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08/23/2003 07:17:09 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Calvus:
Edit:
I think some are forgeting that it is not the vehicle that kills it is the driver!
Calvus |
I think the evidence shows otherwise. In otherwise identical crashes, you are more likely to be killed if the vehicle which hits you is an SUV than if it's a sedan or (mini)van. The skill or motivation of the other driver becomes irrelevant at the moment of impact.
The analogous argument, "guns don't kill people, people do" might make a good sound bite, but would you prefer to try and survive an attack from someone with a .44 Magnum or an Uzi, or someone going after you with a BB gun?
The only real argument I can see for most people wanting SUVs is to so they can survive being hit by another SUV. Yet, a simple parking lot bump will cause $1-2000 damage to the "bumpers" of the typical American car ... some "protection."
Message edited by author 2003-08-23 19:17:24. |
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08/23/2003 08:38:10 PM · #27 |
very good argument general. i agree w/ your first paragraph, and think it is spot on...i disagree however, using a gun anology in this instance at all - i know you were merely replying in context...but still...
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08/23/2003 08:40:33 PM · #28 |
Not all people that drive SUVs are dangerous idiots with low self esteems... But most dangerous idiots with low self esteems drive SUVs
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08/23/2003 08:46:32 PM · #29 |
IMO most dangerous idiots drive honda civics with a folgers can for a muffler and think that a 3 foot wing and stickers improve horsepower!!!!!
I've seen many more fast and the furious wanna be's more of a menace than suv drivers! :)
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08/23/2003 09:12:35 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think the evidence shows otherwise. In otherwise identical crashes, you are more likely to be killed if the vehicle which hits you is an SUV than if it's a sedan or (mini)van. The skill or motivation of the other driver becomes irrelevant at the moment of impact. |
Yes the size and weight of the vehicle is going to play a key factor in a crash. But I still maintain it is the skill of the driver that is going to prevent most crashes to begin with. And second is the safety design put into the vehicles.
What you say can be said of Suburbans and 18 wheelers also. Do we pull all of them off the road? Drivers of 18 wheelers are suppose to be professionals, but I have seen a lot of them drive like maniacs.
The 18 wheelers drive the metropolitan highways in the morning doing 60 and 70 and then can't stop when they reach a traffic jam. I have seen several people killed in the Dallas area because of 18 wheelers and the way they drive. But we can not pull them off the highway because they are to big a part of the supply chain unfortunately.
So where do you draw the line?
I think it all boils down to the "driver".
Not everyone can drive a VW Beetle.
Calvus
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08/23/2003 09:54:57 PM · #31 |
I drive a BIG Dodge truck, I dont feel bad.
1. I drive sanely.
2. I dont feel bad about the gas mileage, I take the bus to work.
3. At 6'2" I fit in it!
4. I'm safer when the LOW rider Honda driving like an @#&* cuts me off.
Drivers do kill, not cars. I've never heard of a parked vehical hurting anyone!
So please dont generalize and stick me in a catagory because of WHAT I drive, do it by HOW I drive!
Thank You.
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08/23/2003 10:17:23 PM · #32 |
So what is the consensus of this thread? EOS 10D or D100? Or does it just matter what kind of lenses I already have?
Oh dang! Wrong thread
Message edited by author 2003-08-23 22:17:40.
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08/23/2003 11:02:22 PM · #33 |
I commute 55 miles on the freeway each way here in West Michigan. In winter I see more SUV's in the ditch rubber side up than any other type of vehicle. I also see SUV's blow by me going 65-70 mph when the roads are iced over, many times this leads to them being in the ditch rubber side up.
I pulled over when I saw one guy lose it in his SUV when it was icy, snowing and blowing like hell and he had just blown by me going WAY WAY to fast. He had climbed out and was standing waist deep in the snow, pondering the bottom of his now inverted vehicle. I checked to make sure he was unhurt and called 911 for him, made sure to tell the operator he had been driving too fast. I think he wanted to get in my car, thought I was going to wait with him. I told him that in the future he shouldn't drive like such an *&$^$@#@*, he might save himself some grief. I rolled up my window and went on my way.
All that aside, I don't believe it's the vehicle, it's the operator. I have seen idiots driving 18-wheelers, itty-bitty Ford Festivas and everything in between. I just pray that when they wipe out and put it in the ditch that they don't take me or someone else out with them.
