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09/17/2003 06:23:20 AM · #1 |
This 2nd edition of my thread is possibly even more embarassing of the first one, when I rated low one of the ribbons. This time, to be politically correct, I rated low all of them..
HOW I VOTED FOR THE RIBBONS:
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BLUE RIBBON:
Dream of the past
MY VOTE: 5
COMMENT:
I just did not get it.. I could have given it an overall 7 for the composition but I could really not feel any Nostalgia looking at the pic and there are many pics on DPC which have been massacrated for being felt as off topic.
One example is in this thread too.
RED RIBBON:
The 1940's Roadside Diner
MY VOTE: 6
COMMENT:
Good picture and pretty strong feeling of Nostalgia. I gave it only a 6 because of the absence of any WOW effect.
YELLOW RIBBON:
Circa 1870
MY VOTE: 4
COMMENT:
I should apologize for this vote and I was going to apologize. In fact, the only reason why I rated it 4 is because I am very bored by this kind of subjects.
Then, when I was going to apologize for my vote.. I noticed the picture in 4th place.. and I concluded that I had my reasons to be bored... (BTW: Being precise as a Swiss clock, I rated 4 even the pic in 4th place).
WHERE MY BEST ATTENTION WENT:
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SPECIAL MENTION, MY WINNER:
19th Century Grain Threshing.
MY VOTE: 8
COMMENT:
The quality of this picture is self-commenting in my opinion. I feel it would have deserved the blue ribbon.
Yes, it ended 29 of 252 which, theoretically, isn't that bad but, to me, it shows a clear flaw in the rating system.
MOST UNDERRATED PICTURE:
In my hand...in my mind.
MY VOTE: 8
COMMENT:
This pic ended 171 out of 252, with an average of 4.790. It is a classic example of a pic which is too good to be understood by the masses.
UNDERRATED PICTURE:
57 Chevy Watch...A Blast From The Past.
MY VOTE: 8
COMMENT:
Another good pic that, in my opinion, ended up with less than it deserved.
EDITED TO CORRECT THE MESS I DID WITH URLs
Message edited by author 2003-09-17 06:30:09.
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09/17/2003 06:44:15 AM · #2 |
The ribbon winners were well taken, evocative shots but Numbers 1 and 3 were not necessarily nostalgia to me. Nostalgia for me is when you feel warmly wistful remembering a thing, a time, a person or place. The Diner shot kind of does that.
Your 2nd place choice is to me a reference to an 'old flame' and captures the concept better than the others. However, as a shot in itself there's not much to hold attention for long - unlike the real winners.
As I mentioned in a previous thread, this challenge was going to be The Past all over agin. It was, to a large degree uninspiring stuff. Of course, there were lovely shots but nostalgia is subjective, and in order to grasp some of the shots one has to project one's self into that scenario to fully appreciate them.
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09/17/2003 06:49:00 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
Your 2nd place choice is to me a reference to an 'old flame' and captures the concept better than the others. However, as a shot in itself there's not much to hold attention for long - unlike the real winners.
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Jon, to be precise, it is not my second place but "THE MOST UNDERRATED PICTURE". =)
Excuse me but, I have the impression that you judged the pic by the thumbnail, did you open it up?
I think there is in it much more to hold attention than in most of the pics which got a better rating. (BTW: it ended 171 out of 252!)
Message edited by author 2003-09-17 06:50:01.
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09/17/2003 07:20:04 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Excuse me but, I have the impression that you judged the pic by the thumbnail, did you open it up? |
Yes! I like it, but beyond the concept there isn't much more to it, cosmetically at least. |
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09/17/2003 07:51:43 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
This pic ended 171 out of 252, with an average of 4.790. It is a classic example of a pic which is too good to be understood by the masses. |
It was obviously too good to be understood by me. Please explain.. |
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09/17/2003 08:03:51 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by glimpses:
This pic ended 171 out of 252, with an average of 4.790. It is a classic example of a pic which is too good to be understood by the masses. |
It was obviously too good to be understood by me. Please explain.. |
Shall I have to keep my opinion for myself to avoid offeding somebody?
Sorry.. but as long as they are reasonable and honest opinions, I will not.
This picture is technically well done far beyond the average of pic submitted to the challenge.
Regarding the topic, the pic shows the hand of somebody ligthening a candle for somebody (or something) who he/she is missing then is, possibly, one of the pics who best adhere to the topic challenge.
However, mine is not an explanation: it is an opinion. Of course you are entitled to keep your and, remember, if you feel offended without being a just cause it is your matter, not mine.
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09/17/2003 09:05:48 AM · #7 |
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09/17/2003 09:48:32 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Shall I have to keep my opinion for myself to avoid offeding somebody?
