal and the current image were exactly the same and I would have to do a revert to original. (usable but an irritation)
A number of applications, like Graphics Converter on the mac, can rotate the original image without recompressing the jpeg and losing additional information. The rotation provided by quicktime is not lossless, so some information is lost when the image is rotated and then recompressed. If I could rotate and not lose image data or tags I would keep the rotated image as the original rather than keeping both. (probably not a big deal, but sometime I get hung up on these things)
zeuszen>> I do rely on GraphicConverter heavily, but as soon as I save to GC (as opposed to saving a change to the original file), bang, there's compression as well. Choices?
Keeping mulitple folder/libraries would have samed me some pain. I need to keep the family photos some place handy and really don't like having to explain the other images that I have stuffed in with them. |
Nusbaum, your pedantically obsessive. ;-D
Message edited by author 2003-11-04 00:25:51. |
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11/04/2003 02:00:18 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
1. Transfer images to destination directory (any good naming ideas?) |
I create numbered temp folders in my images folder for the transfer (temp/1, temp/2, temp/3 and so on). After uploading from the camera, I then browse the photos in these temp folders and discard the bad ones. The ones I want to keep I move to a "subject" folder.
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
2. Browse and rotate images |
I only do rotations in the post processing.
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
4. Protect originals (backup?) |
In each subject folder, I create two jpg folders - one for the original jpg files, the other for "jpgs - waiting for processing". The processed files are placed at the root of the subject folder. If I need to locate the original jpg file (if I did my job properly), it should be located in the jpg folder of the subject folder. Processed files are named -.psd (Photoshop file). Using this file naming convention and folder structure, I can quickly locate the original jpg for a processed photo and I can distinguish processed jpgs from waiting to be processed jpgs.
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Questions:
o Do you keep originals local or archive to CD? |
When my hard disk gets full, I move everything I can to CD-RW. I format the CD-RWs so that they can be read like floppy disks, and then drag and drop the files onto the CD. A bit risky for me, since I cannot read the CD-RWs on another PC unless it is equipped with a CD burner and the InCD packet writing software.
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
o When do you crop for printing? |
I crop in the post processing. The same crop is used for both printed and web images.
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11/04/2003 04:09:10 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by mcrael:
A bit risky for me, since I cannot read the CD-RWs on another PC unless it is equipped with a CD burner and the InCD packet writing software. |
This should help:
//www.nero.com/en/631977199298978.html |
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11/04/2003 11:35:38 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Do you use an application to catalog the images or do you just some type of photo browser? |
This is where I have not bothered to come up with a solution yet. I do plan to create something since I have recently purchased Breezebrowser. I think I can use that to create a quick and dirty html thumbnail catalog of my stuff. I haven't looked into it deeply enough yet to determine exactly what it's gonna take to make it work though. I will try to remember to let you know when I do though.
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11/04/2003 11:40:52 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Nusbaum, your pedantically obsessive. ;-D |
You're right. I have to usually have to fight off the urge to write software or get involved at the system level with when working with digital photography. I was fine until iPhoto got slow and I started researching alternative, and then look what happened. |
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11/04/2003 12:10:31 PM · #18 |
Whoa! Organize? Workflow? What do these words mean?
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11/04/2003 12:35:08 PM · #19 |
I organise by date also - with that same folder titling advocated by Mr Setzler. This has the advantage of being stored in chronological order by date.
Printed images are also stored - so that I have reference of previous prints of images. I don't regard cropping and prcessing for printing as definitive, so if I need a further print/s of something I'll usually start from another copy of the original file.
I'm just about to explore means of storing 'best images' separately again from the full archive. Still under a year of 'serious' photographing, and that archive is at 3.94MB. Yikes.
Ed
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11/04/2003 01:30:56 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by e301:
I organise by date also - with that same folder titling advocated by Mr Setzler. This has the advantage of being stored in chronological order by date.
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How are you gentlemen ever able to find anything then? What if you want a particular photo of a train or flower, but don't know when you took it?
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11/04/2003 01:39:13 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by mcrael:
A bit risky for me, since I cannot read the CD-RWs on another PC unless it is equipped with a CD burner and the InCD packet writing software. |
This should help:
//www.nero.com/en/631977199298978.html |
Thanks muchly!! I've downloaded and installed it and it seems to be working fine. Though maybe I'm confused about my problem earlier. Maybe reading was unreliable earlier and that seems to be resolved. I was most disappointed that I couldn't (and still can't) write to the CD-RW without a burner installed. Oh well, must still do laptop to PC transfers in order to offload to CD-RW.
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11/04/2003 02:41:53 PM · #22 |
How do you reapply original exif data to the post processed shots?
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11/04/2003 10:49:03 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by byetko:
How do you reapply original exif data to the post processed shots? |
"Exifer"
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