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01/06/2007 11:45:54 PM · #1 |
I've been messing around on digg.com (and to some extent votobooth.com) for the past week or so, and it's gotten me thinking on some things about the future of DPC. The new catchword in the internet is Web 2.0. O'reilly's has a good write up on it. DPC would probably be considered an early era web 2.0 site. Now this might not seem to exciting on the face of it, but theres something to be said for the social innovations that these sites are giving, and probably some debate as to whether this is a really a new revolution, or just a logical extension of the internet. I guess my point is this: DPC is getting left behind, slowly but surely.
This site has great potential to become phenomenal. I know it to be one of the finest communities around. We all may complain about the fights and BS that sometimes happens, but for the most part everyone here contributes a great deal and are all very helpful, respectful, and there isn't really one huge section of the population lording over the entire site. The problem I see is that this community seems to be stagnating. The technology that drives this community is stagnating because of self-imposed restrictions that should be looked into as challenges, not razor-wire fences.
I know, I know, we try to keep things simple. Simple systems, home-grown code, small browser footprint. But the markets are driving towards complex systems, not simple. But I take a look at what digg is doing in it's Digg Labs features, and the potential for new and exciting venues to interact with this site. Wouldn't it be cool to go around the site seeing what others are "digg"-ing in real time? Comments, pictures, threads, even individual links.. Wouldn't it be good to have RSS, AJAX, Customizable Home pages and profile page content blocks, targeted advertising. Implementing AJAX alone could increase the features and customization with only a small bandwidth hit. Think of being able to enable the comments section to update automatically, pictures changing colors on little frames the more comments they get.
The thing of it is, there seems to be a LOT of content out there that is DPC user generated that simply needs to be integrated into the site. The WPL, the photoWiki, new GTG features (more social networking). There seem to be a plethora of ways to expand and excite this site. I know that I control none of this, but I think I as an avid user should express my desires for a place in the web that I currently call home. It's like my personal Cheers on the net. But ever once in a while, don't you get the urge to re-arrange the furniture around here a little? Paint the walls? Re-model the kitchen, install new appliances? What I'm talking about is a fork-lift upgrade of the site. These new additions are welcome, but I think the time has come for DPC re-innovation on a massive scale.
(Okay, not much of that was coherent, my English and writing teachers would probably be appalled, but I think you get the point.)
edit- sp/tired person grammar
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 23:48:58.
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01/06/2007 11:52:11 PM · #2 |
d'oh, wrong thread
But while I'm here...just out of curiosity...would you or whoever responds after this who is interested in all these additions be willing to pay more per year for your membership?
Message edited by author 2007-01-06 23:53:08. |
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01/06/2007 11:52:44 PM · #3 |
It's a common misperception that how a site looks is more important than the content it serves.
DPC serves up pictures, lets people vote on them, and provides forums for related discussion.
So long as there are people interested in those 3 things, this site isn't being left behind anything.
Of the various bells and whisles you mentioned, RSS for newly uploaded pictures would be nice. The rest of it smells of myspace. |
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01/06/2007 11:57:11 PM · #4 |
of all the new features you mention Steve, I'd like to see more social networking features built into DPC... I do like that about votobooth.
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01/06/2007 11:58:47 PM · #5 |
All of the bells, whistles and what have yous that attract people to the diggs sites and sites like them is what drives a lot of us away. When you have the type of features you talk about, then you are cluttering up the pages with stuff that competes for your attention... you have moved away from the content and more towards the experience of the site. Plus, most of sites like that are all geared towards "Advertising Sponsors" and making money. And there is a reason for this... it takes more bandwidth and heavy duty equipment to run those kinds of sites. Which really adds to the cost.
I'd like to see some of the options on here that other message forums have (I'm partial to VBulleton forum software myself) but to have the site be like Diggs or sites like that would not make this site a better place to visit.
Mike
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01/06/2007 11:59:46 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
... Wouldn't it be cool to go around the site seeing what others are "digg"-ing in real time? Comments, pictures, threads, even individual links... |
We already have Most Recently Commented, Recently Uploaded, and a front page of "hot" forum threads.
How would what you are proposing provide different information? Or, provide it in a better way?
I'm not knocking your idea, just curious.
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01/07/2007 12:02:30 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by mk:
d'oh, wrong thread
But while I'm here...just out of curiosity...would you or whoever responds after this who is interested in all these additions be willing to pay more per year for your membership? |
sure. $25 or $35 isn't a big deal to me. If this site got a bunch of new features that actually made the site more useful / entertaining / etc. I'd be willing to kick in say another $10 a year. |
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01/07/2007 12:24:11 AM · #8 |
I would probably rejoin and would most likely pay more than the $25 if there were additional features for me, the user...other than a little storage space and access to the "Member Only" forum. There are so many free sites on the net that there has to be something special to get people to pay. I know a lot do pay, but there a lot more that don't.