Sorry.. but as long as they are reasonable and honest opinions, I will not. |
I wasn't complaining about your opinion; simply asking for more insight. I also wasn't suggesting the pic was good or bad. I think making a sweeping statement of "too good to be understood by the masses" deserves some justification.
Originally posted by glimpses:
However, mine is not an explanation: it is an opinion. Of course you are entitled to keep your and, remember, if you feel offended without being a just cause it is your matter, not mine. |
Nowhere in my reply did I produce a positive or negative opinion.
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Edited to fix quote problem.
Message edited by author 2003-09-17 09:49:08. |
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09/17/2003 10:09:13 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
I wasn't complaining about your opinion; simply asking for more insight. I also wasn't suggesting the pic was good or bad. I think making a sweeping statement of "too good to be understood by the masses" deserves some justification.
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I know.. it is a bit of a racist statement. Well, you know what.. I think all of us are racist somehow and I feel that racism (always a problem) of which you are aware is less dangerous than the unaware version of it.
My major problem/concern is about the current voting system.
I have the impression that it really doesn't work well like as it should.
I don't care if a better voting system would give me one million of ribbons or two billion of 1s.
I just would like to see the best 30 or 40 pics on top and that, IMO, is not happening.
Maybe I am real wrong because the problem does not have a solution, but you can bet that I will try my shot at it. =)
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09/17/2003 10:15:46 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by glimpse:
sMy major problem/concern is about the current voting system.
I have the impression that it really doesn't work well like as it should.
I don't care if a better voting system would give me one million of ribbons or two billion of 1s.
I just would like to see the best 30 or 40 pics on top and that, IMO, is not happening. |
Woo, a million ribbons, maybe I'll get one. ;-)
The problem is, if I want my top 30 pics too, what happens if we don't agree! With only two people, any kind of concensus on what should be top has been completely blown out of the water.
Originally posted by glimpse:
Maybe I am real wrong because the problem does not have a solution, but you can bet that I will try my shot at it. =) |
Just as long as I get my ribbons. ;-))) |
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09/17/2003 10:22:19 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
I wasn't complaining about your opinion; simply asking for more insight. I also wasn't suggesting the pic was good or bad. I think making a sweeping statement of "too good to be understood by the masses" deserves some justification.
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I know.. it is a bit of a racist statement. Well, you know what.. I think all of us are racist somehow and I feel that racism (always a problem) of which you are aware is less dangerous than the unaware version of it.
My major problem/concern is about the current voting system.
I have the impression that it really doesn't work well like as it should.
I don't care if a better voting system would give me one million of ribbons or two billion of 1s.
I just would like to see the best 30 or 40 pics on top and that, IMO, is not happening.
Maybe I am real wrong because the problem does not have a solution, but you can bet that I will try my shot at it. =) |
The implication from your posts is kinda offensive to those who place in the top 30, you realise ? Like all voting systems, the most popular pictures finish at the top. That's all dpc is really, a popularity contest. |
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09/17/2003 10:25:34 AM · #12 |
maybe the 'Top 3' is too few? Especially with hundreds of entrants.
Thoughts?
Message edited by author 2003-09-17 10:25:48.
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09/17/2003 10:35:16 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
The implication from your posts is kinda offensive to those who place in the top 30, you realise ? Like all voting systems, the most popular pictures finish at the top. That's all dpc is really, a popularity contest. |
Maybe you are right, in which case I will apologize deeply and sincerely.
However, before arriving to that point, I must explain you how and to what extent I had my toughts.
The way you interpreted it is likely if I said that the first 30/40 pics should be replaced by other 30/40 pics, which definitely is not my idea.
I came to this conclusion via a simple, evolutive process.
At the very beginning, as nearly anybody else around here, I tought that some of my own pic were "robbed".
But I don't like to tell stories to myself so I tought, are you sure you were robbed? Look around and see if there is some other pic which has been "robbed" worse than yours.
Well, the outcome of this analysis it was very positive to me because I ended up with a much more critique view of my own photography and, by far, a reduced feeling of being robbed.
Unfortunately, even if I lost the feeling that some of my pics were "robbed", I did acquire the feeling the somebody else pics were "robbed".
Not many of them, maybe 4 or 5, each challenge. But still quite a great "robbery" in my views.
Now.. to say that there are 4 or 5 unlucky pics which get "robbed" every Open Challenge (which have 200 to 300 pics every time) is not insulting the top 30, is it?
Edited to correct my typos
Message edited by author 2003-09-17 10:36:26.
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09/17/2003 10:42:55 AM · #14 |
You may not be interested but for my opinion on why this thread is "kinda offensive to those who place in the top 30" (to steal Gordon's words) please read my recent post on Bobster's thread.
