Grading on the Curve - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

12/08/2005 12:06:52 PM · #1

In case anyone wonders whether voters "grade on the curve" or not:

just over 7.0 in "High Contrast", DQ on date stamp error

just shy of 6.7 in "Your Corner of the World"

6.4 in "Landscape III"

6.25 in the just-finished "Free Study IX"

If I ran these 4 pictures in my own mini-challenge, how would you rank them against each other?

Robt.

pidge

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

12/08/2005 12:10:11 PM · #2

They're all A+'s in my grade book :)

Edit to add: Personal favorite is the High Contrast entry. I like the boat in it, for some reason...

Message edited by author 2005-12-08 12:12:07.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

12/08/2005 12:10:13 PM · #3

Hi Robert. I personally would vote the 'Your Corner.." entry highest of the four. To me its more environmental and less gratuitous landscape/water/sky shot. Just my 2 cents. :)

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

12/08/2005 12:18:55 PM · #4

OK, I'll play :)

IMO,
"High Contrast" would be 1, "Landscape III" #2, and a close 3rd and 4th between the two remaining, with "Free Study" slightly ahead, so it's #3, and "My corner" #4.

The high contrast picture has the best light and the most visual appeal, it really draws you in and makes you dream of being in a place such as that one; the boat is a good touch.

The landscape entry is the most "classic" of the four, it has beautiful light, but, to me at least, less appeal, there isn't as much to hold my attention there; but it is a classic. Also, the light is almost, just almost too contrasty.

The free study entry is a beautiful composition, thirds, sky and water, clouds and reflections, beautiful colours, but the light is not nearly as good IMO in that one as in the High Contrast entry. Maybe too direct. It also looks ever so slightly overprocessed (for example, there's a thin grey outline on the hills/trees to the right).

The fourth, "Summer's End", is technically fantastic: the colours are just right, rich and saturated but not too much, the sky is splendid, the water looks beautiful, the touch of red everywhere works great. But I think that it is not as strong a composition, at least not to my eyes. My eyes keep getting stuck on the grass blades that stick out at the bottom left, and then they get stuck in that little patch of water there, and I keep wondering, what if he would have moved just a bit to the right, about a foot or two.

Anyway, these are just opinions, OK?

12/08/2005 12:19:57 PM · #5

Do you mean relative to their respective themes, or independent of any theme? Assuming you mean the latter, I would rank them 2, 4, 1, 3. (That is, picture 2 first, 4 second, etc.)

I presume the "grading on the curve" question is: does the challenge effect the score? My own answer is "of course".

12/08/2005 12:20:56 PM · #6

Originally posted by idnic:

Hi Robert. I personally would vote the 'Your Corner.." entry highest of the four. To me its more environmental and less gratuitous landscape/water/sky shot. Just my 2 cents. :)

And here I thought only sex and violence could be gratuitous. :)

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

12/08/2005 01:10:40 PM · #7

My point is that the actual scores of the images, IMO, don't really reflect their relative merits. In other words, Free Study images, in competition with other very fine images, receive lower absolute scores than they would have in a "normal" challenge. I'm totally not complaining, btw, just making an observation. I believe my Free Study entry would have outscored my "landscape III" entry, for example, had it been entered in that challenge. Which, of course, it was not eligible for.

However, the following image is one I seriously considered entering in FS, but I went with the horizontal shot you see here becase this one so closely resembles my "Landscape III" entry, which was only a few weeks before, and I have become sensitive to peoples' disapproval of repetitive entries, even though they are sort of hard to avoid when your biggest joy in life is shooting outrageous sunsets and sunrises :-)

Robt.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

12/08/2005 01:20:41 PM · #8

How would I grade these against each other?

This is by far and away my favourite. In a real challenge, provided I felt it met the challenge theme, and I'm fairly open to loose interpretations, I'd probably give this an 8 or 9. I can't be exact as I use the top 3 scores to differentiate between the entries I like best in the challenge and since I'm comparing them to each other and effectively ranking them, it depends on how many entries there are that I like better. But an 8 or 9.

I'd give this a 7 or 8.

Same here, 7 or 8.

This one's only a 6 from me.

All nice pictures, I just connect more strongly with some than others.

12/08/2005 01:47:19 PM · #9

Originally posted by bear_music:

My point is that the actual scores of the images, IMO, don't really reflect their relative merits.

Of course not - different frames of reference. Relative merit within a challenge is going to be different to relative merit against one another. You're effectively removing one of the criteria of evaluation by comparing outside the framework of a challenge (other than free study of course). Or, adding a criteria by judging it inside a challenge - whichever way you want to look. Over the years that's been a subject of hot debate - there are those who believe that meeting the challenge should be completely disregarded in voting. I personally don't agree, but don't get bothered one way or the other by it any more. I give meeting the challenge less weight than I did when I first started here, but I still see it as relevent in our little world.

