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02/07/2006 04:21:49 AM · #1 |
hey guys
I bought a ND4 filter and I would love to learn how to use it properly.. the effect i want it silky water.. just not sure how to do it. I went down to the beach tonight and had the hugest hassles cause I wasnt sure what i was doing. I tried using cable release, everything was either really blasted or very dull.
Any pointers or tips would be great. :)... please :)
Lisa |
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02/07/2006 04:31:05 AM · #2 |
The ND filter simply reduce light.
To get silky water, you need long exposures.
You can always try doing it by setting to the smallest aperture and lowest ISO to reduce light and reduce sensitivity on the sensor. BUT... Sometimes you wish to do it under bright light, that's when the ND filter comes into use, it "darkens" the scene for the sensor :)
as for shutter speed, I guess it depends on speed of the water primarily.
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02/07/2006 04:35:15 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by crayon:
The ND filter simply reduce light.
To get silky water, you need long exposures.
You can always try doing it by setting to the smallest aperture and lowest ISO to reduce light and reduce sensitivity on the sensor. BUT... Sometimes you wish to do it under bright light, that's when the ND filter comes into use, it "darkens" the scene for the sensor :)
as for shutter speed, I guess it depends on speed of the water primarily. |
i was using between 1 second and 2 seconds.. trying different amounts of time. The sky was either way too bright or it looked blurry. I am sure i am missing something really simple I just dont know what lol |
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02/07/2006 04:40:18 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by lentil:
i was using between 1 second and 2 seconds.. trying different amounts of time. The sky was either way too bright or it looked blurry. I am sure i am missing something really simple I just dont know what lol |
did you try something in between 1s and 2s?
I know that even 1/30 and 1/50 makes a difference :)
here's an example (Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO, do not start a thread about me using without asking :p )
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 04:42:29. |
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02/07/2006 04:44:07 AM · #5 |
For ideas, check out the submissions for the Long Exposure challenge. Look at some of the photos with the effect you wish to achieve, and then look at the settings they used. ND filter is not exactly a must-need item, but very helpful as it allow you to do, maybe, 1 or 2 stops more :)
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 04:44:39. |
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02/07/2006 04:45:23 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by crayon:
[quote=lentil]
did you try something in between 1s and 2s?
I know that even 1/30 and 1/50 makes a difference :)
here's an example (Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO, do not start a thread about me using without asking :p )
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yeah i started at one second, then went up in little amounts. THis is the type of photograph i want to do. |
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02/07/2006 04:48:28 AM · #7 |
like this.. this is what i like
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02/07/2006 04:55:28 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by lentil:
like this.. this is what i like
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From the descriptions, I think he is using 2 ND filters!
I got these from the photographer's descriptions:
Aperture: 22
ISO: 200
Shutter: 20 sec
Focal length 18 mm. Cokin circular polarizer, 1-stop and 3-stop neutral density filters. Aperture priority, matrix metering, +1.3EV exposure compensation, tripod, remote control. |
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02/07/2006 04:57:30 AM · #9 |
yeah i read that..
what i didnt get was it says 20second exposure. I did 2 and they whole photo was white. I am obviously doing something very wrong. hmmm |
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02/07/2006 04:57:45 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by lentil:
here's an example (Disclaimer: NOT MY PHOTO, do not start a thread about me using without asking :p )
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SJCarter's shot was taken quite late in the day when the light would really have been quite soft.
My own shot was taken at 6 in a Japanese autumn evening just after sunset. At times like this, you don't really need an ND filter.
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02/07/2006 04:59:58 AM · #11 |
so should i go later in the day or it doesnt really matter?
That is a great photo by the way
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02/07/2006 05:04:18 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by lentil:
so should i go later in the day or it doesnt really matter? |
It matters, that's what I meant on the shutter speeds. It depends on the light at the moment. If its cloudy, even better. Look at the example shot, it was taken at F22, coupled with 1-stop and 3-stop filters, so the amount of light actually reaching the sensor is very little, and that explains why he could use such a long shutter speed. |
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02/07/2006 05:09:42 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by lentil:
so should i go later in the day or it doesnt really matter? |
It matters, that's what I meant on the shutter speeds. It depends on the light at the moment. If its cloudy, even better. Look at the example shot, it was taken at F22, coupled with 1-stop and 3-stop filters, so the amount of light actually reaching the sensor is very little, and that explains why he could use such a long shutter speed. |
I'll agree with you most of the way. But I'll add that it isn't just the quantity of light, its quality is also important. Evening works well in many ways. A cloudy midday is, of course, a nice option, too. |
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02/07/2006 06:32:17 AM · #14 |
Here's an example - taken at dawn so the light levels were already low. I stacked several ND filters in order to get between 8 and 15 seconds exposure at f22 (I think), ISO 100.