There would definitely need to be a higher membership fee to cover the above suggestions because more staff/coders would need to be hired. I mean no offense, but it took over 3 years for the image search's "Coming Soon" page to turn into reality.
Message edited by author 2007-01-07 00:24:49.
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01/07/2007 12:29:47 AM · #9 |
Can I please for once comment that I really don't like the idea of DPC becoming like Digg without some highly progressive individual jumping down my throat and calling me names relating to how regressive I am?
I would really like to express my opinion just once without getting in a fight.
Thank you. |
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01/07/2007 12:34:35 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Can I please for once comment that I really don't like the idea of DPC becoming like Digg without some highly progressive individual jumping down my throat and calling me names relating to how regressive I am?
I would really like to express my opinion just once without getting in a fight.
Thank you. |
huh? |
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01/07/2007 12:38:19 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by nards656:
Can I please for once comment that I really don't like the idea of DPC becoming like Digg without some highly progressive individual jumping down my throat and calling me names relating to how regressive I am?
I would really like to express my opinion just once without getting in a fight.
Thank you. |
Maybe'd it'd help if you didn't swing first. ;) Regarding Web 2.0, even though Leo Laporte and even O'Reilly flunkies insist that it's a thing, it really isn't. The concepts and ideas that supposedly make Web 2.0 what it is, such as asynchronous communication between client and server, "community", and other buzzwords, have been around long before some committee invented a monikor for it. |
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01/07/2007 12:46:38 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I'd like to see more social networking features built into DPC... I do like that about votobooth. |
I must be missing something at Votobooth - I don't see anything there that I would put in the category of social networking. I go there, look at "My Home" - no new comments or friend requests - look around at the menus - no sign of life - close. I don't even see threaded discussions or any form of communication except comments on profiles and comments on pics which you can only find if you click on every picture to see if there are any. And the My Home page loads Suh-Low!
I've looked at a lot of other sites like DPC, I've built and run forums, I've built social type sites for clients and I think DPC, the way it is - uncluttered and easy and comfortable to get around in - is the best. New features are added occasionally and I like most of them. I personally, am not a big fan of cramming new technology into a site just because you can. If you can provide a universally practical use for it, then fine.
That's my take on it - however, since I firmly believe that things should be market driven for the most part, if a large number of our userbase decided they wanted things like more digital art, RSS feeds, funky personalized background images and music, etc. I would support the Admins decision to implement those things if they think it makes cents. ;-) But I don't think I'd hang around long after. But I wouldn't be bitter about it either, and I don't knock anyone for making suggestions or for the admins considering and experimenting.
Anyway - with so many new Firefox and other browser extensions, many individual users will eventually be able to make their version of the site into whatever they want. I'm all for that.
Message edited by author 2007-01-07 00:48:47. |
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01/07/2007 12:50:24 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I've looked at a lot of other sites like DPC, I've built and run forums, I've built social type sites for clients and I think DPC, the way it is - uncluttered and easy and comfortable to get around in - is the best. New features are added occasionally and I like most of them. I personally, am not a big fan of cramming new technology into a site just because you can. |
I think you're right, and I think rg6³ is also right in suggesting that content trumps form, or at least it should. As mentioned, these "technologies" existed long before someone came up with a tidy name for them, and presenting them all in a uniform package is not in my opinion a good thing. I personally think DPC works and looks just fine for its purpose.
Message edited by author 2007-01-07 00:51:21. |
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01/07/2007 12:50:30 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
funky personalized background images and music, etc |
Please, none of that... that stuff drives me CRAZY on myspace
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01/07/2007 12:53:04 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
All of the bells, whistles and what have yous that attract people to the diggs sites and sites like them is what drives a lot of us away...to have the site be like Diggs or sites like that would not make this site a better place to visit. |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
So long as there are people interested in those 3 things, this site isn't being left behind anything.
Of the various bells and whisles you mentioned, RSS for newly uploaded pictures would be nice. The rest of it smells of myspace. |
Originally posted by nards656:
I really don't like the idea of DPC becoming like Digg |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I think DPC, the way it is - uncluttered and easy and comfortable to get around in - is the best.
I would support the Admins decision to implement those things if they think it makes cents. ;-) But I don't think I'd hang around long after. |
Agreed 110%.