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08/23/2003 11:38:52 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Large number of SUV drivers drive like maniacs on the US roads,they think SUV gives them freedom to go anywhere and do anything! |
Dang Pitsaman, you started this where did you go?
According to Dictionary.com
SUV = sport-u·til·i·ty vehicle (spôrty-tl-t, sprt-)
n. Abbr. SUV
A four-wheel-drive vehicle with a roomy body, designed for off-road travel.
I drive a GMC Jimmy, it is 2 wheel drive and is therefor according to dictionary.com not a SUV.
But the opinions I have expressed remain the same.
LOL
Calvus |
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08/24/2003 12:35:03 AM · #35 |
From //www.poseur.4x4.org:
The SUV Safety Myth
Most people think that the hefty weight and sheer mass of SUVs benefits their safety. This is a total myth. My point is not that SUVs are so unsafe that they should be banned, but that safety is not a reason in favor of buying an SUV. SUVs are not as safe as cars for the following reasons:
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Accident Avoidance Maneuvers
Most SUVs are tall and heavy for their size. Their portly weight and a high center of gravity are not condusive to handling around obstacles or other accident avoidance manuevers. An SUV's roadholding and acceleration figures are always inferior compared to a similarly sized/engined car.
This means that the SUV is much less adept at avoiding accidents, which of course is the best means of preventing injury. Some SUV drivers have responded by claiming that it is not so much the vehicle you drive, but the abilities of the driver that truly matter for safety. This is partly true, but even the best driver can be unsafe if he doesn't have the right equipment.
For example, say Michael Jordan decided to wear dress loafers on the court instead of his usual basketball shoes. He could still play, but he would be severely handicapped in his movement. The loafers would probably cost him the game. Likewise, cars are designed solely for on-road use, while almost all SUVs are not. Cars are best designed to handle whatever problems come your way on today's crowded roads.
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08/24/2003 12:36:11 AM · #36 |
Again, from //www.poseur.4x4.org:
Roll Overs
I know everyone is tired of hearing about SUV rollovers from the mass media and consumer magazines, but the fact is that SUVs roll twice as often as cars do according to NHSTA (National Highway Safety and Traffic Association) statistics. How can a supposedly "safe" vehicle generate these numbers?
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08/24/2003 12:37:59 AM · #37 |
And more from poseur.4x4.org:
Braking Distance
Everyone knows that the most important part of a vehicle is its brakes, and almost all SUVs fall short. In panic stop situations, every foot counts. The stopping distances of these porkers are lengthened by their excessive weight and primitive brakes. The poor lemmings can't stop fast enough to avoid falling off cliffs!
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08/24/2003 01:09:21 AM · #38 |
I want an SUV.
But seriously, I see way too many SUV's cutting in and out of traffic. It's as thought the driver thinks the size gives control. "Who's not going to let me cut in? I'll run them over." Really, their wieght robs them of precious braking while the large size is hazardous for tight maneuvering. |
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08/24/2003 03:55:38 AM · #39 |
My "SUV" (a Ford Explorer Sport Trac) weighs much less than a new Caddy and alot of cars, plus it has 4 wheel antilock brakes, posi-trac rear axle and 4 wheel drive (when the mountains call their name). I am pretty sure I stop shorter than the Caddy!
But then again, I don't care. I obey the traffic laws (does not guarantee against accidents, but decreases it), and speed limits. I have my 4 wheel "SUV" (do that because I prefer to call it a pickup), for my backroad excursions, mountain and desert roadtrips, and I live in CO (when it does snow) and like to get away from the crowds, and make it to work (ER-open 24/7/365, so I have to be there).
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08/24/2003 08:58:13 AM · #40 |
| Flips on a dime and needs 250 feet to stop from 60 to 0 ? |
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08/24/2003 09:34:55 AM · #41 |
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08/24/2003 09:52:11 AM · #42 |
Near as I can tell, there are two groups of people in this thread right now...
1 ~ People that think folks that drive Hummers 85mph on their 30 mile commute in a city that never drops below 60 degrees F with a cell phone in one hand and a latte in the other are needlessly placing the lives of others, (and the planet in general) in danger...
and...
2 ~ People that live up to their waists in snow 6 months out of the year that think the 'damn liberal environmental extremists' are trying to take away the only mode of transportation that works where they live.