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09/17/2003 11:10:53 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
You may not be interested but for my opinion on why this thread is "kinda offensive to those who place in the top 30" (to steal Gordon's words) please read my recent post on Bobster's thread. |
I agree with you Kavey.. it should not be said that a picture "deserved more", but if you feel like that and your feeling is pretty strong well...
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09/17/2003 11:14:15 AM · #16 |
A small RANT!
I for one was in the top 30 (12th) and I for one am NOT offended (maybe a little ;)
I also understand and agree with the points raised, but my feelings come from (or should I say anger) come when some dumb ass rates a perfectly good photograph a lonley figure 1!
This is annoying for everyone, but in a democratic society, what can we do?
It's obviously the blind or the stupid (or more likely the jealous) that vote such images a one, and this just buggers up the equation.
The only way around this (and it's something I woudl love to see) is a splinter group breaking away and creating challenges that are marked by a select committie of photographers whom show a great deal of experience - skill - and appreciation of good photography.
Art is subjective, that's what makes this site so enjoyable, but a monthly 'gold' competition would be something worth winning.
End of Rant...
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09/17/2003 11:14:58 AM · #17 |
Erm. I'm not trying to be confrontational but IMO stating that an entry was "robbed" is exactly the same as saying it deserved to get ranked higher.
It's all about semantics but the way people phrase things really does reveal a lot about the nuances of their thoughts. |
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09/17/2003 11:19:47 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Erm. I'm not trying to be confrontational but IMO stating that an entry was "robbed" is exactly the same as saying it deserved to get ranked higher.
It's all about semantics but the way people phrase things really does reveal a lot about the nuances of their thoughts. |
Yes, it is the same. That's why I answered that way in my previous post. =)
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09/17/2003 12:05:39 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
A small RANT!
I for one was in the top 30 (12th) and I for one am NOT offended (maybe a little ;)
I also understand and agree with the points raised, but my feelings come from (or should I say anger) come when some dumb ass rates a perfectly good photograph a lonley figure 1!
This is annoying for everyone, but in a democratic society, what can we do?
It's obviously the blind or the stupid (or more likely the jealous) that vote such images a one, and this just buggers up the equation.
The only way around this (and it's something I woudl love to see) is a splinter group breaking away and creating challenges that are marked by a select committie of photographers whom show a great deal of experience - skill - and appreciation of good photography.
Art is subjective, that's what makes this site so enjoyable, but a monthly 'gold' competition would be something worth winning.
End of Rant... |
Yes. I share this view. |
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09/17/2003 12:14:42 PM · #20 |
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09/17/2003 12:16:44 PM · #21 |
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09/17/2003 12:43:56 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
maybe the 'Top 3' is too few? Especially with hundreds of entrants.
Thoughts? |
Maybe the problem is too many entries, not too few highlighted top-scorers. |
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09/17/2003 12:49:10 PM · #23 |
yeah but no one seems to want to take the step of breaking the challenges into smaller groups. so the other approach may be to recognize more entries..
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
maybe the 'Top 3' is too few? Especially with hundreds of entrants.
Thoughts? |
Maybe the problem is too many entries, not too few highlighted top-scorers. |
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09/17/2003 12:56:51 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
The ribbon winners were well taken, evocative shots but Numbers 1 and 3 were not necessarily nostalgia to me. Nostalgia for me is when you feel warmly wistful remembering a thing, a time, a person or place. The Diner shot kind of does that. |
I don't see how you can say that #2 worked, but not 1 or 3. My guess is that you've been to a diner, but not the other two place? In #1 I saw a girl perhaps returning to where she grew up; in #3 I saw a type of lifestyle that makes the viewer feel removed from the present. |
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09/17/2003 01:33:42 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by irockstars:
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
The ribbon winners were well taken, evocative shots but Numbers 1 and 3 were not necessarily nostalgia to me. Nostalgia for me is when you feel warmly wistful remembering a thing, a time, a person or place. The Diner shot kind of does that. |
I don't see how you can say that #2 worked, but not 1 or 3. My guess is that you've been to a diner, but not the other two place? In #1 I saw a girl perhaps returning to where she grew up; in #3 I saw a type of lifestyle that makes the viewer feel removed from the present. |
I suppose that's the problem with this kind of subject. When you have a short amount of time to vote I tend to go for those which grab me. I have been to a diner but I don't think wistfully about the experience! I've also been to a mill and some dusty landscapes, but I didn't spend formative years at either place.
No. 1 did but it didn't hit me as on-the-button for the challenge, while I really like the shot. Quite honestly you could take a beautiful shot of anywhere in the world for this challenge and call it nostalgic - just because it probably means something to someone.
I felt that nostalgia in tis challenge should convey something of the photographer's character in the shot to make it more interesting. Landscapes are therefore require less imagination than other shots to clearly present nostalgia to a stranger.
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