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01/07/2007 01:38:55 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
funky personalized background images and music, etc |
Please, none of that... that stuff drives me CRAZY on myspace |
No, that wasn't what I was talking about at all. I more just meant a more dynamic interface for the same thing that we're doing now. What I meant about social networking is REAL social networking with people that you can see and go take pictures of things with, not leaving stupid comments on each others shout-box. I'm sorry I brought up votobooth in that respect.
I just meant the customizable layout of your personal and site content. Yes, it does load slow, but I think that is a product of the designers rather than the feature set. I've seen much smoother and faster implementations.
What I'm talking about is simple, uncluttered design as we already have, with richer features, more cross-linked pages and such. The ability to create and use or not use home-page modules as desired, and to re-arrange the home page as desired. Personally, I'd rather have the forums at the top, but others could place it at the bottom, and insert a new comments block in there that auto-updates in real-time, or close to it. Add in new picutures posted to your personalized front page, or as a sidebar in the forums. Make everything blocks and widgets and such. The user could control the complexity or the simplicity of their own front page. They could make DPC work like their brain works, and not have to conform to the way everyone else has things set, or as a funcntion of default site layout.
There's nothing wrong with taking the best ideas from each of these sites, and incorporating them into our small community to make it better and more engaging than it even is now.
MK - Frankly, I'd would pay more money, and be willing to look at sidebar and banner ads all day to get these features, yes. Obviously, others would not necessarily agree :)
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01/07/2007 11:14:37 AM · #17 |
bump, I'd like to see what more people think of this, especially after I explained more clearly.
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01/07/2007 11:20:16 AM · #18 |
Personally, I'm not interested in this site offering widgets and sidebars and other nonsense at the expense of more $ to me and slower loading times for everyone. I don't see the point. I don't need every site on the web to be a portal site with views on everything.
This is a photo challenge site, and it does that function pretty well. Try to introduce too much else and you risk dilluting the existing core functionality. |
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01/07/2007 11:32:01 AM · #19 |
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01/07/2007 11:37:55 AM · #20 |
| Some nice ideas there. However the development cost and implementation problems outweigh the benefits. |
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01/07/2007 11:47:27 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by mist:
Personally, I'm not interested in this site offering widgets and sidebars and other nonsense at the expense of more $ to me and slower loading times for everyone. I don't see the point. I don't need every site on the web to be a portal site with views on everything.
This is a photo challenge site, and it does that function pretty well. Try to introduce too much else and you risk dilluting the existing core functionality. |
Couldn't have said it better myself :)
I like DPC just the way it is and I see no reasons for customizable layout or what have you - and I would never pay extra money to get it (However, I would consider paying extra money not to get it) ;)
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01/07/2007 11:47:41 AM · #22 |
| I agree with the sentiments expressed so far in favor of simplicity. I deplore the move toward overly elaborate web sites loaded with gizmos, bells and whistles. If I have a choice between two sites, of which one is simple and straightforward, and the other looks like a broadway opening, I'll choose the simple one every time. I'd hate to see DPC move in the direction of glitz and glitter. |
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01/07/2007 11:50:06 AM · #23 |
Hi Wavelength,
Thanks for expanding your original post. You've described your vision eloquently, and I can imagine that some of features (like having forums at the top of the front page) would be a bit more convenient in some cases.
But...I'm not at all willing to look at ads to support the cost of the additional functionality nor am I willing to pay extra for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from the social networking piece of it -- the kind of things that you are proposing to be on the front page are just a click away. One of the reasons I like this site so much is the simple, clean, and common-sense navigation of it.
With regard to the social networking piece, well, I think that is already well-represented here. If we added things like a "friend" list or whatever, I suspect the number of complaints about vote manipulation and "cliques" would increase, etc. Maybe I'm not thinking of it correctly?
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01/07/2007 12:04:55 PM · #24 |
Personally,
I'd love the ability to modify the challenge winners each week....possibly put my own photo in for the blue every once in a while.
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01/07/2007 12:12:57 PM · #25 |
This may not be the best example, but the first thing I thought of when I saw Wave's post was the "My Yahoo" home page. On that page you can choose which modules you wish to display on startup, and their position relative to each other on your home page. You can also choose from a variety of "themes" (colors, BG images/textures, and so forth) to use in customizing the overall feel of the page to one that suits you.
Issues of cost/speed of loading etc notwithstanding (I don't know about any of that) this seems to me to be a reasonably good idea with no obvious downside to it. It seems to me that people running different-size monitors at different resolutions might legitimately have different ideas about how best to arrange their DPC home page.
But what do I know?
R.
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