I'd recommend that both groups take a step back, a deep breath, and read what the other group is saying... I think both groups will come to realize that everyone here agrees with eachother :)
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08/24/2003 12:19:02 PM · #43 |
I have a brand new Mercedes Benz ML-350E SUV and love it.
It has eight airbags and it drives like a car. The ML-350 meets many of the new pollution guidelines with the 6-cylinder engine. So, I can not agree with the negative comments in this thread concerning all SUVs.
After driving for 30 years, without an accident, or a ticket in the past 20 years, I am not overly concerned about erratic driving or aggressive behaviour. So, what's the problem, besides the other guy on the road? |
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08/24/2003 04:38:25 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by KevinRiggs:
So what is the consensus of this thread? EOS 10D or D100? Or does it just matter what kind of lenses I already have?
Oh dang! Wrong thread |
hahahah
personally it drives me nuts to see so many suvs around. i live in a pretty yuppie area and its mostly just the huge suvs with "soccer mom" drivers.
the only reason i'd ever get one is if i had a boat, for towing. |
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08/24/2003 05:41:15 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by annr:
Originally posted by KevinRiggs:
So what is the consensus of this thread? EOS 10D or D100? Or does it just matter what kind of lenses I already have?
Oh dang! Wrong thread |
hahahah
personally it drives me nuts to see so many suvs around. i live in a pretty yuppie area and its mostly just the huge suvs with "soccer mom" drivers.
the only reason i'd ever get one is if i had a boat, for towing. |
I was not overly keen to own a SUV either to be honest. But with two 75 lb. dogs, they were hell on the leather in my Cadillac STS, especially in the winter months. A truck or SUV allows us all to live in harmony, which is a good thing! Mud et al.
PS: I have a trailer hitch for the first time as well. I used it to pull out a tree stump. My Caddy would never have been used in that manner, so that is a good thing too. It saved me the cost of a tree guy to pull it for me.
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08/25/2003 12:58:31 AM · #46 |
I love my full size Chevy 4x4 PU. When I'm in the fast lane doing 80 MPH, a little Honda Accord better think twice about zipping into my lane in front of me because I *will* mow them down. ;) I notice that people generally tend to suddenly gain some "roadside respect" when a 2 1/2 ton American-made vechile is in their path.
But I've driven every make, size, and type of vehicle out there, and even owned a Geo Metro for several years. In the Metro I felt unsafe because of the small size and lack of power. Although it was great on gas and manuvering in the city, on the highway you feel like an ant and very vunerable. If you get in a head on accident in a Metro you are basically history.
The fact of the matter is, studies have shown that consumers are not interested in (or ready for) economy cars and hybryds, etc. They are too small and under-powered for most people. This is not my opinion but is a fact of consumer desires in what they want in a vehicle. I love politicans putting down "Gas guzzling SUVs" when they (some of them) travel to work each day in "gas-guzzling" limos. Seems a little hypocritical to me.
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08/25/2003 01:21:36 AM · #47 |
80? I'd love to see your 2 1/2 ton 4x4 catch my new 03 "little Honda Accord" EX V6 :)
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08/25/2003 02:13:33 AM · #48 |
[quote=ChrisW123]
The fact of the matter is, studies have shown that consumers are not interested in (or ready for) economy cars and hybryds, etc. They are too small and under-powered for most people. This is not my opinion but is a fact of consumer desires in what they want in a vehicle.
Chris, what studies are you referring to and who funded them? |
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08/25/2003 10:13:00 AM · #49 |
| Here in well-to-do suburbia, parents buy SUVs for their sixteen year olds "so they will be safe if/when they crash". |
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08/25/2003 07:36:48 PM · #50 |
| With the price of gas lately, I'm happy I don't have one. I got behind a guy at the gas station Saturday who spent $42.00 to fill up. Me, I filled up with $14.00. We'll probably both go the same distance on that same tank of gas. SUV's are a road hazzard because they obstruct the view of drivers of normal sized vehicles. I like to be able to see a few cars ahead but when I get one of those huge monsters in front of me, my ability to react to a problem up ahead is greatly diminished. You SUV drivers, have a little consideration for the little guy, ok? That said, if I could afford any car, I would want an SUV for my long trips. Now that so many huge cars are out there, my Sunday drives are less enjoyable so I would want a big, tall, vehicle so that I can see where I'm going. :) |
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