I've also always thought that ranking pictures outside the challenges based on their score within a challenge was a little meaningless, as in the "browse highest rated photos" page. While there certainly aren't any bad photos there, I think there are many that wouldn't be there if they were voted on amongst each other, outside of any challenge theme. (There's an interesting challenge - place the top 100 or 1000 or somewhere in between pictures in a head-to-head vote.)

Originally posted by bear_music:

However, the following image is one I seriously considered entering in FS, but I went with the horizontal shot you see here becase this one so closely resembles my "Landscape III" entry, which was only a few weeks before, and I have become sensitive to peoples' disapproval of repetitive entries, even though they are sort of hard to avoid when your biggest joy in life is shooting outrageous sunsets and sunrises :-)

Someone just started a thread on that a little while ago. Maybe they've got your number. :)

12/08/2005 01:51:23 PM · #10

Originally posted by ScottK:

I've also always thought that ranking pictures outside the challenges based on their score within a challenge was a little meaningless

Oh, I quite agree. My only point here was to show how the relative quality of entries in a challenge will affect raw scores. In case anyone wondered.

Robt.

12/08/2005 01:52:32 PM · #11

Originally posted by Kavey:

I can't be exact as I use the top 3 scores to differentiate between the entries I like best in the challenge and since I'm comparing them to each other and effectively ranking them, it depends on how many entries there are that I like better.

Now that's another intangible effect - How high a picture ranks will, by some people's voting patterns (including mine, so I'm not singling you out Kavey) raise a picture higher or push it down, depending on the field its being judged against.

tsheets

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/08/2005 03:08:02 PM · #12

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Kavey:
I can't be exact as I use the top 3 scores to differentiate between the entries I like best in the challenge and since I'm comparing them to each other and effectively ranking them, it depends on how many entries there are that I like better.

Now that's another intangible effect - How high a picture ranks will, by some people's voting patterns (including mine, so I'm not singling you out Kavey) raise a picture higher or push it down, depending on the field its being judged against.

In essence, grading on a curve, as the thread title suggests.

Also, just for fun, I agree with Scott's rankings earlier in the thread.

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED

12/08/2005 03:56:26 PM · #13

Really interesting to see all the takes on this.

The first one is my favorite by FAR. I would almost go as far as to say it's the only one I reallylike but I do like them all. That would be the one I would keep for my portfolio so it almost feels like putting the others in any order would be a completely arbitrary thing to do...but I'll try

I would put the free study one second as it is very nice without to many flaws but nothing truly unique or magical about it that would make me want to spend a long time letting my eyes wander and get lost.

The landscape challenge one might have beat the free study one if the shadows/highlights adjustments hadn't been so obvious in the sky. I like the perspective.

Your corner is last primarily because of the awkward patch of land in the left foreground but also because I feel the colors have been overdone a bit so that they look unnatural.

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED

12/08/2005 08:28:48 PM · #14

Originally posted by JPR:

The landscape challenge one might have beat the free study one if the shadows/highlights adjustments hadn't been so obvious in the sky. I like the perspective.

That's an interesting comment, in that the "Landscape III" entry is the only one that DOESN'T use shadow/highlight masking, being a basic challenge entry. Of the 4 posted, it's by far the least "adjusted". It's shot in RAW and processed at the lowest contrast available.

R.

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

12/08/2005 11:51:39 PM · #15

Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by JPR:
The landscape challenge one might have beat the free study one if the shadows/highlights adjustments hadn't been so obvious in the sky. I like the perspective.

That's an interesting comment, in that the "Landscape III" entry is the only one that DOESN'T use shadow/highlight masking, being a basic challenge entry. Of the 4 posted, it's by far the least "adjusted". It's shot in RAW and processed at the lowest contrast available.

R.

hmm. that is interesting indeed.
perhaps it is the low level of contrast that makes it look like a flat grey but I didn't think so because the rest of the image looked fine.

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

12/09/2005 12:34:21 AM · #16

Originally posted by bear_music:

... how would you rank them against each other?

Robt.

1) Summer's End — Sunrise
2) Sunset, Wellfleet — November 2005
3) Summer's End
4) November Sunset

Just my 2 cents.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8 L

12/09/2005 12:44:27 AM · #17

in the order you have them, i agree with the scores.

KiwiShotz

Panasonic DMC-FZ20

Panasonic DMW-LTZ10 1.5x Teleconverter

12/09/2005 03:17:50 AM · #18

Originally posted by ScottK:

And here I thought only sex and violence could be gratuitous. :)

Damn, does that mean we can't indulge in those any more? First they took away rape, pillage and plunder ... now this!

Brett

Message edited by author 2005-12-09 03:18:40.

chalice

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro IS USM

12/09/2005 03:57:49 AM · #19

For what it's worth, I'd rank them in the same order as Coolhar...with the first 3 substantially better than the final picture.

getnoutside

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM

12/09/2005 09:32:44 AM · #20

I would rank the first 3 nearly even and the last slightly lower.

Funny... I looked at your "Corner of the World" pic and thought, "Hey, that looks like MY corner of the world". Checked your profile and sure enough....