Do you struggle with white balance?

12/10/2006 07:32:40 PM · #1

Well I have with every camera I have ever had. I seem to end up with blue, or red, or yellow, anything but just what I saw. I have always thought about buying an exposdisc but dang there expensive. Well thanks to some great folks I have learned a quick and nearly foolproof(note I said nearly) that has made my PP nearly non existant except for crop and sharpening and resized. Anyway here is the trick and its so simple its scary. This requires that your camera allows you to set a custom white balance.

Move yourself and your camera in the light that you will be shooting in.
Set your camera up in Shutter priority, apeture priority, or manual. Then move your dial to Program mode. Focus your camera on something anything and hold the shutter half way down to lock focus, move a normal piece of paper from your printer preferably good paper with a nice white rating in front of the camera, fill the frame with it, and take a photo, now go into your menu and tell it you are going to set a custom WB then scroll to the photo of the paper you just took and select it. This will set your custom wb. Make sure you put your WB setting to custom. Now just go take photos. I have been so surprised at how well this works and has cut my PP down considerably. This assumes your not using flash as the flash theoretically changes the wb if you overpower ambient light. Try it and I think you will like it.

MattO

TechnoShroom

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/10/2006 07:48:04 PM · #2

That wasn't what you were doing all along? How were you setting your white balance then?

12/10/2006 07:50:50 PM · #3

Originally posted by TechnoShroom:

That wasn't what you were doing all along? How were you setting your white balance then?

Auto white balance! And its more hit and miss then you could imagine, on every camera I've had. I dont understand the K scale very well and alot of folks I know use the AWB exclusively and use raw to fix it later in post.

MattO

12/10/2006 08:04:55 PM · #4

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
That wasn't what you were doing all along? How were you setting your white balance then?

Auto white balance! And its more hit and miss then you could imagine, on every camera I've had. I dont understand the K scale very well and alot of folks I know use the AWB exclusively and use raw to fix it later in post.

MattO

You'd be better off setting WB for roughly the light you are in, rather than ever using AWB.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/10/2006 08:12:11 PM · #5

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
That wasn't what you were doing all along? How were you setting your white balance then?

Auto white balance! And its more hit and miss then you could imagine, on every camera I've had. I dont understand the K scale very well and alot of folks I know use the AWB exclusively and use raw to fix it later in post.

MattO

You'd be better off setting WB for roughly the light you are in, rather than ever using AWB.

Just the reason I have tried to learn how to find a way to make the wb setting better for me. Thats the reason for this post, so people know its really very simple to get a good WB and keep the pp for color correction so much less.

MattO

Citadel

Nikon D7500

12/10/2006 08:20:38 PM · #6

I myself never use auto anymore however I do use the camera presets for different light conditions (e.g. cloudy, tungsten, fluorescent, sunlight etc). I think I'll use MattO's little step by step to try getting more accurate color. Thanks Matt!

12/10/2006 08:26:42 PM · #7

Originally posted by MattO:

That's true, but you want to be careful that you don't do it all the time. A lot of occasions using a custom white balance would kill the very light quality you might have been looking for. Portraits in the golden light, sunsets, early morning macros, late even landscapes and so on are all largely dependent on the colour quality of the light to enhance the picture. Using auto white balance or potentially even worse, a custom white balance, would make it look like it was shot at mid day or in a studio.

Custom can be good and getting accurate colour can be important, but it isn't something you should do all the time.

Message edited by author 2006-12-10 20:27:08.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

12/11/2006 09:18:18 AM · #8

I'm going to bump this one time for the day crowd.

MattO

Rebecca

Nikon D80

12/11/2006 09:29:04 AM · #9

One of my favorite things to do is to measure the white balance against a piece of yellow paper, so everything takes on a blue cast. Fun stuff!

UNCLEBRO

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/11/2006 09:30:27 AM · #10

I never (well, very very rarely) use AWB.
I always use the presets and I still have to adjust in PS.
I guess I don't know what I'm doing after all!!!!!

12/11/2006 09:43:44 AM · #11

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by MattO:

Just the reason I have tried to learn how to find a way to make the wb setting better for me. Thats the reason for this post, so people know its really very simple to get a good WB and keep the pp for color correction so much less.

MattO

That's true, but you want to be careful that you don't do it all the time. A lot of occasions using a custom white balance would kill the very light quality you might have been looking for. Portraits in the golden light, sunsets, early morning macros, late even landscapes and so on are all largely dependent on the colour quality of the light to enhance the picture. Using auto white balance or potentially even worse, a custom white balance, would make it look like it was shot at mid day or in a studio.

Custom can be good and getting accurate colour can be important, but it isn't something you should do all the time.

I certainly agree with this, you have to know when and where to use any setting on your camera, to get the desired effect. But one thing I'm finally learning is that the end result of any photo I take is ALWAYS better with less work in photoshop. I took 100 photos yesterday at a christmas party and had to do no color correction or levels adjustments whatsoever. That is a first for me. Normally I end up with a cast or a wb change or something that messes with my photos. Yesterday that wasnt a problem. I was able to batch process with using resize a touch of smart sharpen and save process. Was so much nicer then adjusting color and levels on each one.

MattO

soup

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/11/2006 09:46:32 AM · #12

outside of the AWB setting the presets aren't that bad - as long as you know what kind of light you're in and which setting coresponds to it.

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:

I never (well, very very rarely) use AWB.
I always use the presets and I still have to adjust in PS.
I guess I don't know what I'm doing after all!!!!!

fotomann_forever

12/11/2006 09:50:18 AM · #13

IF AWB doesn't get it, the RAW converter will :-)

12/11/2006 09:53:36 AM · #14

Originally posted by soup:

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Gels and switching of the fluorescents is probably best in that sort of situation though.