Tripod and of course a cable release were also used.
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02/07/2006 06:53:47 AM · #15 |
If you want to get something like this. Mount Camera on Tripod or find somewhere to put your camera to remain still (for the above shot I used the bridge railings),Set your camera to timer or use a remote cable, Install your ND filter, Set your camera to shutter priority with a long exposure, This will help get you the long exposure that you want to achieve the effect while helping you not to over/under expose your shot. After you get better at it you can do it completly manually. |
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02/07/2006 07:39:37 AM · #16 |
In a few words a neutral density filter reduces the light coming into the camera for these main purposes:
1-Allow capture of an image in very bright conditions without over exposure.
2-Allow use of a wider aperture for a narrower depth of field giving softer backgrounds.
3-Allow use of longer exposure times to capture a greater amount of motion blur.
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02/07/2006 09:14:06 AM · #17 |
Making a lake (which is relatively still) be silky requires a lot longer exposure than a fast moving river or stream. An ND4 is only four stops of light - which is a lot - but it probably isn't enough to get an extremely silky look at midday. Using a polarizer is also a good trick because it darkens the sky while only removing reflections from the water.
To get a silky lake, you may have to shoot after sunset. The ocean will blur out pretty quickly if it's a normal evening, but don't be surprised if you have to wait until 15 or more seconds of exposure can happen before you get the look you want. |
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02/07/2006 10:19:30 AM · #18 |
Don't forget to make sure your iso is at its lowest setting, 100 for your camera. And a tripod!
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02/07/2006 11:13:31 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by lentil:
yeah i read that..
what i didnt get was it says 20second exposure. I did 2 and they whole photo was white. I am obviously doing something very wrong. hmmm |
you probably put your camera in shutter speed priority mode, and when you used a long exposure it automatically opened up the diaphragm. you should use full manual mode and set long exposure AND the smallest aperture (highest f-number) available on your camera.
The time of day matters a lot, of course. In this recent shot
I got away without an ND filter (still don't have one for my kit lens :)) with a 6s exposure at f/22 because it was starting to get dark.
Message edited by author 2006-02-07 11:15:13.
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02/07/2006 11:30:24 AM · #20 |
Here is the answer to your problems. An ND4 filter is NOT 4-stops of light. it is one stop. Don't ask me why they label them like this. I have an ND8 and it's two stops. You need to shoot at dawn or dusk and at ISO 100 with f/22. If you have a polarizer stack that as well as it blocks 2 more stops.
This was done with 4-stops of blockage (2 stop filter with a 2 stop polarizer) at 4 seconds 15-20 minutes after sunrise, but before the sun was visible at this location. |
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02/07/2006 11:31:35 AM · #21 |
| On rare occasion I have used two linear polarizers stacked. This provides a continuously variable density filter that can be adjusted to suit the situation, from about 40% transmission to as little as 1% transmission. |
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02/07/2006 02:17:18 PM · #22 |
thank you all for your replies.
I will try again with this knowledge and see how i go.
Lisa :) |
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02/07/2006 03:18:58 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by ElGordo:
On rare occasion I have used two linear polarizers stacked. This provides a continuously variable density filter that can be adjusted to suit the situation, from about 40% transmission to as little as 1% transmission. |
This is a very convenient way to get an adjustable ND filter, and you can get over 6 stops of light reduction out of it. In some cases, though, you do need much more than 6 stops; in bright daylight where exposures of one second are desired, 10 stops can be needed.
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02/07/2006 03:20:32 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Here is the answer to your problems. An ND4 filter is NOT 4-stops of light. it is one stop. Don't ask me why they label them like this. I have an ND8 and it's two stops. |
Actually an ND4 is two stops, and an ND8 is three. The 4 and 8 refer to 4x and 8x reduction, and a 2x reduction is one stop.
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02/07/2006 03:32:23 PM · #25 |
ok.. basic instruction is what i need
1. put filter on camera
2. set camera to.........(what mode)
3. exposure/aperature .......?
I know i am a pain and for that i am sorry. |
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