12/11/2006 09:55:54 AM · #15

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

IF AWB doesn't get it, the RAW converter will :-)

But you wont have to deal with that extra step in post if the wb is right to begin with, just one less step when processing hundreds of shots.

MattO

Edit to add, that also means shooting in jpeg that I dont have to deal with larger files either. Making everything faster.

Message edited by author 2006-12-11 09:56:48.

UNCLEBRO

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/11/2006 09:56:16 AM · #16

Originally posted by soup:

outside of the AWB setting the presets aren't that bad - as long as you know what kind of light you're in and which setting corresponds to it.

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
I never (well, very very rarely) use AWB.
I always use the presets and I still have to adjust in PS.
I guess I don't know what I'm doing after all!!!!!

For me, I always seem to put things off if I don't know what I'm doing.
and that would be the case with using a custom balance.
But every Friday I go to the SPCA to take pictures of the cats in a little back room.
it has fluorescent tubes overhead and a fairly large window.
I either use sunlight setting or the fluorescent one.
Either way, I have to adjust every picture in PS.
Maybe I just need to take the plunge and use the custom option?

12/11/2006 09:59:01 AM · #17

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:

Originally posted by soup:
outside of the AWB setting the presets aren't that bad - as long as you know what kind of light you're in and which setting corresponds to it.

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
I never (well, very very rarely) use AWB.
I always use the presets and I still have to adjust in PS.
I guess I don't know what I'm doing after all!!!!!

For me, I always seem to put things off if I don't know what I'm doing.
and that would be the case with using a custom balance.
But every Friday I go to the SPCA to take pictures of the cats in a little back room.
it has fluorescent tubes overhead and a fairly large window.
I either use sunlight setting or the fluorescent one.
Either way, I have to adjust every picture in PS.
Maybe I just need to take the plunge and use the custom option?

Try the method I suggested in your living room tonight. Use AWB for one shot then make a custom wb using my suggestion and shoot the same scene. I always end up with a more correct color rendition using the new method I was taught then AWB does. I do have mixed lighting in the room though. I have some daylight corrected bulbs and some regular tungstens.

MattO

soup

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/11/2006 10:00:42 AM · #18

well there is always an ideal situation. in a limited resource situation - it is probably the best option ie: you don't have gels and you need the light.

Originally posted by Gordon:

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Gels and switching of the fluorescents is probably best in that sort of situation though.

UNCLEBRO

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/11/2006 10:01:51 AM · #19

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:

Originally posted by soup:
outside of the AWB setting the presets aren't that bad - as long as you know what kind of light you're in and which setting corresponds to it.

you'll run into to problems maybe with mixed temp lights. and custom might be better in that situation.

Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
I never (well, very very rarely) use AWB.
I always use the presets and I still have to adjust in PS.
I guess I don't know what I'm doing after all!!!!!

For me, I always seem to put things off if I don't know what I'm doing.
and that would be the case with using a custom balance.
But every Friday I go to the SPCA to take pictures of the cats in a little back room.
it has fluorescent tubes overhead and a fairly large window.
I either use sunlight setting or the fluorescent one.
Either way, I have to adjust every picture in PS.
Maybe I just need to take the plunge and use the custom option?

Try the method I suggested in your living room tonight. Use AWB for one shot then make a custom wb using my suggestion and shoot the same scene. I always end up with a more correct color rendition using the new method I was taught then AWB does. I do have mixed lighting in the room though. I have some daylight corrected bulbs and some regular tungstens.

MattO

I shall give it a go this afternoon.
I Have one of those cards that have the black/white/grey/greyer squares printed on it.
I guess I could use that.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

12/11/2006 10:02:01 AM · #20

Originally posted by MattO:

I'm going to bump this one time for the day crowd.

MattO

I continue to use auto white balance and then correct the colors with curves, if necessary. Custom white balance works well up until the point where you toss a flash into the equation.

soup

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/11/2006 10:03:26 AM · #21

you'll be best to use an unfocused image as your custom setting image. as long as the paper or wall or whatever fills the frame and is evenly lit by the lighting - blurring it will eliminate any texture ( shadows and highlights ) - you'll get decent results.

12/11/2006 10:08:35 AM · #22

Originally posted by soup:

Right thats even stated in my post to focus on something hold the shutter halfway down then fill the frame with the paper. But I'm glad you did bring that up as it might get lost in the discussion, as it seems like alot of steps but in reality its a 1 minute process.

MattO

12/11/2006 10:11:07 AM · #23

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by MattO:
I'm going to bump this one time for the day crowd.

MattO

I continue to use auto white balance and then correct the colors with curves, if necessary. Custom white balance works well up until the point where you toss a flash into the equation.

Yeah I still have to use AWB when doing this, but I usually end up with some wb inconsistencies when doing this. Thus my warning in the original post about working only when doing nonflash shots. I still dont have that one figured out yet.

MattO

12/11/2006 10:12:50 AM · #24

Originally posted by soup:

well there is always an ideal situation. in a limited resource situation - it is probably the best option ie: you don't have gels and you need the light.

But it isn't going to help, in a situation such as the one above. Fluorescent (read green) light sources and window (read blue) light sources. The lights on the subject are different colours. You can't fix that with a custom white balance - it just isn't possible.

You fix it by changing the colour of one of the light sources, or switching one of them off. Either that, or you move the subject or add your own lighting. Probably the best solution would be to switch off the fluorescents and use bounced or off camera flash, which is at least mostly daylight balanced and will mix well with the window light.

A custom white balance in that situation is either going to be right for one or the other source, or wrong for both. In each of those three cases, the end result will look wrong.

Message edited by author 2006-12-11 10:13:40.